In retrospect, was the (US) Dragon Box a 'monkey paw' release?

[ABED]

But there's no polite way to say something bigoted.

I do think tone and presentation do matter, else someone take what you mean about something as unsubstantial as a children's cartoon as something that actually matters. The substance is the steak, and tone/presentation is the sizzle. Save your fucks for when they matter. How you present your argument may not be AS important, but if you want persuade people, it is important to take into account how you present the argument.

My issue with Psaros isn't his tone, but rather his content. I appreciate someone pointing out what changes the dub made, but his content was nothing special and amounted to little more than a list and "dub sux". The tone of an angry adolescent was befitting of the content he was giving his readers.

[TVfan721]

I believe in being civil, respectful, and mature everywhere in life, especially as an adult. I'm not sure why that's a topic you disagree or feel so strongly against. The fact that you took what I said and took it to the extreme, put words in my mouth, and went as far as to bring Hitler into the convo is just cringe dude.

I've already stated several times that everyone is free to have whatever opinion they want so I'm not telling anyone what to think or say. The fact that I simply said what I did about maintaining respect and maturity when expressing ones opinions is resulting in this type of reaction is concerning. If this is the general belief of this site then maybe this community isn't for me anymore.

[Kunzait_83]

But there's no polite way to say something bigoted.

True. I'll take it even broader and say that there's no such thing as a polite way to be an asshole in general. Its all just surface-level affectations: which is largely why they don't ultimately matter very much in the grand scheme of things when it comes to the meat and potatoes of a discussion. When I buy a book, I don't give a flying fuck ultimately about the dust jacket: all I care about mainly is the content inside.

I do think tone and presentation do matter, else someone take what you mean about something as unsubstantial as a children's cartoon as something that actually matters. The substance is the steak, and tone/presentation is the sizzle. Save your fucks for when they matter.

Fuck's a perfectly lovely word, thanks very much.

And anyways, this was the post that initially sparked this whole back and forth in the first place:

Spoiler:

I find the "half-assed redub" as you call it, to greatly improve Season 3 for the remastered set.

It greatly improves season 3 provided you’re listening to the Kikuchi version where at least you don’t have a crap score being blasted over terrible performers saying terrible dialog. Otherwise it’s not that different from what was presented in 1999

They took the worst VA performance by far, Vegeta, and gave him a complete redub for the whole season, greatly improving the character

For consistency with how Vegeta sounded in the then newly dubbed first 67. Not because they realized how bad Sabat’s performance was. The fact that his equally terrible Piccolo was left alone speaks volumes.

. Frieza's redub for his first form was a big step up .

M
Not really. He just went from sounding like dollar store version of Ocean dub Frieza to sounding like Rita Repulsa getting plastered.

A lot of the worst lines were removed and changed to something more fitting as well.

Lmao no they weren’t. 98 percent of the dialog is exactly the same. Including the majority of unfunny jokes and awkward rewrites.

They didn't have to do anything

I agree and the product shows they really shouldn’t have bothered.

but they still put the effort in to fix a lot of the bad shit.

Effort is a strong word here.

Yeah, Goku should've been redubbed as well for consistency sake but Sean's performance in 1999 was the least of that dub's problems and he was one of the best of a bad bunch.

No he was awful. The fact that he’s being being contrasted by marginally improved performances makes it even worse.

Hardly some kind of horrendous gutter-talk that warrants popping a monocle off one's face.

[anubisj]

For me Dragon Ball is much more than a children's cartoon. I guess it was intended to be just that, a cartoon, and objectively speaking, you can say that it is, but fortunately, we don't live in an objective world, and so this cartoon in particular, in my view, has become something else altogether. I highly doubt even the creators would have expected my level of enjoyment; but that tends to happen in all art forms, be it a drawing, a book or any other media.

As for the english dub, it is my way of watching the anime, despite its flaws, and I haven´t even grown with it. The only main problem it has is the lack of certain japanese songs (I can't stand the faulconer score).

[Kunzait_83]

I believe in being civil, respectful, and mature everywhere in life, especially as an adult. I'm not sure why that's a topic you disagree or feel so strongly against.

In no way am I strongly against being a mature adult in life. Quite the contrary, particularly given some of the discussions I've had with a great many folks in this community since way, way back.

Where I disagree with you, strongly at that, is that what you're describing here in any way constitutes as being inherently mature. It doesn't: what you're getting hung up on rather are shallow, surface-level signifiers as opposed to actual maturity in substance and actions. Maturity isn't about being overly-polite and formal about everything, in every context, 24/7. That's not being mature, that's just being anal-retentive and stuffy.

Maturity is having common decency and compassion for your fellow man (in which "tone" in the context you're talking about here matters INSANELY little when push comes to shove), its having your priorities in life in order, its taking responsibility for your actions and the impact that they have on the lives of others. Maturity is something PROFOUNDLY deeper and more substantial than just "I made sure to say the right words in the right ways at all times!" Maturity isn't a speech affectation or a "tone": its inherent in how you live your life on a MUCH more intrinsic level.

