Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
precita wrote:Gohan is going to go Super Saiyan Blue eventually, or have some sort of unique transformation similar to the Buu saga or like Trunks new form. Mark my words.
You know, expecting stuff like that to be a certainty is why people got so upset over Episode 52.
This was Trunks arc. Anyone expecting Gohan to jump in was kidding themselves.
They'll be an arc centered around Gohan, or Pan, and they'll get some spotlight.
Never thought i would say it, but I miss Gohan fighting
Hopefully there is something that makes him train again, but I think they have missed their opportunity in which Gohan could have helped Future Trunks.
Gohan fans just need to stop beating that dead horse and accept how his character is. He's not his father and never wanted to be a fighter; he was just forced into that role at times. Just let him be.
"I want the guys at Funimation to carry my casket, so they can let me down one last time" - Wezenheim
Son Gara wrote:Gohan fans just need to stop beating that dead horse and accept how his character is. He's not his father and never wanted to be a fighter; he was just forced into that role at times. Just let him be.
Please understand Gohan fans are Gohan fans because Gohan is awesome and his place is not where ChiChi think it is lol
This would only be a miss if Gohan was set and build up to be an important player in the arc, since none of that happened, his absence in the arc was not a miss.
Dragon Ball was always a kid series and fans should stop being in denial.
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
precita wrote:Gohan has a great character, backstory, role, etc. Its nice to also have a Saiyan not as one track minded as Goku and Vegeta
Gohan's role is basically "Grrr! I'm angry *does something cool that doesn't do crap by the end*". His deviation from his dad and Vegeta is also constantly treated/used to make him look like a joke and a moron, because if you're not a fighting junkie, you're worthless shit tier.
The only Gohan who's actually interesting is the one to ask Cell to stop this and how its kind of fucked up to get off on beating the crap out of somebody else. If Toriyama followed through with this, you would have a multifaceted Gohan. One who relaxes and reads in his down time isn't afraid to fight when necessary but since he's gotten genre savvy, you can have him reason with an enemy to stop the fight before it can begin or make him a more pragmatic character who just ends things before they escalate. That last one would have been particularly good after Goku died because he dicked around too much. Nothing comes of this though, leaving Gohan in his usual worthless shit tier character position.
Well though I like Gohan for his internal struggle with pacifism, but I agree that Gohan is useless to the story. Though his inability to accomplish anything was still foreshadowed as his weakness. He has never killed an opponent himself in a streamlined fight on his own, hes always just been a wall or a diversion. But even if Gohan was the mediating guy who fought as a last resort, the way this series is, it would get repetitive as all hell if it would be that predictable to where he would avoid the fight but then change his mind when he's forced to. He'd just be an huge doormat. In this series, you either fight or you dont and there is no room for in between. So I couldn't see anyway to bring Gohan back with a personality like his outside his own arc and I think Toriyama knew this. The closest to this we get was Bojack unbound (where that above mentioned formula would get repetitive) and Broly Second Coming, where he would get his prolonged beat down until something helps him out. While that wouldn't be a problem for me, (as at least a strong defense is his best compromise for his offense) people would still see him as fodder. He just couldn't ever lead his own arc without going into a full circle.
Zephyr wrote:The fandom's collective fetishizing of "moments" is also ridiculous to me. No, not everyone needs a fucking "shine" moment. If that's all you want, then all you want is fanservice, rather than an actual coherent story. And of course those aren't mutually exclusive; you could have a coherent story with "shine" moments! But if a story is perfectly coherent (and I'm really not seeing any compelling arguments that this one is anything but, despite constantly recurring, really poorly reasoned, attempts to argue otherwise), and you're bemoaning the lack of "shine" moments as a reason for the story's poor quality, then you're letting your thirst for "shine" moments obfuscate your ability to detect basic storytelling when it's right in front of you.
[spoiler]I just find it hilarious that Gohan was so out of breath from just flying to Capsule Corp. to say goodbye to Trunks. Really, did even flying take that much out of you? I didn't see Piccolo wheezing from the trip.[/spoiler]
"I want the guys at Funimation to carry my casket, so they can let me down one last time" - Wezenheim
I don't have a problem with the direction they've taken with Gohan.
I mean lets face it, Goku isn't a good role model. Gohan spent most of his childhood with his father either absent or placing him in life-threatening situations with high stakes. He got beaten to a pulp countless times, watched his father beaten to a pulp numerous times, witnessed friends die, witnessed his father die and had the fate of the world on his shoulders at a young age based on the fact that his father, who showed no real insight into his son's personality, 'knew he could do it'.
Heck, even Vegeta is a better father figure than Goku! Goku cares about fighting first - his family are usually an afterthought. At least Vegeta occasionally shows that he gives a toss about his family! Vegeta for gods sake!
Combine those factors with the fact that (as Piccolo once said) he never really had Goku's fighting spirt and it's little wonder that he's determined to be a better father to his child than his own father was to him.
Gohan spent most of his childhood with his father either absent or placing him in life-threatening situations with high stakes.
