Ki Mechanics

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Re: Ki Mechanics

Post by Kunzait_83 » Mon May 06, 2019 1:27 am

ABED wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 9:29 pmThe topic is about whether ki should be explained in excruciating detail to the audience or if Toriyama was justified in believing his audience was familiar enough with the concept he could take it as a given.
While also bearing in mind the important point that Toriyama's audience was always, from the manga's entire 1984 through 1995 run, that of Japanese grade school age boys.

The implicit, unconscious bias that easily north of 90% of DB's present day Western/English Language fandom often fully operates under in their blanket assumptions is that Toriyama MUST have had DB's narrative, from day one in 1984, totally take into account American/Western audiences anywhere from five to ten years AFTER the series completed its original 11 year long Japanese run (a run who's scale and longevity Toriyama clearly didn't have the slightest inkling would come about at the start), and cater it specifically for them and take fully into account Asian cultural concepts that they might not be familiar with.

And the fact that Toriyama failed to fully predict and jump ahead of these global cultural gaps and snags back when he was making his first ever doodles of Pilaf and Yamucha (perhaps he misplaced his Baba-esque crystal ball sometime around when he was wrapping up Dr. Slump?) thus makes him a shitty storyteller, and the entire Dragon Ball franchise an inherently badly told story as a result.

Because honestly, who among us haven't run into the TOTALLY common, everyday problem of just casually brain farting out a seemingly silly, piffle of a dumb little kung fu fantasy comic book for 6 year olds that CLEARLY was destined from moment one to be a global pop culture juggernaut and take off like wildfire in the mainstream of numerous foreign markets - sometimes as late as nearly a solid decade AFTER its already completed its blockbuster native run - and thus have to plan ahead for what to do when the inevitable happens and foreigners from literally the opposite side of the fucking planet decades into the future are gonna have this dumb little kung fu fantasy comic (and its cartoon TV adaptation) be their first ever exposure to thuddingly basic Taoist myths and concepts, and thus you have to be 100% sure to seed into the story's beginning as many Kindergarten basic rundowns of your culture's archaic spiritual beliefs that act as the foundation for the entire narrative's basic premise?

I mean we've ALL been THERE before, amirite? Lazy hack that Toriyama is. :roll: :roll: :roll:

This assumptive framing (which is on its face ludicrously idiotic and silly once you stop and think about it for even five seconds) ALSO presupposes up front that Toriyama - a guy who celebrity manga artist status (and the financial lifestyle that comes with it) and insane levels of drawing talent aside, is otherwise in most other respects a fairly average Japanese man - would somehow have ANY idea whatsoever what the fuck exact Asian cultural concepts a Western audience might or might not have any familiarity with in the first place.

This is a door that does indeed swing both ways: just as many average Westerners have no idea that these distinctively Chinese storytelling tropes are incredibly widespread culturally throughout many parts of Asia (certainly most parts where Buddhist/Daoist beliefs have taken widespread root), so too would most average Asian people (many of whom have never set foot on Western soil themselves, or in some cases perhaps may well have never even MET a Westerner before) have utterly NO idea that these concepts are NOT so well known throughout many parts of the Western world.

That's kind of the whole rub about unconscious, baked-in cultural biases: they're by their very nature and definition things that most people DON'T immediately realize are there coloring their thinking (to even VERY significant and overwhelming degrees) and are VERY commonly taken completely for granted by most people unless they're specifically highlighted and examined closely: no matter if you're American, European, Chinese, Japanese, Middle Eastern, Russian, etc. Its just a fundamental and fairly universal quirk of human psychology.
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Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

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Re: Ki Mechanics

Post by Cursed Lemon » Mon May 06, 2019 1:43 am

Ki doesn't need to be explained down to the granular level because the mechanics aren't what's important, what's important is how ki is utilized in parallel with the theme of the show. Every culture on this planet understands the concept of determination and practice to get better, excel, and achieve. Ki strength goes up with effort expended and experience gained - the actual depiction of the power of manipulating energy would effectively be nothing more than a light show if it weren't saddled Dragon Ball's (or shonen's) basic narrative.
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Re: Ki Mechanics

Post by Desassina » Mon May 06, 2019 5:02 am

ABED wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 7:59 pmI have NO clue what you said or how it applies to this topic.
Again, doesn't explain what that has to do with this topic. It has little to do with it beyond also dealing with ki. The topic is about whether ki should be explained in excruciating detail to the audience or if Toriyama was justified in believing his audience was familiar enough with the concept he could take it as a given.
Becoming a good listener/reader takes some practice as well. The problem is that you only listen to yourself. How would you have known that it doesn't apply to the topic without a clue? Ki shouldn't be explained to a level of scrutiny that people can identify themselves with. The more it gets into its own mechanics, the more distance it will gain from the general concept, and become something that exists only in its fictional world and not our own.

