Does anyone else see the Saiyan saga as being special

[90sDBZ]

It's just the fact that it's the last time we really see all the main characters from DB involved in the main action. It's actually pretty emotional watching Yamcha, Tien, Krillin, Piccolo, Chiaotzu, and Gohan all standing side by side to defend the earth, like they've really got each others backs. Seeing them all struggle and many of them die heroically while they wait for Goku makes for a really dramatic battle. Chiaotzu's sacrifice and Tien's subsequent reaction really gets to me every time I watch it. And Piccolo's sacrifice is pretty emotional too.

This battle actually sort of reminds me of war movies where you see most of the cast get killed. The King Piccolo saga had a similarly bleak tone, but the Saiyan saga is really the only time you get to see the original Z team all stand side by side and fight at once (aside for a short battle with the Cell Jrs).

It makes me feel like Resurrection F would have been better off having Yamcha and/or Chiaotzu than Jaco. It would have been a great throwback.

[404FILENOTFOUND]

The Saiyan saga is my favorite saga in Z. You have the introduction of Gohan and Raditz. You see Piccolo and Goku team up with the foreshadowing of Gohan's potential. You get to explore the after life and introduced to new way of training and the kaio ken power up with the introduction of King Kai. Goku racing his way to Earth to defeat Nappa and Vegeta. If I was watching these episodes without having ANY knowledge of what was going to happen in Z I would have my heart racing from the brutality that Nappa brought, the guy more or less destroyed the defenders of Earth. Finally, you have the happy ending of Vegeta's defeat. Hell even Yajurobe had his two cents put in. With the addition of precious early Z art with late 80s anime animation <3

[Freeza Heika]

It is more transitional than special. It is just the culmination of the best parts of Dragonball before they are phased out and the best parts of Z before they took over. It really is wonderful.

[floofychan333]

I wish there had been more arcs with the original Z team before the Saiyans so we could've seen Piccolo being the only antihero for a while. Vegeta showing up made Piccolo get irrelevant far too quickly.

[FoolsGil]

I hate hate HATE the Saiyan Saga. All that training for nothing. Nappa inconsistiences. Yamcha, Tenshinhan, and Chaozu dropped like flies in the first 2 minutes but Krillin and Gohan survived by the skin of their teeth. It wasn't paced correctly, it was the worst written saga in all of Z, and if Yamcha wasn't a joke before the Saibaman, he was after.

The only good thing that came of it was Piccolo's subtle character development, which I wouldn't have caught if it wasn't for Gaffer Tape's dissection videos.

[TheAmericanDream]

What Nappa inconsistencies? He's slowly worn down and eventually defeated, character wise I feel he is consistent too, so not sure what you're referring to. The training also isn't for nothing if you're referring to the God training since two of the trainees: Kuririn and Yajirobe were immensely helpful in that arc (and Kuririn in the next arc). Admittedly the power creep is pretty crazy in both the Saiyan and Namek arcs in terms of just how much stronger our heroes get by the end of both arcs, it boggles the mind in a lot of ways.

I think the Saiyan arc is fantastic for reasons stated above by others here. I will say I don't think having more Saiyan arc era team moments would really work that well for Piccolo since it would take away from his development from straight villain to hero in the Saiyan arc. If it was more gradual like Vegeta's I don't think it would be as good?

The 23rd Budokai and Saiyan arcs are definitely my personal favorite era of our main characters though in terms of art style and being dynamic characters.

[FoolsGil]

What Nappa inconsistencies? He's slowly worn down and eventually defeated, character wise I feel he is consistent too, so not sure what you're referring to.

At some times in the fight he was faster, and more durable, like when he mopped the floor with Tenshinhan and Chaozu. Then suddenly, Krillin and Piccolo are able to perform solid hits on him that seemed to hurt more than the Kikoho and Self Destruct. The excuse made in story is that Nappa doesn't fight seriously or has trouble paying attention, being the only villain in the entire series whose abilities fluctuate so bad when he's not serious, giving him the excuse of why he was able to cause so much damage in the beginning, but couldn't finish off Krillin and Gohan or Piccolo. Oh and before Goku used his Kaioken, Vegeta spoke to Nappa that if he kept calm, he could take Goku. He was all over the place.

The training also isn't for nothing if you're referring to the God training since two of the trainees: Kuririn and Yajirobe were immensely helpful in that arc (and Kuririn in the next arc). Admittedly the power creep is pretty crazy in both the Saiyan and Namek arcs in terms of just how much stronger our heroes get by the end of both arcs, it boggles the mind in a lot of ways.

Tenshinhan, Chaozu, and Yamcha were trained too but weren't helpful at all. Krillin survived because of Nappa's inconsistencies, it wasn't the training that saved him or The others would have survived.

