Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by SuperCyan2 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:51 am

I never hated Dragon Ball GT. In fact, I loved and will always as I grew up watching it as it aired in the 90's in its original order (DB > DBZ > DBGT). Tokunaga gave GT a very Kikuchi-feel soundtrack and I absolutely adored it because Kikuchi is my favorite anime composer of all time.

The whole 'hate' thing seems to have been boiled up on internet fandoms and what have you.
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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by Jord » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:11 am

One thing I like about GT is the progression of the characters. I didn't always agree with how the characters progressed (I would like to see Gohan more like his Buu incarnation) but it all felt very natural. Kuririn settling down and focusing on his family, Gohan dropping his fighting and focusing on his career, Buu sacrificing himself for Satan, etc. Although I prefer the child versions of Goten and Trunks I liked to see them as teenagers. It felt more real. Every character progressed. It really felt like a continuation.

In Super we either have characters flip-flop due to the continuinity (Gohan going from scholar to becoming a warrior again to becoming a scholar again at the end of Z) or having no progression at all. Progression is one of the basics of storytelling and Super lacks it in spades.

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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by 8bitdee » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:29 am

I never hated GT, I just simply never enjoyed it. From the beginning there was something off about the feeling of the show. From the writing to the music. And it wasn't because I thought it was filler because it "wasn't canon" or anything like that.

I grew up in Mexico and watched DragonBall on TV in the 90s before I ever touched a computer. I had no knowledge of the term "anime", even though I had been watching a lot of it. To me they were just cartoons. I had no idea that DB came from a comic book, and did not know what was filler or canon. To me, everything was just DragonBall. So when DBZ ended and got GT, it was just a natural progression for me just like when it went from DB to DBZ. So I had no knowledge of the behind the scenes of GT's creation, that it wasn't written by Akira Toriyama, etc etc. To me, DBGT was DragonBall, period.

But from that very first episode, everything felt off for me. The whole atmosphere for me felt like it wasn't the DragonBall I had been growing up with. Especially the music. It's amazing how much music changes everything.

It wasn't until I moved to the U.S. and discovered the internet, that I read about what GT and finally understood why I didn't enjoy.

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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by szopman » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:43 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
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ABED wrote: How did he regress?
He seemed a bit more childish, from what I recall, but like I said I like this goku more, so it's really a non issue for me.
No. Goku didn't regress in GT. In fact, he's very mature in that show.
I'd even say that in GT he maybe kid again, but he's very mature, actually in my opinion, in GT he is even more mature than in most of the Z. And in Super He's adult, but he's a total retard for the most of the episodes. For most of the time he acts even more childish than he did in the first sagas of original DB, when he was twelve.

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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by shadowmaria » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:05 am

shadowmaria wrote:I've always adored Dragon Ball GT (to the point where I'm working on a video project about GT that I've been thinking about for a very, very long time)

To quote myself from said video; "most of the issues present are a result of poor execution of great ideas"
It's true, I did eventually end up making this video. You can see it here, or in this thread here

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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by GamerSkull » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:54 pm

I’ve never hated it myself.

In fact, I like it more than Super and I basically would give both shows a 6/10. Enjoyable but with a lot of issues.

I remember watching GT as a kid and re-watching it when I got older. There are a lot of fond memories of that show.
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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by ulisa » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:05 pm

I’ve always had a strange fondness for GT. There are things about it that don’t work as well as things that could have been done better but overall, I like how things turn out. While I would have liked to see some characters developed differently, I still think it made sense—Gohan while focused on his career still clearly trains to protect his family which feels in character.

I love how the overuse of the Dragonballs is called into play. While I won’t deny some of the earlier Dragons are...laughable...the later ones are really well done. I do love that there’s a bit of a callback to the Cell saga in that Goku has to decide to go all out and risk killing his grandchild which is something they touched on with his training with Gohan—his difficulty going all out because of his emotional connection to him. I love seeing a similar dilemma presented and SSJ4 Goku when he’s in Papa Wolf mode is a terrifying opponent.