Obviously context matters: no, I'm not going to walk into a gradeschool classroom and start cursing up a storm (even though most of the kids very likely say WAY worse things among themselves when their parents & teachers aren't listening), nor am I going to start telling loud and obnoxious jokes during a funeral, or what have you. That'd most certainly be ridiculous and in no way mature or respectful.

But this site is in NO WAY a formal or delicate setting: its a dumb forum about a dumb cartoon. Obviously respect and decency STILL matter of course: but saying a swear word or taking on a vaguely snarky tone about something frivolous, particularly in a setting like this, is in NO WAY being disrespectful or uncivil in the absolute slightest.

Disrespectful and uncivil would be if myself or Masenko said "TVfan, you're a total fucking idiot for disagreeing with us!" or something along those lines. I don't think that, Masenko surely doesn't think that, and NOTHING either of us said came VAGUELY within that realm.

You can express sarcasm and use some potty language in a casual setting while STILL being civil, respectful, and a mature adult. These things are in NO WAY as mutually exclusive as you're presenting them as. That's what my point basically is.

The fact that you took what I said and took it to the extreme, put words in my mouth, and went as far as to bring Hitler into the convo is just cringe dude.

I was mainly trying to highlight how absurd and ridiculous I found your view to be, particularly given the context. Regardless, I'm sorry if I strained the analogy too far.

he fact that I simply said what I did about maintaining respect and maturity when expressing ones opinions is resulting in this type of reaction is concerning. If this is the general belief of this site then maybe this community isn't for me anymore.

I think you generally need to perhaps take some of your own advice from earlier and loosen up a little. No one was "disrespectful" to you at ANY point in this whole thread, and in NO way was I advocating that "civility" and "respect" are somehow invalid in any way.

Of all the legitimately disturbing, downright blood-curdlingly horrifying things that people have said on this site, particularly in just the last couple of years (from rape apologism to defending slavery), you think that THIS is the most distressing thing that's making you rethink wanting to stick around in this community?

Like I said before man: you need to lighten up a LOT on this stuff, because what you're placing so much stock into as the epitome of maturity and decency are incredibly frivolous, silly, and meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

[TVfan721]

Can you please point to the post where I said I was being disrespected? I'm really curious because no where did I say that. Ever. Not one time.

I called the post arrogant and obnoxious because it read like angry nerd rage. Maybe the arrogant part was too far and I apologize for using that word. I'm not calling the poster an angry nerd whatsoever but the post came across like that. You say I need to let go, I don't know what I need to let go of though. I've taken no issue with anyones point of view in this thread. I hated the 1999 dub but don't hold on to any anger or past feelings regarding it. It's a dub that shouldn't have been made but it did and that can't be changed. I don't care.

[TVfan721]

And I forgot to add, the latter exchange between Masenko and I was totally fine. I've got no issues and feel this has been blown out of proportion.

[MasenkoHA]

Can you please point to the post where I said I was being disrespected? I'm really curious because no where did I say that. Ever. Not one time.

I called the post arrogant and obnoxious because it read like angry nerd rage. Maybe the arrogant part was too far and I apologize for using that word. I'm not calling the poster an angry nerd whatsoever but the post came across like that. You say I need to let go, I don't know what I need to let go of though. I've taken no issue with anyones point of view in this thread. I hated the 1999 dub but don't hold on to any anger or past feelings regarding it. It's a dub that shouldn't have been made but it did and that can't be changed. I don't care.

I mean, no disrespect, but you sure sounded offended/upset that I pointed out the redub didn’t really do much and took some shots at how crappy and lazy the redub was. I apologize if you misread my response as an attack on you.

And my response was hardly angry nerd rage. I’m not upset that the dub is objective horse shit, I was more amused at the premise that the redub really altered all that much. Because, again, it really really didn’t change that much.

[Kunzait_83]

It's been literally 20 years and you people are still bitching about the dub like Funimation stole your lunch money and bullied you in grade school. Honestly, it's really old seeing the same complaining. We get it. The dub is inaccurate. Like jesus christ Kunzait, this is exactly why people think you're a complete asshole.

1) Who's "people" in this context?

2) Normally an asshole is someone who's a belligerent piece of shit to other people. Someone who is maybe belittling or nasty or mean-spirited or temperamental or condescending towards another person. Someone who thinks themselves above others maybe, or is generally abusive in some way. That's the traditional definition of "asshole" as I've always understood it.

At NO point in life was it ever made apparent to me that "asshole" could also mean "someone who has a different opinion of a children's television show than I do and expresses it too adamantly or too often to my liking". That's quite a unique take on the definition of that word.

The level to which people over-personalize this shit and take differing views over a kids' show as a perceived personal attack or slight on them (or against others) is downright unhinged and lacking in any hint of perspective. A person can be an asshole for a GREAT number of reasons: taking a differing stance on the quality-level of a TV show from someone else, even in a strongly worded manner, generally is not among those reasons.

