If Toriyama had stuck to his original plan for the Android saga?

[MasenkoHA]

With 19 and 20 being the genuine Androids. No 16, 17, and 18 no Cell. How do you think it would have turned out? Personally I’m glad for the editor’s commentary because 19 and 20 were pretty boring. The only thing I could think of if they had stayed the true antagonist Vegeta’s attainment of Super Saiyan may have been handled better.

[OhHiRenan]

I actually love what Gero represents and I think he could have been an amazing antagonist with time to flesh him out. As is, sure, he’s kind of boring, but he’s conceptually incredibly fascinating with a lot of narrative potential.

I imagine, if Toriyama kept Gero as the primary villain, he likely would have gotten stronger by absorbing people ala Cell. I think it could lead to some early Namek arc/Cell’s introduction vibes.

[sintzu]

I'd have to see what his original plans were but based on what little we know and what we actually got, I think moving away from them was the right thing to do.

[ABED]

I do wonder what his plans were considering how quick that confrontation is. Goku and the first two cyborgs meet almost right off the bat.

[sunsetshimmer]

#19 sucked.

Dr Gero isn't interesting enough to be main villain in entire arc unless it was a shorter arc.
He could be there a bit longer but that's it. I'd prefer 16,17 and 18 as main villains.

I do wonder what his plans were considering how quick that confrontation is. Goku and the first two cyborgs meet almost right off the bat.

Yep, it lacked any tension.

[ABED]

Two teens and 16 don't excite me as antagonists either.

[Anonymous Friend]

In any scenario where things are different than we know them to be, we have no idea how much we would have liked or dislike the path taken or culmination. It's like trying to figure the path of sequences if Goku didnt have any heart problems while fighting 19.

[KBABZ]

For some reason a part of me says that Cell would still appear in the plot to absorb a pair of Androids, and the Mission becomes a slight twist on what we're familiar with where Gero and 19 are actively trying to get to Cell to be absorbed like they're sacrificial fanatics.

[Spider-Man]

I'm glad Dr. Gero isn't the main antagonist because I find him boring and 19 was forgettable.

[Attitudefan]

To be fair, towards the comments regarding 20 and 19 as boring, the characters did not have opportunity to grow. Whatever was planned for them was nixed and as a result, their progression as characters were stunted. I think it could have been very interesting to see what would have become of them. Much like the Beatles "We Can Work It Out" starting the song with the chorus, the arc started with a climax. Actually, that seemed to have been the initial theme at the beginning of this arc, where the Big Bad meets the protagonist right away. Happened with Freeza's return, and then Gero. Sadly, with input outside of Toriyama's plans, the story changed completely, and as a result we got Freeza 2.0 with Cell (Goku missing the largest portion of the stoy, transformations etc).

Only if we could see some ideas of what the plans were going to be with 20 and 19...

[KBABZ]

Only if we could see some ideas of what the plans were going to be with 20 and 19...

Given Toriyama's writing style I doubt he had any idea either!

[MasenkoHA]

For some reason a part of me says that Cell would still appear in the plot to absorb a pair of Androids, and the Mission becomes a slight twist on what we're familiar with where Gero and 19 are actively trying to get to Cell to be absorbed like they're sacrificial fanatics.

No Cell existed purely because Mr.Toriyama's editor gave him crap for Android 17 and 18 being two punk kids. Cell would have never happened if it wasn't for that said editor's disapproval of 17 and 18 who in turn only existed because of that same editor's disapproval of 19 and 20.