I think the main selling factor for GT for me though is the characterization of Goku. Again, not to hound on Super but, I think GT had Goku's Personality down much better—Is he given way too much screen time over the other characters, yes but it feels so much more like a continuation from the character at the end of Z than Super does. Super feels like they are just embracing his child self—trying to recapture that goofiness naïveté But it really doesn’t work because its not taking into account what he’s lived through, learned and done over the years. While Goku does not change much, he does grow wiser through his battles and challenges and Super seems to kind of ignore that.

GT Goku despite being in a child’s body FEELS AND SOUNDS like a mature warrior that has been through the ringer and knows his way around the battlefield. He still has fun with the battles but when things get serious, so does he.

The dub, despite its issues, I think really nailed that important aspect—it’s kid Goku’s vocals but there is a maturity and age to HOW he talks that really works well. I do recall Sean Schemmel doing an interview about GT and that’s something he mentioned—GT Goku has been through a ton of enemies and he knows when to stop playing around.

GT Goku really seemed to call back to Cell Goku where he’s showing that battle prowess and intelligence. I always felt Goku seemed to develop from martial artist to teacher in the Cell saga and GT touches into that character again.
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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by SuperCyan2 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:08 pm

GamerSkull wrote:I’ve never hated it myself.

In fact, I like it more than Super and I basically would give both shows a 6/10. Enjoyable but with a lot of issues.

I remember watching GT as a kid and re-watching it when I got older. There are a lot of fond memories of that show.
I'd put GT above Super because I really enjoyed the DB remake in space, Son being a kid again, the Pilaf gang in its original form, comedy aspect, the Super Saiyan 4 forms, Tokunaga's Kikuchi-like BGMs, the hand-drawn animation over digitized like it is nowadays and so much more!

In Japan it appears as though Animax has been airing GT in high definition or upscaled with the original broadcast audio so hopefully Toei can get around to do a Dragon Ball GT Blu-ray release. ^_^
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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by dbgtFO » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:18 pm

Replace the word "love" with "hate" and "you" with "it" in a certain hit song famously covered by Whitney Houston for the movie Bodyguard and you'll have my answer to the question :D

But yes indeed, my username also makes that clear and my feelings haven't changed since joining here.
It is what is and at least the current staff for Toei know how to make a proper DB show, that though flawed(to say the least), is a far more engaging experience, than GT ever was.

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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by bleed0range » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:15 pm

I don’t know if I’ve ever made it through all 64 actual episodes without skipping something because to me, GT is absolutely boring. It had a good premise but, I feel, they really dropped the ball on making it feel like Dragon Ball. Maybe that is because of Toriyama’s limited involvement or maybe not but... there isn’t much fun about the show.

Boo fighting Gotenks is ridiculous, but it’s entertaining and you can’t say it’s boring. The writers and creators of GT didn’t know how to make the show fun in that way. All they could do is try to recycle things Toriyama had done, only they did it poorly. The spirit of DB is both silly, fun, dramatic and action packed. The action was okay in a few places but they didn’t do a good job of making any of it fun or interesting.

I tried rewatching GT last year and actually fell asleep more than once. I only made it to Super 17 before I gave up. I just can’t watch it ever again.

The best episodes are the very first and very last. But most of the series I consider a failure because it does not entertain me.

Say what you will about Super, it has never been very boring. Except for rehashing the two movies, but U6 on had been very entertaining to me.

