Vic Mignogna

[JulieYBM]

"WHAT HAD HAPPENED WAS THE SUN WAS IN MY EYES AND I ONLY JUST PRESSED MY CROTCH AGAINST A COMPLETE STRANGERS NECK AND TOTALLY MADE HIM FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE AND VIOLATED HIS SPACE DESPITE BEING A GROWN ADULT WHO SHOULD KNOW BETTER I SWEAR I'LL LEARN MY LESSON I JUST NEED ANOTHER SEVENTEEN YEARS OF CONVENTIONS TO DO SO BECAUSE THAT FIRST SEVENTEEN YEARS JUST WASN'T ENOUGH GOD, I"M ONLY SIXTY YEARS OLD YEESH CUT A KID A BREAK!!"

Christ, he doesn't need anybody in this thread apologizing for him. He should be tried for his crimes and permanently removed from fandom spaces--not that mind-blowing of an idea.

I need some context here. Did he write or say that?

I was employing hyperbole to make people understand how horribly ridiculous they sound to imply that what he did was not a sexual assault.

[Cetra]

"WHAT HAD HAPPENED WAS THE SUN WAS IN MY EYES AND I ONLY JUST PRESSED MY CROTCH AGAINST A COMPLETE STRANGERS NECK AND TOTALLY MADE HIM FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE AND VIOLATED HIS SPACE DESPITE BEING A GROWN ADULT WHO SHOULD KNOW BETTER I SWEAR I'LL LEARN MY LESSON I JUST NEED ANOTHER SEVENTEEN YEARS OF CONVENTIONS TO DO SO BECAUSE THAT FIRST SEVENTEEN YEARS JUST WASN'T ENOUGH GOD, I"M ONLY SIXTY YEARS OLD YEESH CUT A KID A BREAK!!"

Christ, he doesn't need anybody in this thread apologizing for him. He should be tried for his crimes and permanently removed from fandom spaces--not that mind-blowing of an idea.

I need some context here. Did he write or say that?

I was employing hyperbole to make people understand how horribly ridiculous they sound to imply that what he did was not a sexual assault.

I don't think people agreeing on the term is that important as none of us is actually denying the actions themselves and as pointed out before, it should be more the case of how to properly react to it instead of conflating things. If he acknowledges that there are people who do not want that should he not be given the chance to engage with fans in a way that seems more careful and appropriate instead of stoning him to death? If someone inflicts an injury on your life you surely do not respond by destroying their life completely. Or at least I hope you don't.

[saiyanhajime]

We need to stop getting so hung up over word use and derailing the point for the sake of it, because all it does is marginalise what he's done and the effect that's had on people.

They don't do it to marginalize what anyone did. I am pretty sure most people here are aware that Vic Mignogna is a somewhat excentric, overly physically expressive person. But you cannot conflate every misconduct because you cannot penalize everyone the same way since not everything has the same severty. If he does things that make people feel uncomfortable then people need to react in the right measures. Sentencing him to death (hyperbole by me, you get what I mean) is not the approach. I am 100% sure everybody that appears to be sceptic here is not doing that to say "oh, those "vic-tims" are bullshitting" and very well are capable of showing empathy, otherwise empathy towards Vic Mignogna would not be shown right now. So yes, I am convinced none of them posts what they do with the intent of saying "pff, let's not take these guys seriously and show no emphathy or compassion, they had it coming".

See, I think the problem is that no one is sentencing him to death. Everyone is just saying, stop letting him into conventions and Funi should stop hiring him for their own brand image sake. As with everything, both sides are at each others throats making examples out of the worst offenders. I got a tweet saying "no proof" when I just linked to the article, which is really awful. You're right though - you are objectively right. But the point I was trying to make in my previous post is how does this topic look to a victim? How does it look when people are standing around saying "now HANG ON that isn't sexual assault" when you feel sexually assaulted? Thanks for the sensible, level-head reply.

[PFM18]

If anything, calling his conduct sexual assault is extremely damaging. As somebody who knows several sexual assault victims personally, if you were to jump this in with their cases, they would definitely feel marginalized. It's like referring to somebody who is sad that they are no longer on vacation, and somebody who has a serious medical condition, as both having "depression." The person with clinical depression will sure as hell feel marginalized, and as though their issues aren't being taken seriously. It's the same case here. Not only does it marginalize actual sexual assault victims, but it isn't fair to Vic.

Obviously, Vic has been extremely inappropriate and should be reprimanded for his actions, but calling him a pedophile or a perpetrator of sexual assault is absolutely disgusting.

Everyone is just saying, stop letting him into conventions and Funi should stop hiring him for their own brand image sake.

Has anyone in this entire thread, argued against that?