Like communication, any language or media is responsible for what it does to the message (the content being Ki in this case), and you can either bore people with exposition running alongside the action or trust the latter to do the explaining. Toriyama may have trusted that actions speak louder than words, hence why Dragon Ball is different than most Shonen in the fighting department, because it made Ki visible as an extension of their moves and training or personalities.

Broly is the epitome of a strong dysfunctional type that some people can identify themselves with, not because he has the power of an Oozaru inside (that is an example of being too much into one's rules), but due to him losing grip of reality when things got to his head. He was grown like an animal after all, and we're shown in the same movie that discipline, or mastering a few moves like fusion grants much higher power or Ki, because it took somebody who's been taught and another who's self taught to interact. None of this was told to us, but I'm aware that it wasn't for nothing, because I've been through the experience of being disciplined to develop my own presence.

The fewer the words, the more relatable the concept, even if without the words we're at the mercy of pedantic people saying that "it's not there in the manga".

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Re: Ki Mechanics

Post by ABED » Mon May 06, 2019 11:51 am

I did read your point, but now that it's explained in a way that's simpler and more direct, I still don't think you're correct. It's not about relatability at all. It has everything to do with people understanding the idea of willing suspension of disbelief. We don't need an overly detailed explanation of how it all works because we know it's magic and magic isn't real. It's not the sort of thing people find emotionally engaging. Toriyama may have trusted the audience, or more likely, his story and storytelling style is very simple. If DB was a more complex story, then a more complex explanation might be more fitting.
(that is an example of being too much into one's rules)
It's really not, it's a very simple idea.
The problem is that you only listen to yourself
You assume WAY too much. I did read. I read it many times. I kept reading the statement until I got the gist of it, but I failed to see how it applied to this issue. I simply don't think your writing is clear. Keep It Simple Stupid. Great advice, hurts my feelings every time. For instance, what does "Presence is not tangible even though the person is" mean and how does it apply to this topic?
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Re: Ki Mechanics

Post by MyVisionity » Mon May 06, 2019 10:28 pm

ABED wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 11:51 am We don't need an overly detailed explanation of how it all works because we know it's magic and magic isn't real.
Why do you keep calling it "magic"? I think describing it in this way does a disservice to the entire concept of Ki as well as the series itself. It's already been stated how Ki is rooted in the natural and scientific sense, why dismiss it so easily?

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Re: Ki Mechanics

Post by Kunzait_83 » Tue May 07, 2019 12:17 am

MyVisionity wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 10:28 pmWhy do you keep calling it "magic"? I think describing it in this way does a disservice to the entire concept of Ki as well as the series itself. It's already been stated how Ki is rooted in the natural and scientific sense, why dismiss it so easily?
This is pretty misleading.

While there is indeed a real life, athletic training/conditioning root behind where the Toaist spiritual myths surrounding Ki originate, the myths in and of themselves are ANYTHING but a reflection of anything the least bit science-based. "Ki" in the real life, biological sense is simply inner deep-core muscle strength and conditioning, and the sudden, quick bursts of physical power a person can draw upon with sufficiently honed core muscle strength. There is NOTHING about this type of training in real life however that allows a human being to fly, to punch down mountains, to move faster than the human eye can detect, or to fire beams of light that can blow up a city. I mean, obviously.

These sorts of abilities are indeed a kind of fantasy magic. A type of fantasy magic mind you that's very firmly culturally rooted to a distinct and specific set of spiritual beliefs of ancient Chinese origins, yes, and which are a cornerstone, defining piece of folklore behind a specific genre of Asian martial arts fantasy (and which thus sets it apart on some level from types of fantasy magic we're used to seeing in a lot of Western media, much of which is more culturally rooted in things like Paganism, Wicca, and other forms of European occultism): but its still very much ultimately all a type/flavor of fantasy magic all the same.