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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by SuperCyan2 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:34 pm

bleed0range wrote: Say what you will about Super, it has never been very boring. Except for rehashing the two movies, but U6 on had been very entertaining to me.
Well, that seems to be more of a statement than an opinion. To me, Super is extremely boring, dull, cheap, trashy and not very entertaining so I can't agree with that.
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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:54 pm

bleed0range wrote:All they could do is try to recycle things Toriyama had done, only they did it poorly.
Seriously bro? GT is still very original compared to Super.
95% of DBS content are ripoffs and forced "easter eggs" so fans can talk how cool and respectful to original story DBS is. They can't come with anything new. Oh, Vegeta even used self-destruction.
Is there anything else that was in DB/DBZ/GT but wasn't in Super yet? Honestly.
All Super do is copying. And if they try something new - it's boring. Like Jiren.

Look on how DBS advertise new arcs:
-Frieza is back, watch new arc
-Trunks is back, watch new arc
-Android 17 is back, watch new arc

To me, it's like they can't keep people watching series without bringing back old and popular things (like Vegito) or making tons of forced references.
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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by Cypher » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:51 pm

Leaving aside my abiding love of 'Dandan kokoro hikareteku', I've been quite enjoying rewatching DBGT on DVD... the only problem I have is when I begin thinking about power levels (inherently a problematic activity, I'll grant, but the invasive thought will push through), since they... simply don't make sufficient sense for me to come to any conclusions.

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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by King13s » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:41 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote: Seriously bro? GT is still very original compared to Super.
95% of DBS content are ripoffs and forced "easter eggs" so fans can talk how cool and respectful to original story DBS is. They can't come with anything new. Oh, Vegeta even used self-destruction.
Is there anything else that was in DB/DBZ/GT but wasn't in Super yet? Honestly.
All Super do is copying. And if they try something new - it's boring. Like Jiren...
This has been my biggest issue (gripe?) With Super.
The first half of the show was a rip off of 2 movies and Toyotaro's fan manga.
AF has a Kai getting pissed they almost died, and humans shouldn't be this strong. Instead of taking Goku's body, she um... Breeds a son using his DNA. We still get an evil white haired half Kai half Goku.

And now what, 60+ episodes of one 45 minute battle royal. Characters aren't given any real growth outside flashbacks and unearned emotional scenes.

My favorite thing differentiating the two is the use of transformations. Goku got SS4 in GT, and that was it. That was established as so monsterous his cockiness in battle was the only thing that ever got in his way until the final boss.

Super has God form, which Vegeta "got all on his own" some friggin how. Then Blue which was explained as just yeah, that's a thing even though we can still transform into regular Super Saiyan. However, it's proven useless and beatable in a couple episodes.

GT was a cash grab and I can admit that, but Super fans seem unwilling to admit that the show is a mess because that's all this is as well. The only reason they won't admit it, that I can see, is because Toriyama has input now.

For that all I have to say is that in American and Canadian comics and cartoons new writing staff has to be brought on to constantly evolve the show. Bring in new perspective, ideas, and generally keep the audience engaged. It works. Batman wouldn't be the Batman we know if his original writer was still controlling the ideas and plot.

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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by bleed0range » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:06 am

SuperCyan2 wrote:
bleed0range wrote: Say what you will about Super, it has never been very boring. Except for rehashing the two movies, but U6 on had been very entertaining to me.
Well, that seems to be more of a statement than an opinion. To me, Super is extremely boring, dull, cheap, trashy and not very entertaining so I can't agree with that.
I think it was obvious it was my opinion unless you believe that to be a universal truth. Do I really need to preface it with IN MY OPINION?

You don’t have to agree with my opinion, that’s the good news.

sunsetshimmer wrote:
bleed0range wrote:All they could do is try to recycle things Toriyama had done, only they did it poorly.
Seriously bro? GT is still very original compared to Super.
95% of DBS content are ripoffs and forced "easter eggs" so fans can talk how cool and respectful to original story DBS is. They can't come with anything new. Oh, Vegeta even used self-destruction.
Is there anything else that was in DB/DBZ/GT but wasn't in Super yet? Honestly.
All Super do is copying. And if they try something new - it's boring. Like Jiren.