[Cetra]

See, I think the problem is that no one is sentencing him to death. Everyone is just saying, stop letting him into conventions and Funi should stop hiring him for their own brand image sake. As with everything, both sides are at each others throats making examples out of the worst offenders. I got a tweet saying "no proof" when I just linked to the article, which is really awful. You're right though - you are objectively right. But the point I was trying to make in my previous post is how does this topic look to a victim? How does it look when people are standing around saying "now HANG ON that isn't sexual assault" when you feel sexually assaulted? Thanks for the sensible, level-head reply.

But aren't they already? My death penalty analogy was there to show how incredibly and without any chance of mercy, redemption shitstorm him, treat him like he was Jack the Ripper, want him to be excluded from society itself. That is pretty much killing everything his life is as a direct response to something that he has done instead of sitting and pondering "maybe we should approach this different and use the right amount of penalising" You are mentioning people that think they have experienced sexual assault. And that is horrible. It is not to be treated lightly. But Vic Mignogna is no less a human being. He did something that is deemed wrong but we don't live in a time were every misconduct, crime or whatever is supposed to get the highest punishment possible. Those who consider themselves victims should get help if they want help and Vic Mignogna should get penalised with the chance to actually come back to life afterwards. I also don't think it was the right move of Monica Rial to post a picture about "supporting survivors". The people that were extremely mistreated are no "survivors". There are real survivors out there. Maybe she meant it metaphorically but I do not know the woman. If you want to get an example of how different of a case this is: If Vic Mignogna were to hug me and kiss me on the cheek (and I am a man, btw.) I would not feel in danger or anything. I had people that I meet for 10 seconds have physical contact with me and I was (thinking) like "O.o okay, whatever". Some people are just very expressive. It is absolutely fine if those that he approaches do not want that or cannot cope with it (well, it is not fine that they cannot cope with it - I just mean, it is fine if there are different people who do not like that stuff because they feel it is an intrusion of their safety as they have the right to feel so) but I am just saying this is no case of "surviving" anything. I am no mind reader. Maybe Vic Mignogna is a wolf disguising as a sheep. But I can say they same thing for any of you guys here. I do not know you. Maybe you all are killers or whatever. People can only evaluate what is provided to them and as far as I am concerned it seems to me that the man is just someone whose actions that seem to cross the line for many mean nothing intentionally abusive to him. And as said and I will say it once again, it is absolutely fine if people still think it is too much for their own taste.

The TLDR version is: If a child throws pebbles (for those who think the pebble analogy is not rough enough think of a different case, those things are just there to make a point anyway) at others you scold it the right amount. You don't take out a shotgun and kill it. And just because you don't do that does not mean you do not acknowledge that they misbehaved. You very well acknowledged it. You were just looking for a proper response to show "that was not right" and make that behaviour go away. And in case of Vic Mignogna I think the best approach is what he seems to do: Only hug people, etc. when they actually want it from now on. At least that seemed to be what he wanted to do from now on.

And no problem, level-headed and considerate is the absolute must-have here for such a thing.

[saiyanhajime]

but it isn't fair to Vic.

Everyone is just saying, stop letting him into conventions and Funi should stop hiring him for their own brand image sake.

Has anyone in this entire thread, argued against that?

It doesn't matter if they have or they haven't, because it's getting lost under comments like the above. Do you understand?

Rather than arguing about what we describe his behaviors as, how about all of us state what we think should be done about it.

See, I think the problem is that no one is sentencing him to death. Everyone is just saying, stop letting him into conventions and Funi should stop hiring him for their own brand image sake. As with everything, both sides are at each others throats making examples out of the worst offenders. I got a tweet saying "no proof" when I just linked to the article, which is really awful. You're right though - you are objectively right. But the point I was trying to make in my previous post is how does this topic look to a victim? How does it look when people are standing around saying "now HANG ON that isn't sexual assault" when you feel sexually assaulted? Thanks for the sensible, level-head reply.

But aren't they already? My death penalty analogy was there to show how incredibly and without any chance of mercy, redemption shitstorm him, treat him like he was Jack the Ripper, want him to be excluded from society itself. That is pretty much killing everything his life is as a direct response to something that he has done instead of sitting and pondering "maybe we should approach this different and use the right amount of penalising" You are mentioning people that think they have experienced sexual assault. And that is horrible. It is not to be treated lightly. But Vic Mignogna is no less a human being. He did something that is deemed wrong but we don't live in a time were every misconduct, crime or whatever is supposed to get the highest punishment possible. Those who consider themselves victims should get help if they want help and Vic Mignogna should get penalised with the chance to actually come back to life afterwards. I also don't think it was the right move of Monica Rial to post a picture about "supporting survivors". The people that were extremely mistreated are no "survivors". There are real survivors out there. Maybe she meant it metaphorically but I do not know the woman.