Deep core muscle strengthening (when combined with numerous other forms of athletic training mind you) can in reality help a person achieve some remarkable feats of athleticism and acrobatics within the bounds of reason (think like an Olympic-level athlete for a pinnacle real life example): the god-like powers and abilities displayed in Wuxia martial arts fantasy fiction are LUDICROUS exaggerations of those feats, stemming largely from the absurd tall tales and superstitions of ancient Chinese peasants and esoteric poets from thousands upon thousands of years ago.

In real life, THESE are the kinds of actual physical feats that "Ki training" is potentially capable of allowing a person to possibly achieve:

Ancient Taoist superstitions and hysterically hyperbolic tall tales from medieval Chinese townsfolk and the imaginations of dynastic artists from centuries/millennia ago however "embellished" displays of athletic skill like the above from real life martial arts masters of their day into the kinds of outlandish fairy tale displays of "mystical martial arts" that we see presented in Wuxia/martial arts fantasy fiction, both ancient and modern:


In short: no, Ki is not "magic" in quite the same cultural sense as Witches, Warlocks, and Wizards of Western/European folklore. Yes however, Ki is VERY MUCH still "magic" in the sense that its all still ultimately supernatural fantasy nonsense stemming from ancient superstitions and religious beliefs: its just that it happens to be supernatural fantasy nonsense and superstitions of a distinctly more Eastern culture, and one that also happens to be an (exceedingly) exaggerated extrapolation of a biological concept that has a least a few of its toes dipped in something that's actually real.
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Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

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Re: Ki Mechanics

Post by MyVisionity » Tue May 07, 2019 1:29 am

I'm just saying that dismissing the need for a detailed explanation of Ki on the basis of "it's magic" is too easy and a bit of a misread of the material.

It's clear in the series that the characters' abilities are the result of their martial arts training in body and mind. I don't think they do anything that defies the laws of physics and nature. Not while taking the Ki aspect into account at least. From within the series, what they do is merely extra-ordinary. It's still bound by certain principles, as limited a number as they may be. It's only once you look at it from a real world perspective that the "magic" comes into play.

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Re: Ki Mechanics

Post by Desassina » Tue May 07, 2019 3:49 am

And magic is a thing besides Ki in Dragon Ball... Didn't Gohan break the latter down to others in DBO's story with a book?
For instance, what does "Presence is not tangible even though the person is" mean and how does it apply to this topic?
You may have heard of things like charisma, confidence, charm, all of which you can't touch, except the person who oozes of them. Those things can be developed by training physically, grooming your mind, being aware of your emotions, when lacking any of them might prevent you from the accomplishment of things that are real, like being surrounded by friends, having a girlfriend or wife and kids, getting that job position that you wanted so much, but allowed your anxiety to get in the way of success. You can't touch or grab presence, but develop it with the things that you can manipulate, and Ki is an extension of all that training and conditioning. Just because it manifests itself in a series with animal people and magical spheres, doesn't mean that the concept itself is magic, but it has been portrayed in ways that we can see and they can touch.

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Re: Ki Mechanics

Post by ABED » Tue May 07, 2019 5:40 am

MyVisionity wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 1:29 am I'm just saying that dismissing the need for a detailed explanation of Ki on the basis of "it's magic" is too easy and a bit of a misread of the material.

It's clear in the series that the characters' abilities are the result of their martial arts training in body and mind. I don't think they do anything that defies the laws of physics and nature. Not while taking the Ki aspect into account at least. From within the series, what they do is merely extra-ordinary. It's still bound by certain principles, as limited a number as they may be. It's only once you look at it from a real world perspective that the "magic" comes into play.
They fly and shot beams. It's clearly mysticism at play here. DB is a martial arts FANTASY. The more you explain stuff like how ki makes you fly, at some point you have to take a leap of logic and just buy it. Even in-universe, it's a mystical concept.
Last edited by ABED on Tue May 07, 2019 5:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ki Mechanics

Post by Kunzait_83 » Tue May 07, 2019 5:41 am

Desassina wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 3:49 amAnd magic is a thing besides Ki in Dragon Ball... Didn't Gohan break the latter down to others in DBO's story with a book?
Yeah, there's actually an interesting way in which various forms of (much more latter day/modern) Wuxia media have over time come to differentiate Ki/Chi from "magic" in the Western/European fantasy sense of the concept.

