Gogeta and Vegetto: Actual characters? Different characters?

[Zephyr]

I've been seeing this come up a lot lately, given that both fusions have been given new prominence in Super. Are Gogeta and Vegetto actual characters (whatever that means), or are they just combination-attacks/combat maneuvers, jointly performed by Goku and Vegeta?

If you consider them to be characters, would you say that they're the same character, on account of them having the same ingredients? Would you say that they're different characters, on account of them being formed by different methods?

Which one is better?

[Michsi]

I consider Gotenks to be an actual character (as in his own person), so I guess that same rule should apply to Vegetto and Gogeta as well. Neither of those adult fusions have as much "screentime" as Gotenks does though.

[KBABZ]

I consider them to be unique characters. While Goku and Vegeta remember their time as one individual, it's worth noting that both use the term "I" rather than "we" when referring to themselves. And they certainly behave as a unique personality to me, similar to Gotenks.

Funnily enough, I thought this thread was going to be postulating whether Gogeta is simply Vegetto with a different haircut!

[Zephyr]

IFunnily enough, I thought this thread was going to be postulating whether Gogeta is simply Vegetto with a different haircut!

I am postulating that, sort of.

[Michsi]

I consider them to be unique characters. While Goku and Vegeta remember their time as one individual, it's worth noting that both use the term "I" rather than "we" when referring to themselves. And they certainly behave as a unique personality to me, similar to Gotenks.

Funnily enough, I thought this thread was going to be postulating whether Gogeta is simply Vegetto with a different haircut!

I'd like to first see the latest movie for that assessment, but from what little I remember of Movie 12, Gogeta seemed a little more on the serious side, while Vegetto more cocky.

[Metalwario64]

I consider them to be unique characters. While Goku and Vegeta remember their time as one individual, it's worth noting that both use the term "I" rather than "we" when referring to themselves. And they certainly behave as a unique personality to me, similar to Gotenks.

Funnily enough, I thought this thread was going to be postulating whether Gogeta is simply Vegetto with a different haircut!

I'd like to first see the latest movie for that assessment, but from what little I remember of Movie 12, Gogeta seemed a little more on the serious side, while Vegetto more cocky.

He was, but it was all a ruse to get himself absorbed. When he set his plan in motion right before Buu absorbed him, he got very serious.

Gogeta just had to win, because his friends weren't going to die from him killing Janemba like what wold have happened with Buu.

[Kunzait_83]

While Gogeta/Vegetto are both very thin, broad characters (since they're both generally short-lived due to the Fusion's strict time constraints), I've always considered them separate, distinctly individual characters/identities from non-fused Goku and Vegeta. Generally speaking, most of Dragon Ball fandom (and indeed, the series itself) seems to regard the fusion characters as beings that are a wholly different identity from the two individual people whom they're made up from, and the Fusion characters themselves regard themselves as something different and set apart from their two component personalities.

Paraphrasing here since I don't have the manga or the anime on in front of me at the moment for the exact wording of the quote, but Vegetto kinda answers this question himself fairly directly: "If I'm a fusion of Kakarotto and Vegeta... I guess that makes me Vegetto."

[Michsi]

I consider them to be unique characters. While Goku and Vegeta remember their time as one individual, it's worth noting that both use the term "I" rather than "we" when referring to themselves. And they certainly behave as a unique personality to me, similar to Gotenks.

Funnily enough, I thought this thread was going to be postulating whether Gogeta is simply Vegetto with a different haircut!

I'd like to first see the latest movie for that assessment, but from what little I remember of Movie 12, Gogeta seemed a little more on the serious side, while Vegetto more cocky.

He was, but it was all a ruse to get himself absorbed. When he set his plan in motion right before Buu absorbed him, he got very serious.

Gogeta just had to win, because his friends weren't going to die from him killing Janemba like what wold have happened with Buu.

I don't think the cocky attitude itself was a ruse, but either way Vegetto just seems more expressive. There was a lot more of Goku in him in his behavior, but I think that's true of Gogeta in DBS: Broly too, so who knows. All saiyan fusions seem to have more or less the same personality; Gotenks, Vegetto, Kefla are all cocky overconfidence given form.

[Cetra]

It depends on in which mood Toriyama-san and Toei are. Sometimes it seems like its treated as collective consciousness, sometimes it is seen as its own individual ego. Funimation and other dubs make it even more confusing with stuff like "We are Gogeta!"

[Kunzait_83]

Funimation and other dubs make it even more confusing with stuff like "We are Gogeta!"

Those shouldn't even be factored in as part of the equation to begin with.

[Cetra]

Funimation and other dubs make it even more confusing with stuff like "We are Gogeta!"

Those shouldn't even be factored in as part of the equation to begin with.

I don't. Others do.

[90sDBZ]

I class them as being their own characters. Putting their awesomeness aside, I find both of them interesting because of the way they are similar yet different to Goku and Vegeta. I love how Vegito acts all cocky like Vegeta one minute and then all goofy like Goku the next. Him being absorbed deliberately was very clever and played very subtle by him, something I'm not sure either Goku or Vegeta would have thought of let alone pulled off.

Movie 12 Gogeta is also fun to watch because of his unique fighting style and no bullshit attitude. I love how he glides towards Janemba right before he attacks. And the Soul Punisher is a very unique move that you would never see Goku or Vegeta do alone because it wouldn't suit their style. Or at least it's unique aside from being similar to the Devimite wave from way back in OG DB.

Another question is can Movie 12 Gogeta and SS4 Gogeta from GT be considered the same character? The latter acts much more like Vegito for some reason.