[SSJ YUSUKE]

I think Gero may have ended up being similar to Cell, I have a feeling that many of the concepts that Toriyama used for Cell may be used for Gero, for example Gero was an energy absorbing model which was later used again with Cell but in a more macarbe way. So lets say that after 19 is destroyed and Gero runs off, instead of awakening 17 and 18 he goes around absorbing people in order to get stronger. Since his ki can't be sensed the Z fighters run after him without being able to find him.They have several encounters with him with Gero getting stronger and stronger each time thanks to absorbing the energy of civilians and the Z fighters. Piccolo, Trunks, Tienshinhan and Vegeta both run into him at different times alone and he either escapes after being close to defeat or defeats them after getting stronger. Tien is left severely crippled after encountering Gero, Vegeta runs off to sob on the mountains while Piccolo goes off to meet Kami. In order to figure out how to defeat Gero Bulma discovers his lab. Trunks, Gohan and Krilin go off to investigate investigate but in doing so they accidentally awaken his earlier models 17 and 18. In this version they are still controlled by Gero thanks to chips in the back of their heads that make them obey his orders, they defeat. They are slightly weaker in this version but together through team work they easily able to defeat Super Sayain Trunks, while Gohan is also beaten really badly. Krillin realizes that it is the chips on the back of their heads that make them subservient and notices them trying to resist orders, so he uses the taiyoken to blind the androids and remove the chips on the back of their heads. 18 is grateful for Krillins help and gives him a kiss. They decide that they are now free and fly off. Little do they know that Gero needs to absorb the Androids energy to attain perfection and he uses his own tracker to track down the Androids.
Meanwhile Goku is cured and tracks down Vegeta, Trunks and Gohan and takes them to the Rosat. Piccolo fuses with Kami. Gero tracks down 17 and 18 and after an intense fight 17 sacrifices himself so that 18 can get away, Gero "transforms" and is much stronger, he chases after 18 who he then beats unconscious, just as he is about to absorb her a newly fused piccolo stops him. Piccolo easily dominates Gero but before he can destroy him Gero escapes again. Krillin picks up 18 and decides to take her to Kame house while Piccolo tries to find Gero. He continues absorbing people at an even greater rate until he runs into Gero again who this time is able tp fight on par with Piccolo. He uses a sneak attack to knock Piccolo out and absorb his energy, Piccolo is saved from being killed and having all of his energy absorbed by Tien.
Gero uses his scanners to track down 18 who has been hiding with Krillin. They put up a brave fight, with Krillin using all of his techniques to try and protect 18 but they eventually fall and 18 is absorbed.
Gero has now attained his "perfect" power but he is soon met by Vegeta and Trunks who have just left the ROSAT. Vegeta proves that he has gotten much stronger by fighting on par with Gero but soon Gero as an Android does not loose stamina as he fights so after a while he manages to defeat a tired Vegeta. Trunks realises that fighting a long fight with Gero puts them at a disadvantage and he increases his energy and muscle mass in order to defeat Gero quickly, it works at first but soon the loss of speed means that Gero is able to outclass him. Trunks is barely able to escape with Vegeta and Gero continues going around the world absorbing peoples energy. Gohan and Goku finally leave the ROSAT and fight Gero. Gohan and Goku had focused on increasing their stramina in their Super Saiyan form and unlike Vegeta and Trunks they choose to fight together to take out Gero. Unlike Vegeta and Trunks Gero notices that Gohan and Goku loose very little stamina in their Super Saiyan forms and this puts him at a disadvantage in the fight. After eventually being outclassed Gero decides to blow himself up along with the rest of the world. Goku uses sacrifices himself by teleporting them to King Kai's planet where they both die.
Everyone is sad at Goku's passing but Goku asks not to be wished back. Bulma uses the blue prints from Gero's lab to create a device that will shut down 19 and 20 in the future. Trunks uses it defeat the androids(since 18 and 17 were not activated in the future Gero is much weaker).

[KinguKurimuzon]

Lord knows what goes on in Toriyama's head, but I think that a proper Android Saga would've been pretty similar to what we actually got, with the Saiyans training, Gohan going SSJ2, and Goku dying at the end, though the final battle might've been with Android 20 or some other secret Android (#16, maybe?). It's hard to figure out a potential roadmap for the Saga since we don't know where exactly in the manga Toriyama actually changed his plans. It's possible that the Saga might've continued with #19 and #20 hunting down Goku like #16, #17 and #18 did, but #20 could've potentially transformed after Vegeta destroyed #19. Hell, maybe Vegeta wasn't even supposed to be there in the first place. Who knows?

