Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
TheGreatness25 wrote:I'm not sure what the issue is with GT. I'm accepting that it take place in a different world. But why should it exist at all, though? Nothing will ever branch off of it. It will never be revisited. It was just this self-contained thing. I view the movies in the same way.
I guess I can only say that up until 2013, or arguably 2015, the same seemed to be true of the manga, the other two anime series, and Dragon Ball as a story in general.
And that's fine. I don't think any series or story needs to be judged by its relation to, or capacity to spawn, future material.
TheGreatness25 wrote:But why should it exist at all, though? Nothing will ever branch off of it. It will never be revisited. It was just this self-contained thing. I view the movies in the same way.
Do you also ask why the movies should exist? Why should any self contained stories exist? Why should what-ifs exist?
Hell, why should fan works exist? Nothing official will ever branch off of them, after all.
Whatever, all I said was that Toei should come out and give a statement on GT since it's obviously a big topic.
I hope GT does get a sequel, though. I mean, why not? If Super is running smoothly, that means that they worked out the kinks from GT, right (ehhh...)? So why not do a post-GT series? They could go crazy with it since it's a fresh start. Pretty much do anything they'd like. After all, it won't have any affect on the "real" story.
TheGreatness25 wrote:Whatever, all I said was that Toei should come out and give a statement on GT since it's obviously a big topic.
I hope GT does get a sequel, though. I mean, why not? If Super is running smoothly, that means that they worked out the kinks from GT, right (ehhh...)? So why not do a post-GT series? They could go crazy with it since it's a fresh start. Pretty much do anything they'd like. After all, it won't have any affect on the "real" story.
I'd probably watch it, if only because that'd be such a weird starting place for a new series that I'd be willing to give it the benefit of the doubt.
I mean, when I was younger, I thought up a fan series that started post-GT. After some reworking, the main protagonists were Trunks's son, Pan's daughter (who becomes Trunks's wife), their son, and basically a whole new cast of characters. Goku and Vegeta lend a hand every now and then. I mean, why not? If it's no tied to Dragon Ball/Z, then there's nothing wrong with it.
When Toriyama is done then Toei might connect it to Super somehow so it might not be an alternate timeline forever.
I thought about it, and logically, there will be some reset in need, like Goku and Vegeta losing the ability to harness God ki.
But hell, we are talking about TOEI, with Pilaf and other plotholes so in TOEI canon, GT connects to Super perfectly!
Saying "It's okay to like it even though the series has no stakes in it," is the equivalent of giving a trophie to someone who came in last -- it's patronizing.
That's a stretch. GT may not have impact on Super, but it has stakes of its own.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
I don't understand what this obsession is with what's "non-canon" and what's "canon". That shouldn't be a determining factor to how much you enjoy whatever Dragon Ball produces.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
precita wrote:Man, they were already turning Goten into the next Yamcha by the end of DBZ, in addition to Gohan being the next Yamcha.
Why do Goku's sons always turn into Yamcha when they get older?
It should be noted that Gohan AND Goten have both also worn at least of ONE of Yamcha's hairstyles at some point in their lives...
TheGreatness25 wrote:I guess I can't put words behind it. Maybe I'm just insulted that Toei spent 17 years selling GT to me and I bought into it; after spending so much time and money on GT, for Toei to basically wipe their ass with GT, it's upsetting. By not even coming out and giving a statement on it, I do feel that it's a middle finger to the fans who supported them by buying into GT. They really don't even have the balls to address it when it's such an obvious question that fans have? What happened to how proud they were of GT? I feel like I supported them and now it doesn't matter because they took my money and now have a whole new set of people to spend more money on their new stuff.
I'm not sure what the issue is with GT. I'm accepting that it take place in a different world. But why should it exist at all, though? Nothing will ever branch off of it. It will never be revisited. It was just this self-contained thing. I view the movies in the same way.
Again, I can't put my thoughts together on it; it's just something that I feel. Maybe I'm just upset that my childhood is being messed with. But it's okay, if I like it so much, I can go ahead and pop in the absurdly-expensive GT Dragon Box that I got and never watched.
I'll be honest, I'm not the biggest fan of DBGT, but even I feel that considering how the Zamasu arc just ended...I mean, I don't know, maybe GT should at least be classified as an alternate timeline at this point. Though, I wonder what kind of explanation they'll give us as to why GT split from the timeline and became what it is now. As you said, GT is more-or-less "self-contained" as a series all by itself at this point.
Honestly, the fans are far more concerned with what is and isn't canon than TOEI themselves are. At this point I don't see TOEI coming out with an official statement on where GT fits into the current anime timeline because quite frankly its not a big concern for them.
The Dragon Ball franchise is a toy seller after all (and MozillaVulpix just did a great video on why this is not a bad thing), what TOEI want with the series is to write stories that take advantage of timelines, character transformations that are marketable. The Z portion of the series has been the most marketable for quite some time, so naturally TOEI will develop upon that part of the show irrespective of what happens later or how that would be affected. That said TOEI won't acknowledge GT as "non canon" because if they want to maximise sales of everything the franchise has at its disposal they must use GT concepts (Super Saiyan 4, GT characters) where possible (the anime isn't a possibility due to the timeline but the video games are).