People WAY over-personalizing and interpreting "This person has a VERY different take or perspective on this TV show from me" as "How DARE this person insult and personally attack me!" is where at least 70% or more of the most needlessly heated and childishly viscous arguments on this forum usually tend to stem from.

[Cure Dragon 255]

It's been literally 20 years and you people are still bitching about the dub like Funimation stole your lunch money and bullied you in grade school. Honestly, it's really old seeing the same complaining. We get it. The dub is inaccurate. Like jesus christ Kunzait, this is exactly why people think you're a complete asshole.

1) Who's "people" in this context?

2) Normally an asshole is someone who's a belligerent piece of shit to other people. Someone who is maybe belittling or nasty or mean-spirited or temperamental or condescending towards another person. Someone who thinks themselves above others maybe, or is generally abusive in some way. That's the traditional definition of "asshole" as I've always understood it.

At NO point in life was it ever made apparent to me that "asshole" could also mean "someone who has a different opinion of a children's television show than I do and expresses it too adamantly or too often to my liking". That's quite a unique take on the definition of that word.

The level to which people over-personalize this shit and take differing views over a kids' show as a perceived personal attack or slight on them (or against others) is downright unhinged and lacking in any hint of perspective. A person can be an asshole for a GREAT number of reasons: taking a differing stance on the quality-level of a TV show from someone else, even in a strongly worded manner, generally is not among those reasons.

People WAY over-personalizing and interpreting "This person has a VERY different take or perspective on this TV show from me" as "How DARE this person insult and personally attack me!" is where at least 70% or more of the most needlessly heated and childishly viscous arguments on this forum usually tend to stem from.

I love you Kunzait. But lets be honest here. You treat anyone who disagrees with you with the utmost condescension.

[Dbzfan94]

It's been literally 20 years and you people are still bitching about the dub like Funimation stole your lunch money and bullied you in grade school. Honestly, it's really old seeing the same complaining. We get it. The dub is inaccurate. Like jesus christ Kunzait, this is exactly why people think you're a complete asshole.

1) Who's "people" in this context?

2) Normally an asshole is someone who's a belligerent piece of shit to other people. Someone who is maybe belittling or nasty or mean-spirited or temperamental or condescending towards another person. Someone who thinks themselves above others maybe, or is generally abusive in some way. That's the traditional definition of "asshole" as I've always understood it.

At NO point in life was it ever made apparent to me that "asshole" could also mean "someone who has a different opinion of a children's television show than I do and expresses it too adamantly or too often to my liking". That's quite a unique take on the definition of that word.

The level to which people over-personalize this shit and take differing views over a kids' show as a perceived personal attack or slight on them (or against others) is downright unhinged and lacking in any hint of perspective. A person can be an asshole for a GREAT number of reasons: taking a differing stance on the quality-level of a TV show from someone else, even in a strongly worded manner, generally is not among those reasons.

People WAY over-personalizing and interpreting "This person has a VERY different take or perspective on this TV show from me" as "How DARE this person insult and personally attack me!" is where at least 70% or more of the most needlessly heated and childishly viscous arguments on this forum usually tend to stem from.

I love you Kunzait. But lets be honest here. You treat anyone who disagrees with you with the utmost condescension.

Pretty much this. Constantly, and I mean CONSTANTLY shitting on the dub, its fans and even its actors modern performances just reeks of arrogance. It's not about "taking a different stance about a dumb cartoon. You said that, but then go on for 11 paragraphs about how dub fans are stupid for liking a bad dub and whatever other crap you spew that day. its about how rudely and persistently you assert said stance as some higher authority. You say you don't point fingers at people personally, but I've seen on more than one occasion that you in fact do. Yes, to me, that is an asshole. I'll repear what I said originally. It's been TWENTY. YEARS. You've beat the hate and criticism into the ground a decade ago. Let it go and move on.

[Kunzait_83]

I'm taking my response to PM's then: this has obviously been getting well beyond this thread.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I would love a PM Too!

[TVfan721]

Same honestly, I'd love a PM as well.

[Rory]

I have many regrets.

[Kunzait_83]

I have many regrets.

Don't we all?

[XanatosVanBadass]

I have many regrets.

Don't we all?

This forum does kinda act like there’s a contest as to hates the Funi dub the most. Of which I win because aside from the visually impaired, I think dubbing is an outdated practice.

[Tylerman29]

I have many regrets.

Don't we all?

This forum does kinda act like there’s a contest as to hates the Funi dub the most. Of which I win because aside from the visually impaired, I think dubbing is an outdated practice.

That's certainly a radical take, but I see where you are coming from. Personally I just dislike reading subtitles, I find they take the eye too often off of the art, and listening immerses me more than reading. Although for DBZ its sub all the way, but Kai and Super dub is my shiz.