[KBABZ]

For some reason a part of me says that Cell would still appear in the plot to absorb a pair of Androids, and the Mission becomes a slight twist on what we're familiar with where Gero and 19 are actively trying to get to Cell to be absorbed like they're sacrificial fanatics.

No Cell existed purely because Mr.Toriyama's editor gave him crap for Android 17 and 18 being two punk kids. Cell would have never happened if it wasn't for that said editor's disapproval of 17 and 18 who in turn only existed because of that same editor's disapproval of 19 and 20.

Hence why I said "for some reason".

[Attitudefan]

Considering their model to be the absorbing kind, but ends up just being a dead end plot, it would have me assume that Cell's arc would have been Gero's arc. I wouldn't be surprised if Tien was there and would have done more, as Gero would have started out weaker, giving Tien something to do.

As we know, none of this pans out. I have a feeling that, yes, the hunt for Goku would have been the main plot with Gero sneaking around, as we saw. It feels like Toriyama had all these ideas, like Gero sneaking, cyborgs fitting in to civilian settings, and slowly looking for Goku. My guess is that these were the initial ideas that were meant to play out but became moot points. Like, we saw Gero attack Piccolo and he thought he was stronger, but instead was taken out like a joke. My guess is that this was part of the initial plan, with Piccolo going out first giving Gero a huge boost in power. But instead of being treated as a joke, Gero would have gained immense power, ala Cell.

Actually, I have a feeling it would have essentially been like how Vegeta was sneaking around and taking people out on Namek, but with Gero doing that instead and to the good guys. Those initial plots like hunting for Goku and Gero absorbing power were shown to be gags in the end; makes me wonder if it was the editor's (or Toriyama agreeing as well) way to show that these were poor ideas made to be inside joke between Toriyama and his editor since those plot points go nowhere except for being a punchline.

A Cyborg arc re-write would be interesting that is for sure.

[Michsi]

Part of me thinks 17 was given such a big role in this last arc as an apology and as a pseudo-reenactment of what Toriyama had initially intended to do with. I still think that 16 would've ended up as final villain of the arc somehow given he was introduced almost right after the twins were, and there was this air of mystery surrounding him, but 17 would've been a formidable red herring I guess.

[Lord Beerus]

If this means there would have less time travel shenanigans, then the story would have certainly been more coherent, but nowhere near as superficially entertaining as it was.

[sangofe]

Only if we could see some ideas of what the plans were going to be with 20 and 19...

Given Toriyama's writing style I doubt he had any idea either!

Exactly. He never planned.

[90sDBZ]

I've always felt that the original premise for the Android saga was really exciting and started out well, only to lose momentum and not really regain it until later on. And even when it did regain momentum with Cell we still didn't get the bleak atmosphere from the future timeline. I loved the idea of there being 2 entities stronger than a Super Saiyan who were destined to defeat the Z Fighters and plunge the world into chaos. The initial scene were Trunks warns Goku about them with the visual cutaways was really well done.

I even liked 19 and 20 at first. And the way Toriyama added extra tension with Goku's heart virus was really effective. I felt like things came to a screeching halt once Vegeta defeated 19. After that we get a a game of hide and seek which lasts a few episodes on and off. Then we do get a good fight between Vegeta and 18, but the tension isn't really there anymore as the new Androids don't seem interested in causing much chaos. Throughout all of this we get Vegeta acting like a kid boasting about his new toy even though he wasn't the first to get it. Then we get a bunch of plot development and more hide and seek after Piccolo's brief fight will Cell. I do like Cell's introduction though, which is creepy and feels inspired by The Blob.

I do wonder what his plans were considering how quick that confrontation is. Goku and the first two cyborgs meet almost right off the bat.

I'd assume Goku meeting them right off the bat was an attempt to break away from the formula of him always showing up at the last minute.