The idea is basically that while Ki/Chi is a natural power inherent in humans, nature, and most forms of organic life in general (that can be honed, cultivated, trained, and refined with the proper discipline, hard work, and knowledge), magic is almost a kind of unnatural "hacking" of reality and natural laws by occultists.

So while martial artists in Wuxia fiction are basically tapping into their own innate natural spiritual power and the energies of nature/life via their martial arts training to basically realize physical and spiritual potential that all of us are fundamentally capable of accessing if we work at it hard enough, Warlocks and Wizards and the like of Western fantasy media are by contrast defying the heavens and the natural laws of the universe by using spells and incantations and suchlike almost like "cheat codes" (for lack of a better way if phrasing it) that allow them to forcibly grab power that normally isn't/shouldn't technically be theirs to wield in the first place in order to bend/break the rules that govern reality itself.

I should note once more (in case I didn't make it clear enough before) that we're all sort of using the word "magic" here in two starkly different contexts & definitions:

1) "Magic" in the sense of the specific Western/European occult concept seen in Western fantasy media (i.e. the supernatural powers that Witches, Mages, and Sorcerers and so forth wield to cast spells and the like).

And 2) "Magic" in the sense of general supernatural (i.e. non-reality based) abilities seen in ALL forms of fantasy fiction, in all its different cultures, sub-genres, and flavors worldwide.

In the case of Ki/Chi, while it certainly does not fall under the first definition, it absolutely, obviously, and without question falls under the second definition.
Last edited by Kunzait_83 on Tue May 07, 2019 5:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

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Re: Ki Mechanics

Post by ABED » Tue May 07, 2019 5:44 am

I'm definitely using the second definition.

It's like how speaking Latin phrases out of a book can release malevolent spirits. Why? At some point you just have to believe it and move on.
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Re: Ki Mechanics

Post by Kunzait_83 » Tue May 07, 2019 5:47 am

ABED wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 5:44 am I'm definitely using the second definition.
Right, I gathered that much. :P And I think that might be where the root of some of the misunderstanding/miscommunication in this particular thread might be coming from.

Regardless, I very much agree with what you're saying in regards to the second definition of Ki as a type of fantasy magic. However, I think some of the other posters here are also trying to dig into and compare/contrast it with "magic" as it applies to the first definition. Hence why some of us seem to be talking past one another the last page or so of this thread.

To wit:
ABED wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 5:44 amIt's like how speaking Latin phrases out of a book can release malevolent spirits. Why? At some point you just have to believe it and move on.
Ki is very much "magic" in the sense of being a made-up supernatural fantasy concept rooted in religious lore. However it is most definitely not in any way THIS specific type of "magic" that you're referencing here in this quote. Ki and "magic" under this specific definition are indeed two very different, separate things. Both however, are very much indeed "magic" in the much more general, universal sense of the word.
Last edited by Kunzait_83 on Tue May 07, 2019 5:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

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Re: Ki Mechanics

Post by ABED » Tue May 07, 2019 5:50 am

Kunzait_83 wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 5:47 am
ABED wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 5:44 am I'm definitely using the second definition.
Right, I gathered that much. :P And I think that might be where the root of some of the misunderstanding/miscommunication in this particular thread might be coming from.

Regardless, I very much agree with what you're saying in regards to the second definition of Ki as a type of fantasy magic. However, I think some of the other posters here are also trying to dig into and compare/contrast it with "magic" as it applies to the first definition. Hence why some of us seem to be talking past one another the last page or so of this thread.
Any good sources you could point me to on ki/chi?
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Re: Ki Mechanics

Post by Rubens » Tue May 07, 2019 3:28 pm

I wonder if it's possible that lack of exposition about ki in the series can be partly related to first watching it starting with Z and if that can be associated with the dub, regarding those who first watched it back in the day. I'm saying that because I (and I assume in most parts of Europe aswell) grew up watching Dragon Ball since the very beginning, and despite the very faulty quality of my country's dub, I recall in that scene in particular when Muten Roshi first uses the kamehameha, Yamcha explains it as a technique capable of drawing out one's latent "spiritual energy" (paraphrasing), which was meant to serve as translation to ki - and that for me was enough to understand how it differenciated from the traditional sense of "magic" aswell as some other arbitrary form of energy. Goku's introduction to Popo's training reinforced that, since the dub kept that term (though sometimes variating simply to "energy" instead). It's quite long but they didn't care much about lip flapping back then. I frankly don't know how the other dubs handled it, but in general I think dubs play a relevant role in how they explain details.
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Re: Ki Mechanics

Post by KBABZ » Tue May 07, 2019 3:58 pm

Rubens wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 3:28 pm I wonder if it's possible that lack of exposition about ki in the series can be partly related to first watching it starting with Z and if that can be associated with the dub, regarding those who first watched it back in the day.
I can attest to this. When I first watched Z I thought they were literally firing lazer beams and that act was tiring. Not that you were literally firing out the spiritual energy within you.