[PsionicWarrior]

I love the Saiyajin arc, rough but epic.

[ABED]

At some times in the fight he was faster, and more durable, like when he mopped the floor with Tenshinhan and Chaozu. Then suddenly, Krillin and Piccolo are able to perform solid hits on him that seemed to hurt more than the Kikoho and Self Destruct. The excuse made in story is that Nappa doesn't fight seriously or has trouble paying attention, being the only villain in the entire series whose abilities fluctuate so bad when he's not serious, giving him the excuse of why he was able to cause so much damage in the beginning, but couldn't finish off Krillin and Gohan or Piccolo. Oh and before Goku used his Kaioken, Vegeta spoke to Nappa that if he kept calm, he could take Goku. He was all over the place.

Piccolo is much stronger than either Tenshinhan and Chaozu, not to mention Tenshinhan was exhausted. Nappa's biggest flaw is he is that he likes to draw things out and he lacks focus. He didn't finish them off because he wasn't trying. Sure, Vegeta says Nappa could defeat Goku but he doesn't know that for certain. Even without the Kaio-ken, he couldn't have defeated Goku.

[TheMikado]

The excuse made in story is that Nappa doesn't fight seriously or has trouble paying attention, being the only villain in the entire series whose abilities fluctuate so bad when he's not serious, giving him the excuse of why he was able to cause so much damage in the beginning, but couldn't finish off Krillin and Gohan or Piccolo.

This sounds like the exact same criticism against Goku every fight. Anyway, it was fantastic. The dragonballs were already fairly limited and legendary, but when Piccolo died it gave you a realization that oh crap there are legit consequences and more than that you realize that had Piccolo died via Raditz they all would be toast. I love that even after a year they Z warriors were not suddenly more powerful than some interstellar entities they had no concept of. It really was great. They had no real info, no Intel or what to prepare for. They pretty much didn't know how or what to train for but did their best AND STILL lost! It really was great and made the stakes like 100x higher. Really loved it it as a kick off to the DBZ series.

[FoolsGil]

Piccolo is much stronger than either Tenshinhan and Chaozu, not to mention Tenshinhan was exhausted.

Tenshinhan's exhaustion doesn't explain how Krillin doing physical damage against Nappa hurts more than the Kikoho

Nappa's biggest flaw is he is that he likes to draw things out and he lacks focus. He didn't finish them off because he wasn't trying. Sure, Vegeta says Nappa could defeat Goku but he doesn't know that for certain. Even without the Kaio-ken, he couldn't have defeated Goku.

That is...what I said. The only villain in the series who actually gets sufficiently damaged because he doesn't take things seriously. And whether Nappa could defeat Goku without Kaioken doesn't matter. The fact that Vegeta was trying to coach him matters. Hence, he's all over the place if Vegeta believes there is a chance, no matter minuscule of Nappa winning.

[ABED]

Piccolo is much stronger than either Tenshinhan and Chaozu, not to mention Tenshinhan was exhausted.

Tenshinhan's exhaustion doesn't explain how Krillin doing physical damage against Nappa hurts more than the Kikoho

Nappa's biggest flaw is he is that he likes to draw things out and he lacks focus. He didn't finish them off because he wasn't trying. Sure, Vegeta says Nappa could defeat Goku but he doesn't know that for certain. Even without the Kaio-ken, he couldn't have defeated Goku.

That is...what I said. The only villain in the series who actually gets sufficiently damaged because he doesn't take things seriously. And whether Nappa could defeat Goku without Kaioken doesn't matter. The fact that Vegeta was trying to coach him matters. Hence, he's all over the place if Vegeta believes there is a chance, no matter minuscule of Nappa winning.

When did Kuririn hurt Nappa more than Tenshinhan other than the Kienzan? Nappa's damage until Goku arrives was superficial at best. They got good punches, but it was no more than a momentary daze. Nappa was taken off guard unlike the Kikoho which he saw and then tensed up. And Chaozu is a weakling.

Nappa isn't all over the place if Vegeta believes it. He's under the mistaken belief that Goku isn't as strong as Nappa. Vegeta doesn't know how strong Goku was even without the Kaio-ken. And that wasn't what you said.

[ShadowBardock89]

I love the Goku vs. Vegeta fight as it is one of the most iconic anime battles of all time. It's a shame its sequel was not nearly as good.

[precita]

Its surprising how much weaker Piccolo was than Nappa. It would have been nice to see him put up much more of a fight than the humans, especially since his power shoots up with the Saiyans over the course of the series.