It mightn't be convenient for TOEI to acknowledge GT's existence in the anime because Super cannot introduce new concepts that will heavily impact the story without making GT an impossibility in that continuity because the concepts they introduce (like transformations) sell but if they ruled out using GT transformations and characters it would affect sales, which they will want to be maximised as much as possible). Goku and Vegeta may have never had God transformations in GT and Freeza may have not had his golden form, but they fit TOEI's ultimate goal - which is to sell merchandise and that's why they are part of the story.
Do you have any info about international non-English broadcasts about the Dragon Ball anime or manga translations/editions? Please message me. Researching for a future book with Dragon Ball scholar Derek Padula
I'd love to see everyone's reaction if in 5 years they came out with another series that contradicts all of Super. That would be fun. It's easy when GT is "non-canon" and mostly unliked.
Just a fun thought.
The fact is that it is what it is, and it's not gonna change. They have their cash cow. They already got and forgot about their GT money, so who cares right? Make another 10 series. But the canon discussions might not mayer to me like for some, but nobody wants to feel like a series that they like doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things (contrary to what they were told for nearly two decades). Maybe that's the problem. I don't know. Whatever, R.I.P. GT -- certainly the most controversial of the original anime trilogy. After a life of being beaten into the ground, it can finally rest... at least when people stop comparing it to Super.
TheGreatness25 wrote:I'd love to see everyone's reaction if in 5 years they came out with another series that contradicts all of Super. That would be fun. It's easy when GT is "non-canon" and mostly unliked.
Super goes to great lengths to contradict itself.
I'm still enjoying it every week, well enough.
It's also worth noting that Dragon Ball Minus existing doesn't hinder my enjoyment of the Bardock TV Special. Does that hinder anyone's enjoyment of it?
What if they add GT characters in Super to be killed off similar how MKX did with the MK4-MKA characters. If they don't want GT to happen, they would need to get rid of Pilaf and destroy Planet M2.
TheGreatness25 wrote:While it's nice for people to come out and say, "Well GT isn't really part of the franchise, but it's okay to like it," the fact is that nobody wants to feel like the series that they were always told was official, suddenly doesn't matter in the scheme of things. Who wants to like something that doesn't even exist? It's okay if you know that it's in another timeline going in, but it's not so much fun believing it's really a part of the series, only to be slapped with the contrary later on. I equate it to watching a 3 hour movie only to find out in the end that it was a dream. Like what a way to shit on it.
Saying "It's okay to like it even though the series has no stakes in it," is the equivalent of giving a trophie to someone who came in last -- it's patronizing.
Whatever, I shouldn't even care. Since Super came out and I've been holding off to watch it, I inadvertently distanced myself so far from Dragon Ball, that the GT discussions are the only thing that spark any sort of interest from me. Don't know why it's such a sore spot. Maybe I spent too many years trying to defend it.
You could simply say its a alternate timeline and call it a day.
Zephyr wrote:It's also worth noting that Dragon Ball Minus existing doesn't hinder my enjoyment of the Bardock TV Special. Does that hinder anyone's enjoyment of it?
You'd be surprised. There's quite a contingent of genre fans on the Internet who refuse to take works unto themselves.
Hellspawn28 wrote:What if they add GT characters in Super to be killed off similar how MKX did with the MK4-MKA characters. If they don't want GT to happen, they would need to get rid of Pilaf and destroy Planet M2.
There you go; problem solved. Introduce the Evil Shen Longs and a version of Baby and just kill them all off. Have Baby land on Earth, laughing maniacally only to be blown up as Goku flies past him.
TheGreatness25 wrote:How can I really invest any emotion into watching something where I know that nothing in that series has any consequence on the "real" story?
I completely agree with this which is why I don't want anyone to rewind time to before Goku meets Beerus when Toriyama is done cause that'll make all those adventures feel like they were for nothing.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.
TheGreatness25 wrote:That's not the point, though. How can I really invest any emotion into watching something (again, albeit) where I know that nothing in that series has any consequence on the "real" story?
There is no "real" story. Something being newer, or coming from Toriyama, doesn't make it any more or less legitimate. GT exists by its own merit. If you can't enjoy it for that, I really don't get your standard.
TheGreatness25 wrote:That's not the point, though. How can I really invest any emotion into watching something (again, albeit) where I know that nothing in that series has any consequence on the "real" story?
There is no "real" story. Something being newer, or coming from Toriyama, doesn't make it any more or less legitimate. GT exists by its own merit. If you can't enjoy it for that, I really don't get your standard.
I also like to point out that Super can't do jack shit with anything because its smashed in-between the end of the Boo arc and EoZ. Even Ep67, which a lot of people praise for making a lasting change really doesn't make one on the core status quo: nothing Zamasu did means anything for the main timeline.
GT? Got rid of Fat Boo, Piccolo, Goku and the Dragon Balls.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
TheGreatness25 wrote:How can I really invest any emotion into watching something where I know that nothing in that series has any consequence on the "real" story?
I completely agree with this which is why I don't want anyone to rewind time to before Goku meets Beerus when Toriyama is done cause that'll make all those adventures feel like they were for nothing.
TheGreatness25 wrote:I'd love to see everyone's reaction if in 5 years they came out with another series that contradicts all of Super.
If Super continues to be good from now till it ends then I think a lot of fans will be upset but if it goes downhill for some reason then I doubt we'll care.
Fans will either consider the new show (if it's better) as the new canon sequel to DB&Z or completely give up on a good sequel and not even give it a chance.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.