Z did kinda cover this again with Gohan teaching Videl flight, but by that point you'd already gone through the Saiyan, Namek and Cell arcs so the US viewers were certainly NOT inclined to be educated on something they disagree with.

Overall, I feel the dubs have done a terrible job at localizing the concepts of ki for western audiences.

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Re: Ki Mechanics

Post by ABED » Tue May 07, 2019 4:24 pm

But considering how popular it was and it's only an "issue" in nerd circles, I doubt anyone had any problem buying into ki blasts whether they knew it was called that or not.
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Re: Ki Mechanics

Post by KBABZ » Tue May 07, 2019 4:39 pm

ABED wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 4:24 pm But considering how popular it was and it's only an "issue" in nerd circles, I doubt anyone had any problem buying into ki blasts whether they knew it was called that or not.
I get that, but one of the big problems with the franchise is that there's an enormous gulf between the original version of the show and the dubs, so there are two fanbases with completely different levels of understanding the work. Isn't that half the reason why this site exists??

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Re: Ki Mechanics

Post by MyVisionity » Tue May 07, 2019 5:35 pm

ABED wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 5:40 amThey fly and shot beams. It's clearly mysticism at play here.
Why? Because it's unusual? They're not flying just because they can. Nobody ate any special herbs or willed it into existence. They are using their Ki to propel themselves through the air and fuel their flight. Those beams they shoot don't come from nothing. There are clearly physical forces at play when somebody launches a Ki attack.
Even in-universe, it's a mystical concept.
What's your basis for this? Again, how is it "mystical" from an in-universe perspective?

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Re: Ki Mechanics

Post by ABED » Tue May 07, 2019 7:23 pm

MyVisionity wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 5:35 pm
ABED wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 5:40 amThey fly and shot beams. It's clearly mysticism at play here.
Why? Because it's unusual? They're not flying just because they can. Nobody ate any special herbs or willed it into existence. They are using their Ki to propel themselves through the air and fuel their flight. Those beams they shoot don't come from nothing. There are clearly physical forces at play when somebody launches a Ki attack.
Even in-universe, it's a mystical concept.
What's your basis for this? Again, how is it "mystical" from an in-universe perspective?
I don't even know what you're getting at. What do you mean there are physical forces at play? ANd what do you mean "they aren't flying just because they can"?

DB is a mystical story to its core. I was introduced to it through the dub of DBZ, but it's a world with people flying on clouds, poles that expand at will, the afterlife, orbs that grant wishes, etc. Why would you assume the characters' ability to fly and shoot beams from their hands is anything but mystical?
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Re: Ki Mechanics

Post by MyVisionity » Tue May 07, 2019 10:32 pm

ABED wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 7:23 pm I was introduced to it through the dub of DBZ, but it's a world with people flying on clouds, poles that expand at will, the afterlife, orbs that grant wishes, etc. Why would you assume the characters' ability to fly and shoot beams from their hands is anything but mystical?
Yes, things like the Kinto Cloud, Nyoibo, Next World, and Dragon Balls are mystical concepts. Flying and Ki attacks, in-universe, are not. They are portrayed within the story as being the result of intense martial arts training. There's no "magic" or "mystery" to it. Just hard work and dedication.

For me personally, when I was a kid and first witnessed Goku performing a Kamehameha, I didn't have much difficulty figuring out what was happening. I knew that he was a martial artist, I could see that he was doing some kind of physical movements with his arms and hands, combined with some kind of focused breathing. To me it was clear he was generating some kind of attack from within. I never questioned "how did he do such a thing??". Nor did I simply say "He must have magical powers!". To me it was all straightforward and simple enough, even if I didn't have all of the details. But I never just shrugged it off as cartoon fantasy.

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