I thought you were on my page but you're not. You're doing the same thing.

Your actual quote: "The people that were extremely mistreated are no "survivors". There are real survivors out there."
How it reads: "Their hardships are less valid than people who've actually been raped and murdered!" Stop it! Just. Stop! Think about what you're implying.

Vic is a grown ass man who can make grown ass man decisions about what kind of behaviour is appropriate when interacting with other humans of any age or sex or gender or whatever, let alone minors. And, let's not forget that his behaviour being brought into question is not limited to inappropriate touching and kissing of young girls, but also involves telling someone that their Jewishness can be fixed. He also refuses to endorse, for want of a better term, gayness and makes excuses about it.

I agree that everyone is human and humans make mistakes. Absolutely. But that doesn't mean that someone who has continuously been making such mistakes should be enabled in continuing them. Make a stand that this shit isn't ok.

[Cetra]

How it reads: "Their hardships are less valid than people who've actually been raped and murdered!" Stop it! Just. Stop! Think about what you're implying.

I am not implying that in the slightest. You are merely following the standard internet behaviour of reading what you want as a result of disregarding the stuff you dislike in the rest of my post. And the rest of my post clearly provides context you are ignoring. For better understanding I elaborated on it even by editing it and making a longer post about 15 minutes ago. In no way, shape or form did I downplay what happened to "non-rape" victims or anything, neither did I say Vic Mignogna should be let alone after a misconduct occured. Conflating things is not going to help and I said that often enough already. No one here is being an overprotective guardian of Vic Mignogna and no one here treats victims like they should not get help or be pitied so stop acting like I am the devil just because I was taught to not exaggerate with counter activities as direct response to an event that is not to be desired. So this dicussion between you and me is over as there is clearly no sense in continuing. If you want me to take on an extreme stance, then indeed we are not on the same page as every extreme is bad. If you want me to become an Anita Sarkeesian or what all those youtubers that automatically shoot anything down are, regardless of what the situation actually is, then no, sorry. I will not become one. Wrong-doers (once it is established they are) get the right treatment, victims get empathy; not wrong-doers get automatically killed with the shotgun without second thought and victims get 250% empathy. None of us wants to live in such a world, believe me, especially when we suddenly are in the shoes of someone who might have done a misstep. How anyone cannot see just because we do not want to see the man dead (= his life destroyed) we are not your enemies but actually most of us who share more thoughts on both sides, take no side at all is, beyond me. If your role-eyes emoji for PFM means you do not want to live in a world with fairness and proper reactions, so not one and the same reactions because of conflations then nothing is holy anymore (no idea if people say "nothing is holy anymore" in English, it is only my second language after all).

[JulieYBM]

I don't want Vignogna and Taberkorn unable to work, I simply want them unable to enter into our fandom spaces. It's highly inappropriate considering what they've done in those spaces. If licensees still want to hire them I couldn't give a shit, people gotta eat and if I wanted them to starve I'd just call for their execution.

[Cetra]

I don't want Vignogna and Taberkorn unable to work, I simply want them unable to enter into our fandom spaces. It's highly inappropriate considering what they've done in those spaces. If licensees still want to hire them I couldn't give a shit, people gotta eat and if I wanted them to starve I'd just call for their execution.

That seems a lot more of a considerable response.

[PFM18]

but it isn't fair to Vic.

Is that what you took from my post? Did you read it? Like, seriously I have no idea how that is what you came up with as a response. It certainly appears that you disregarded the entirety of the rest of my post and cherry picked that one comment.

Not only is that comment extremely minor in terms of the point of the post, it is still a priority to be fair to the person we are accusing, even if they were being extremely inappropriate and unethical.

Edit: I'm on my phone and messed up the format and I'm not sure how to fix it.

[JulieYBM]

I don't want Vignogna and Taberkorn unable to work, I simply want them unable to enter into our fandom spaces. It's highly inappropriate considering what they've done in those spaces. If licensees still want to hire them I couldn't give a shit, people gotta eat and if I wanted them to starve I'd just call for their execution.

That seems a lot more of a considerable response.

Hey, pieces of shit gotta eat, too. When it comes to capital punishment the state actually executes innocent people 4% of the time and approving of murder 4% of the time is wrong so I see no reason why we should every remove somebody's ability to earn a living.

[WittyUsername]

I thought you were on my page but you're not. You're doing the same thing.

Your actual quote: "The people that were extremely mistreated are no "survivors". There are real survivors out there."
How it reads: "Their hardships are less valid than people who've actually been raped and murdered!" Stop it! Just. Stop! Think about what you're implying.