[Netter75]

I hate hate HATE the Saiyan Saga. All that training for nothing. Nappa inconsistiences. Yamcha, Tenshinhan, and Chaozu dropped like flies in the first 2 minutes but Krillin and Gohan survived by the skin of their teeth. It wasn't paced correctly, it was the worst written saga in all of Z, and if Yamcha wasn't a joke before the Saibaman, he was after.

The only good thing that came of it was Piccolo's subtle character development, which I wouldn't have caught if it wasn't for Gaffer Tape's dissection videos.

I sort of get what you're saying here. Yamcha, Tien, and Chiaotzu all appear to be wasted in this saga here until you look at the events from a storytelling perspective. Tracking those three down, watching everyone train, listening to all the fighters act so confident before the fight, only to have that portion of them drop like flies really gives the "Okay, s**t just got real" vibe to the Saiyan fight. Their deaths are made even more effective because they are given some pretty heavy emotional impact. The reactions of Puar, Bulma, and Krillin to Yamcha's sudden death get me every time. Chiaotzu's sacrifice is incredibly dramatic and sad, leading to an even more emotional one by Tien. Think about what the fight would seem like if all three of these guys were excised: it would be nowhere near as tense; the stakes would not be as high because Nappa and Vegeta would not seem AS threatening. It really does create a feeling of bleakness for the remaining heroes.

However it is completely true that all this does come at an expense to their characters. In canon this really is Yamcha's last great moment, and one of Chiaotzu's last moments AT ALL, causing both of these guys to get ridiculed pretty harshly by the fan-base as a result of their performances in the fight. The plot also progresses without these three while they are dead, so by the time they are finally brought back to life the story has no more room for them (...or Toriyama can't think of a creative utilization for them, but that's another topic). This forces them into the blob of other now-superfluous supporting characters like Puar and Oolong.

So I definitely don't hate the Saiyan Saga. It's my favorite of Z actually, and part of that is due to the first half of the Saiyan battle with Nappa. What happened to the roles of the humans is something to be debated of the LATER seasons more-so than here IMO, as there they served little use either emotionally or to the plot. You could remove all three and, barring some minor changes to the writing, little would change. In the Saiyan saga they are essential to the functionality of the story.

[Lionel]

It was the one arc that at least pretended to have any tactical ingenuity inserted into the fighting. Every arc afterwards maybe has a stint here and there like Goku's torpedo Kamehameha, but generally it all became about predictable one on one power struggles with no one else accomplishing anything that was very substantial. The Saiyan arc also proved to me that teamwork could be a thing in DB when Toriyama wants to write for it.

[Majin Jator]

Back in the day, The Saiyan Saga surprised me for the absolute lack of DB's humor, and how demeaning it was for most of the cast. Chaotzu and Tien sacrifices were the worst part (and I wasn't a fan of any of those), giving their lifes for nothing. If at least the others warriors could have said something like, well, that has weakened him, now we have a chance. But no, they die for nothing.

I wondered if a third saiyan, someone to be defeated thanks to one of those sacrifices (or Piccolo having the upper hand against someone) would have made the saga more appealing to me and for others who felt the same way.

[90sDBZ]

It's worth mentioning that if it weren't for Yamcha, Tien and Chiaotzu's involvement everyone else would have died before Goku got there instead, and it's very unlikely that there'd be any journey to Namek by any of the good guys. Their training wasn't for nothing because it bought that all important time.

Another thing I like about this saga is how the battle is literally everyone improvising throughout, with Goku passing the Spirit Bomb to Krillin, Gohan bouncing it back, and then Gohan going ape and only just landing on Vegeta before he returns to normal. They survive by the skin of their teeth. And I like how Vegeta keeps getting back up for more time after time.

[ABED]

It was the one arc that at least pretended to have any tactical ingenuity inserted into the fighting. Every arc afterwards maybe has a stint here and there like Goku's torpedo Kamehameha, but generally it all became about predictable one on one power struggles with no one else accomplishing anything that was very substantial. The Saiyan arc also proved to me that teamwork could be a thing in DB when Toriyama wants to write for it.

Teamwork is fine, but it's not a story about a team and it's unfair to say that it's the ONE arc where there was tactical ingenuity.

But no, they die for nothing.

That's not dying for nothing, that's dying in an unsuccessful attempt to beat the bad guy.

And I couldn't disagree more with Gil's assessment.

[Marugoto]

Yes, I love the Saiyajin saga! It has the perfect balance of Sci-fi and Mysticism. It's also the only story arc where the manga version is great but the anime even better. I love every episode of the Z adaptation. Great way of handling filler too. Like how Goku's message to Uranai Baba results in a scene where the Oni meets up with her in a ghost diner à la Mos Eisley cantina. And Goku has some actual adventures in the afterlife. They were full of creative ideas in that arc.