[KBABZ]

Him being absorbed deliberately was very clever and played very subtle by him, something I'm not sure either Goku or Vegeta would have thought of let alone pulled off.

I actually disagree there; it's a very clever tactic that I can absolutely see Goku doing (for example, making Piccolo Jr large enough to jump inside his mouth and recover Kami). It's not in Vegeta's playbook but certainly Goku's.

Another question is can Movie 12 Gogeta and SS4 Gogeta from GT be considered the same character? The latter acts much more like Vegito for some reason.

Ignoring continuity snarl, I would consider that to be a form of Gogeta. While he and Vegetto are individual characters, they are ultimately informed by their component characters at the time of their latest fusion. Now I'm not sure if Gogeta or Vegetto are ever aware of their past iterations (in Super, did Vegetto remember the last time he fought against Buu, or was he considered a fresh spawning of himself?). I think the best way to put it is that the fused being is a gestalt personality of the two individuals: both characters are at the helm and acting as one and in unison. It's both Goku and Vegeta acting as one person.

I guess this is best shown with Kibito Kai; he wanted to be defused into Kibito and Grand Kai, which hints at the feelings of the two individuals of the unknowning permanence of their fusion, because they would never have done it had they known that. If Kibito Kai was a directly "original" personality, they wouldn't have felt this way, or said things like "Hey this is awesome!" when first being fused, because that's Kibito and the Grand Kai talking about they experience they're having.

Now I doubt Toriyama or anyone in the Dragon Room have ever thought about it on that deep a level, but hey there you go.

[Forte224]

I've always wondered this myself. As stated earlier, we never get enough time with them to really say so definitively. I think Vegetto's plan to save the four inside of Boo certainly speaks volumes. He still had care for them instead of just blowing them away with Boo and using the Namekian Dragon Balls to bring them back.

I kind of wish the Goku Black arc didn't retcon Potara fusion into being temporary for mortals. That way, after the arc was over we could've had some slice of life episodes with Vegetto and could really see how he reacts towards Chi Chi, Bulma, the kids, Gohan, etc. while waiting to use the Dragon Balls to split him apart (which was shown to be possible in Super with Kaioshin and Kibito).

[ABED]

Beside the method of fusing and the look, the big reason to have Gogeta and Vegetto be different from each other is if there's a more dominant personality to each of the combinations.

[goku the krump dancer]

Beside the method of fusing and the look, the big reason to have Gogeta and Vegetto be different from each other is if there's a more dominant personality to each of the combinations.

And there doesnt really seem to be, especially considering the Broly movie. They always seemed to be equally as calculating (manipulating Shenron and Boo) and confident (why wouldnt they be). Gogeta's depiction in movie 12 is probably the most inconsistent any fusion has ever been (Personality wise) and that's only for two reasons, 1.Gogeta realized that the longer Janemba existed the more things would spin outta control and 2. Whom ever was behind the direction and writing in Movie thought it was a Good idea for Gogeta to only appear in the last five minutes of the movie for some reason, maybe the budget wasnt large enough to extend the fight. I can honestly see a similar moment where Gogeta dances around with Janemba only to have him become angry enough that he does some weird thing that further turns reality upside down but then Gogeta seizes the moment to reverse everything before destroying Janemba for good.

[Polyphase Avatron]

There was an episode of Star Trek Voyager where a transporter accident fused two characters into one. They even had a portmanteau name like a DBZ fusion. But the new character was a completely different person, and when the crew discovered how to reverse the process and split him back into the original two, he begged them not to do it because he didn't want to die. I wonder if Vegeto, Gotenks, or any other fusions ever have similar thoughts.

[Metalwario64]

There was an episode of Star Trek Voyager where a transporter accident fused two characters into one. They even had a portmanteau name like a DBZ fusion. But the new character was a completely different person, and when the crew discovered how to reverse the process and split him back into the original two, he begged them not to do it because he didn't want to die. I wonder if Vegeto, Gotenks, or any other fusions ever have similar thoughts.

I doubt it, because they can be "reborn" any time they need to be. Maybe Vegetto would feel that way if all of the Potara were gone or something.

[90sDBZ]

Now I'm not sure if Gogeta or Vegetto are ever aware of their past iterations (in Super, did Vegetto remember the last time he fought against Buu, or was he considered a fresh spawning of himself?).

There was an episode of Star Trek Voyager where a transporter accident fused two characters into one. They even had a portmanteau name like a DBZ fusion. But the new character was a completely different person, and when the crew discovered how to reverse the process and split him back into the original two, he begged them not to do it because he didn't want to die. I wonder if Vegeto, Gotenks, or any other fusions ever have similar thoughts.

About this whole "fusions not remembering/dying" theory, it's obvious this isn't the case as Gotenks clearly remembers all of his previous encounters with Buu each time he fuses. Furthermore we see that Goku and Vegeta remember being Vegito as otherwise they'd be freaking out about being inside Buu wondering wtf happened. And Vegito also had there memories as he knew who Buu was and knew the Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack. So Vegito in Super must also remember his battle with Buu.

[KBABZ]

About this whole "fusions not remembering/dying" theory, it's obvious this isn't the case as Gotenks clearly remembers all of his previous encounters with Buu each time he fuses. Furthermore we see that Goku and Vegeta remember being Vegito as otherwise they'd be freaking out about being inside Buu wondering wtf happened. And Vegito also had there memories as he knew who Buu was and knew the Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack. So Vegito in Super must also remember his battle with Buu.

Oooh didn't even think about that! Lends credance to my "both characters at the wheel in unison" and "gestalt personality" ideas.