Vic is a grown ass man who can make grown ass man decisions about what kind of behaviour is appropriate when interacting with other humans of any age or sex or gender or whatever, let alone minors. And, let's not forget that his behaviour being brought into question is not limited to inappropriate touching and kissing of young girls, but also involves telling someone that their Jewishness can be fixed. He also refuses to endorse, for want of a better term, gayness and makes excuses about it.

I perfectly understand calling out Mignogna for not respecting people’s personal space, and being insensitive to other people’s religious beliefs, but I think it might be best to stop calling him homophobic. As far as I can tell, the only real evidence that people have in that case is that he wasn’t comfortable signing Yaoi fanart. You can form your own opinions on what that says about him as a person, but when you openly cite that as being one of the reasons why he’s a bad person, you’re only going to make more people mistakenly assume that all the outrage towards Mignogna is an “SJW” thing.

[Cetra]

As far as I can tell, the only real evidence that people have in that case is that he wasn’t comfortable signing Yaoi fanart. You can form your own opinions on what that says about him as a person, but when you openly cite that as being one of the reasons why he’s a bad person, you’re only going to make more people mistakenly assume that all the outrage towards Mignogna is an “SJW” thing.

The man has already explained that he does not want to sign anything unofficial (though he wrongly used the word "non-canon" for it) so I don't see how that has anything to do with being homophobic. If we open this barrel then we cannot believe anything he says to explain himself.

[saiyanhajime]

Because he's lying. Because he still signs non-gay-coded unofficial stuff. Which is why I said "makes excuses about it". I actually almost wrote a part about "I'm on the fence re the homophobia claims", because I kinda am. I think there's a line between just not wanting to endorse something and that lack of support being homophobic by nature. At the end of the day, if you're not with us, you're against us. Explicitly making it clear that you do not endorse other people being gay is homophobic. But, I digress, I'm on the fence. It just adds to the picture. But I get that some people are going to see that as "SJWy" but I couldn't care less.

That seems a lot more of a considerable response.

*cough* It's also basically what I said....

Everyone is just saying, stop letting him into conventions and Funi should stop hiring him for their own brand image sake

His employers can do whatever the heck they want, but it's their funeral in the face of this shit-show.

[Cetra]

At the end of the day, if you're not with us, you're against us..

So if people are indifferent about it (not saying he is) you treat them as your enemies?

About the lying thing, maybe he is. Maybe he has put no thought into what he said. I do not know every piece of paper that he signed with his initials.

*cough* It's also basically what I said....

Then the phrasing might have been a bit off. Good that was made clear now.

[EXBadguy]

All I have to say about this is that I hope to God nobody else at Funimation has allegations against them, especially Sabat, Herbert, and Schemmel.

I don't want Vignogna and Taberkorn unable to work, I simply want them unable to enter into our fandom spaces. It's highly inappropriate considering what they've done in those spaces. If licensees still want to hire them I couldn't give a shit, people gotta eat and if I wanted them to starve I'd just call for their execution.

My stance on the topic as well. Hell, myself, I'd say to just cancel all of the fandom events and just have fan booths...or something with no physical contact.

[Cetra]

Come to think of it, I wonder what happens with Kameha-Con. IIRC he was supposed to be there.

[Bryesque]

A stranger forces his dick onto your person and you don't consider that sexual assault? Come the fuck on.

I guess anything can be turned into sexual assault these days.

...he forcibly put his genitals/genital area against someone without their consent. By what definition is that not sexual assault? Intending it as a "joke" doesn't change anything -- it was still non-consensual sexual/sexualized contact.

[saiyanhajime]

I heard through the grapevine he's no longer invited, but I've not seen any official source on that myself. Friend mentioned it to me.

So if people are indifferent about it (not saying he is) you treat them as your enemies?

Not at all on a personal level, but being indifferent and not standing up as an ally is an awful thing to be. It's saying that a group of people is not important or worthy enough of your support.

[PFM18]

A stranger forces his dick onto your person and you don't consider that sexual assault? Come the fuck on.

I guess anything can be turned into sexual assault these days.

...he forcibly put his genitals/genital area against someone without their consent. By what definition is that not sexual assault? Intending it as a "joke" doesn't change anything -- it was still non-consensual sexual/sexualized contact.

Is every "piggyback ride" ever considered sexual by nature? That's literally what he did, but obviously he did it without the other person's consent and that's wrong. But the act of giving/receiving a "piggyback ride" in which someone is on another's shoulders, does not ever have a sexual connotation. If you are going to define it that way, then it would render most fathers pedophiles for giving their kids "piggyback rides." (Again, albeit in those cases it is with consent.)