Look on how DBS advertise new arcs:
-Frieza is back, watch new arc
-Trunks is back, watch new arc
-Android 17 is back, watch new arc

To me, it's like they can't keep people watching series without bringing back old and popular things (like Vegito) or making tons of forced references.

Well, honestly it seems you’re cherry picking. They brought 17 back in GT too. And Frieza... and Cell. But I would argue what they did with Frieza was more interesting in ROF and Super.

I think you’re also sort of not giving Super enough credit when you consider all the interesting characters from U6, like Hit who has become one of my favorites. I’ll agree they’ve done some dumb callbacks, but so did GT.

But at the end of the day, I still find GT incredibly boring compared to Super.

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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:49 pm

bleed0range wrote: Well, honestly it seems you’re cherry picking. They brought 17 back in GT too. And Frieza... and Cell. But I would argue what they did with Frieza was more interesting in ROF and Super.

I think you’re also sort of not giving Super enough credit when you consider all the interesting characters from U6, like Hit who has become one of my favorites. I’ll agree they’ve done some dumb callbacks, but so did GT.

But at the end of the day, I still find GT incredibly boring compared to Super.
Well, Hit is actually cool. I think he is the best and pretty much only interesting character in Super (Beerus and Whis are not DBS characters)
Other U6 characters were mostly pure trash except maybe Caulifla.

Yes, 17 was back in GT, but the arc was short. It was mostly a filler between Baby arc and Shadow Dragons. 6 episodes out of 64. It isn't even 10% of series.
I don't know how many episodes Golden Frieza, Future Trunks and Tournament of Power has, but it's clearly far more than 50% of series + Battle of Gods.
So pretty much the only arc that didn't try to advertise itself by bringing back old stuff was U6 tournament and that disaster arc about Jelly-Vegeta.

Also, there was a difference between Super 17 and Golden Frieza.
Frieza is the most overused villain. He appeared many times in movies and fillers. Then, they gave him a lazy golden form and made him lose in instant.
Android 17 was minor antagonist and they gave him a unique design. Super 17 looks far more original and better than Golden Frieza + he actually wrecked everyone and lost only because he couldn't kill his own sister.

Frieza was back for one episode. The same goes for Cell.
Meanwhile in Super there was a huge focus on Frieza's return, 17's return and Trunks return. They pretty much advertised entire, not so short arcs with them.
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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by bleed0range » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:12 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:
bleed0range wrote: Well, honestly it seems you’re cherry picking. They brought 17 back in GT too. And Frieza... and Cell. But I would argue what they did with Frieza was more interesting in ROF and Super.

I think you’re also sort of not giving Super enough credit when you consider all the interesting characters from U6, like Hit who has become one of my favorites. I’ll agree they’ve done some dumb callbacks, but so did GT.

But at the end of the day, I still find GT incredibly boring compared to Super.
Well, Hit is actually cool. I think he is the best and pretty much only interesting character in Super (Beerus and Whis are not DBS characters)
Other U6 characters were mostly pure trash except maybe Caulifla.

Yes, 17 was back in GT, but the arc was short. It was mostly a filler between Baby arc and Shadow Dragons. 6 episodes out of 64. It isn't even 10% of series.
I don't know how many episodes Golden Frieza, Future Trunks and Tournament of Power has, but it's clearly far more than 50% of series + Battle of Gods.
So pretty much the only arc that didn't try to advertise itself by bringing back old stuff was U6 tournament and that disaster arc about Jelly-Vegeta.

Also, there was a difference between Super 17 and Golden Frieza.
Frieza is the most overused villain. He appeared many times in movies and fillers. Then, they gave him a lazy golden form and made him lose in instant.
Android 17 was minor antagonist and they gave him a unique design. Super 17 looks far more original and better than Golden Frieza + he actually wrecked everyone and lost only because he couldn't kill his own sister.