I don't think that's a fair assessment. Goku was there for Gohan for the first few 4 years of his life, was absent for a year because he gave up his life to save Gohan, was gone for a year after Namek because he was on another planet learning a very important and valuable technique, spent the next 3 years with him every day, and Gohan was put in danger by virtue of being the strongest. Goku didn't make him fight Cell against his will. Goku was there for Gohan more than you think.
had the fate of the world on his shoulders at a young age based on the fact that his father, who showed no real insight into his son's personality, 'knew he could do it'. Heck, even Vegeta is a better father figure than Goku
He did know Gohan. You cherry pick Piccolo's comments and disregard that Goku had said not a few episodes earlier that if Gohan wants to become a scholar, he first has to defeat Cell. He knows his son. And not only did he know Gohan could do it, not an exaggeration by the way, Gohan did do it because he was the ONLY one who could. As for Vegeta, he's an awful father. He never even hugged his son once until he was EIGHT YEARS OLD! When his infant son was almost killed by Dr. Gero, Vegeta's reaction was apathy.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
Honestly not really the thing about Gohan is that he already had his story arc and it is complete. Bringing him back only for the sake of it will never feel as anything other than fan service for the sake of fan service. This is similar to how Vegeta should of have stayed dead after the Freeza arc he becomes nothing but a obstacle in the Cell and Buu arc giving me the impression that Toriyama had no idea what to do with him and only brought him back because he was popular. The only way for Gohan to work is if episodes lasted more than 20 minutes but because of this restriction there is only so much you can show and only give the spotlight to so many characters and developing plot lines during an arc. This becomes a growing problem every time there are new character introduced something Toriyama likes to do and needs to flesh them out.
VDenter wrote:Honestly not really the thing about Gohan is that he already had his story arc and it is complete. Bringing him back only for the sake of it will never feel as anything other than fan service for the sake of fan service. This is similar to how Vegeta should of have stayed dead after the Freeza arc he becomes nothing but a obstacle in the Cell and Buu arc giving me the impression that Toriyama had no idea what to do with him and only brought him back because he was popular. The only way for Gohan to work is if episodes lasted more than 20 minutes but because of this restriction there is only so much you can show and only give the spotlight to so many characters and developing plot lines during an arc. This becomes a growing problem every time there are new character introduced something Toriyama likes to do and needs to flesh them out.
I never really understood this line of thinking. It's used for Piccolo and Tien a lot as well when people complain about their lack of relevancy. Gohan's initial arc may be complete, but is there any reason why the writers can't fashion a new arc for him? These characters don't have to be finished and fade away after their first arc is completed. The current cast is now so big and diverse they don't even NEED to introduce new characters at this point!
Of course if they were to do this then they should weave the character arc into the over-arching plot and not shoe-horn it in awkwardly in order to please fans.
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
VDenter wrote:Honestly not really the thing about Gohan is that he already had his story arc and it is complete. Bringing him back only for the sake of it will never feel as anything other than fan service for the sake of fan service. This is similar to how Vegeta should of have stayed dead after the Freeza arc he becomes nothing but a obstacle in the Cell and Buu arc giving me the impression that Toriyama had no idea what to do with him and only brought him back because he was popular. The only way for Gohan to work is if episodes lasted more than 20 minutes but because of this restriction there is only so much you can show and only give the spotlight to so many characters and developing plot lines during an arc. This becomes a growing problem every time there are new character introduced something Toriyama likes to do and needs to flesh them out.
I never really understood this line of thinking. It's used for Piccolo and Tien a lot as well when people complain about their lack of relevancy. Gohan's initial arc may be complete, but is there any reason why the writers can't fashion a new arc for him? These characters don't have to be finished and fade away after their first arc is completed. The current cast is now so big and diverse they don't even NEED to introduce new characters at this point!
Of course if they were to do this then they should weave the character arc into the over-arching plot and not shoe-horn it in awkwardly in order to please fans.
If they can come up with anything decent then sure. However i really doubt they can its hard to make Gohan do much that cant be accomplished by Goku or Vegeta. I mean what could he have done in this arc that might of seem essential that only he could have done and that did not feel as though the story just pretends as if he is important as it did with piccolo post the Saiyan arc.
Son Gara wrote:Gohan fans just need to stop beating that dead horse and accept how his character is. He's not his father and never wanted to be a fighter; he was just forced into that role at times. Just let him be.
Please understand Gohan fans are Gohan fans because Gohan is awesome and his place is not where ChiChi think it is lol
But is his place where his "Fans" want him to be? He could have trained if he wanted to, he doesnt want to.
Spoiler:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Gog wrote:The cell saga/android saga is the worst thing Akira Toriyama ever made. And nothing has ever actually managed to come close to it, after it. Even the terrible asspulls in the FT saga, weren't as bad as that. But of course this is all my opinion.
You've just made a new best friend.
Marz wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm
"Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"
This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same.
I don't get this people that are always saying things like "he is a scholar now", "he doesn't care for training", "forget Gohan already". Those things are true, but it's not like this is an immovable situation. His future it's not written in stone. When you are writing a story there are no things that you can't change. There's no thing like a character wasted or imposible to bring back into the first row. They even resurrect in this world, so not even death it's an ultimate destiny. My point is, if they want Gohan's return, they just have to write a good plot. A good plot enables Krillin or Piccolo to be useful even if they can't phisically fight a menace. This has been done before.
So if you don't like Gohan or you just don't want to see him again for whatever reason, just say it. But don't say that it's impossible or say others to forget about it.