Frieza was back for one episode. The same goes for Cell.
Meanwhile in Super there was a huge focus on Frieza's return, 17's return and Trunks return. They pretty much advertised entire, not so short arcs with them.
Well, I feel you’re missing the point by obsessing over the fact they brought back future Trunks. Because really, it’s only bad if it doesn’t work... but the Goku Black arc was a really great storyline with sort of a mystery to keep you coming back. The whole concept of Zamasu is more interesting and intriguing than any villain in GT.

Super 17 had a unique design, but honestly I think it’s a pretty weak design. I never felt it was “cool,” his hair and hairline look awful to me. But bringing back 17 with another design is still bringing back 17. So you can’t really say it’s any better just because they gave him a different design. It was a pretty weak story too. Could have potentially been more interesting if they hadn’t made it so short.

I have never understood the complaint about Frieza being overused. In reality he didn’t have that strong of a presence outside of his original arc. What movie 12 and GT? What else? Besides, you don’t see people complaining when Batman goes against the Joker again and again. Why does Frieza never get to come back?

I disagree that his golden form is dumb, I actually really like it. I like that Goku and Vegeta have one villain they can kind of keep up with and can keep up with them. Frieza is more or less like Vegeta was when he first started working alongside everyone. I actually don’t mind that’s because he is such a good character anyway.

And while it’s true Beerus wasn’t invented for Super, the whole point of Super is the two movies storyline is incorporated into it. Even though those arcs aren’t very good that still makes Beerus a part of Super. Beerus is so much better than any character in GT. Uub amounted to nothing and had no personality.

I don’t know, I just can find so many more things worthwhile about Super.

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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by Soppa Saia People » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:15 pm

It's like the definition of okay. It has it's moments, but I wouldn't call it good.
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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:31 pm

The whole concept of Zamasu is more interesting and intriguing than any villain in GT.
Yeah. Baby-ripoff is more interesting than Baby :|
There is nothing original nor interesting in him.
Arc was slightly interesting until they revealed that Goku Black is just Zamasu in Goku's body. Entire arc was trash since then.
But bringing back 17 with another design is still bringing back 17
Well, the difference is that Super 17 was main villain. But Trunks and 17 were not villains in DBS. 17 isn't even any main character. Just part of a team. Yet they advertised tournament with his return. Super 17 concept is like Golden Frieza, except more original and 17 is minor character while Frieza is overused.
have never understood the complaint about Frieza being overused
-Namek saga (longest fight in entire anime)
-Android saga beggining
-Otherworld tournament
-Buu saga scenes in hell
-GT
-DBZ Movie 12
-Plan to eradicate saiyans
-RoF movie
-DBS arc (+ current arc)
-Cooler being his brother (2 movies)
-Chilled being his ancestor
-Frost being his clone

For me it's pretty much. He was also just very popular and the most iconic enemy of DBZ.
the whole point of Super is the two movies storyline is incorporated into it
He still debuted in DBZ movies.
But if you count it this way, then GT Pan for me is far more interesting than Beerus. The same goes for Baby.
Uub was wasted and i agree with that.
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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by Jord » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:44 pm

With GT we also didn't know how the series would end, creating tension, and truth be told we had some big shocks like the perma-deaths of Piccolo and Majin Buu wih both getting a worthy send off. Goku's end is left ambiguous when the series ends. Did he die? Didn't he die? Heck, include the GT special with Goku jr and the entire cast except for Pan has passed away.

Super made the extremely stupid decision to be a midquel. Want to know how the ToP ends? Just watch DBZ episode 289. Since we know how the cast winds up nobody of the main DBZ cast was in any danger of perma-death. Will the universe be erased? Nope. The universe is alive and kicking in DBZ 289. Oh no! Goku Black will kill everyone! Oh wait....since we see the cast at the end of Z no one is in danger during DB Super. Oh and they have forgotten all about their Super adventures, the people they met and the SSJG forms.

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