Team Four Star's influence on Dragon Ball's revival

[jelleline89]

Dragon Ball only has it's own global success to thank for it's revival. From DBZ to GT to Kai to the BoG/RF movies and finally Super, Toei has always found ways to bring Dragon Ball's story to an audience that reaches television channels and home video markets internationally.

Was DBZA an internet success? Yes. But all it did was serve as an extra bit of optional content that fans could absorb and use the comedy outside of it. But does DBZ's fame owe anything to DBZA? Hell no. TFS would love to think so, as would the most diehard DBZA fans, but DBZ would have carried on being successful with or without DBZA.

[XanatosVanBadass]

Hell, if anything, the Dragon Ball revival was the reason TFS was able to maintain interest for so long and actually led to more fans checking them out.

[SpiritBombTriumphant]

No, airing Kai on Kidswb hurt Kai in the US. The average fan assumed Kai with Blue Popo and the glowing light orbs in place of halos, and the complete lack of blood and references to death was the actual Dragon Ball Z Kai. The eventual Adult Swim airings I think mostly fixed this mentality but before that any discussion of Kai online would inevitably have arguments brought against it that made it clear it was from people who weren’t aware that Kai had an “uncensored” form.

Agree with this 100% too. I knew a guy who used to say he knew everything about DBZ. When I finally saw him after many years, I asked him how he liked Kai. He said what I've seen plenty of other people say online, "We don't talk about Kai." What was his main argument? Blue Popo. Like the other people who churn out the phrase "we don't talk about Kai" like robots/NPCs, he also believed that 4Kids censored version to be the definitive version of the show as released by Toei and Funimation.

They aren't acting like "rock stars" at all, people like you that degrade youtubers and act like what they are doing isn't a "real job" irk me.

I'm with the guy you initially responded to. The people of DBZA don't have real jobs. They use this to make income so they can avoid real jobs. This is another topic entirely however, and one I don't want to engage in so I'll end it here. However, I think a lot of people are putting too much importance on DBZA. It did not help with any revival, and it did not hurt any revival. It is not that significant. The most significant thing that has happened is Sabat decided to go and throw in some jokes to Kai and Super referencing it because Funimation doesn't like faithful dubs.

[DBZfan29]

The people of DBZA don't have real jobs. They use this to make income so they can avoid real jobs.

This is such a shitty thing to say. There are people on YouTube who literally film themselves watching other people's work and for some reason they have thousands of subscribers. DBZA was a show that looked like it clearly had a lot of love and work put into it. Have you ever heard them talk about the show or watch their videos breaking down an episode? DBZA was full of passion. Saying people who do that are trying to avoid real jobs seems like you're shitting on entertainers in general. I also don't think TFS had a huge impact on DB outside of its core followers, but that doesn't mean you can't respect them for bringing something new to the series. People were tired of seeing the same Raditz to Buu storyline in video games year after year, but to me DBZA made it new and exciting to see how they were going to handle each arc (especially when they considered lots of information that has come out long after the show finished). The show has a lot of heart, and if you listened to them talk about it, you should see that it's not just something to avoid a "real" job.

[Peach]

The people of DBZA don't have real jobs. They use this to make income so they can avoid real jobs.

This is such a shitty thing to say. There are people on YouTube who literally film themselves watching other people's work and for some reason they have thousands of subscribers. DBZA was a show that looked like it clearly had a lot of love and work put into it. Have you ever heard them talk about the show or watch their videos breaking down an episode? DBZA was full of passion. Saying people who do that are trying to avoid real jobs seems like you're shitting on entertainers in general. I also don't think TFS had a huge impact on DB outside of its core followers, but that doesn't mean you can't respect them for bringing something new to the series. People were tired of seeing the same Raditz to Buu storyline in video games year after year, but to me DBZA made it new and exciting to see how they were going to handle each arc (especially when they considered lots of information that has come out long after the show finished). The show has a lot of heart, and if you listened to them talk about it, you should see that it's not just something to avoid a "real" job.

Still not right that they use convention fees and patreon to circumvent the "non-profit" status that's in every disclaimer. And that their most popular Let's Plays are "Krillin Plays", "Vegeta Plays", "Nappa Plays", "The Prince Plays", which are monetized.

[Mewzard]

Was DBZA an internet success? Yes. But all it did was serve as an extra bit of optional content that fans could absorb and use the comedy outside of it. But does DBZ's fame owe anything to DBZA? Hell no. TFS would love to think so, as would the most diehard DBZA fans, but DBZ would have carried on being successful with or without DBZA.

I don't disagree with much of your post, but where I do disagree is "TFS would love to think so". They've been nothing but super humble with their success. Even when overzealous fans try to claim this aspect or that voice is better, they tend to be up front in not being big fans of that.

Still not right that they use convention fees and patreon to circumvent the "non-profit" status that's in every disclaimer. And that their most popular Let's Plays are "Krillin Plays", "Vegeta Plays", "Nappa Plays", "The Prince Plays", which are monetized.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with any of that. Fans want to meet them in person or support them financially, that's absolutely their decision.

And those character Let's Plays are just doing character voices while playing games. That's not against any rules as they aren't the actual voice actors and therefore don't have to deal with any contractual issues.

[Planetnamek]

No, airing Kai on Kidswb hurt Kai in the US. The average fan assumed Kai with Blue Popo and the glowing light orbs in place of halos, and the complete lack of blood and references to death was the actual Dragon Ball Z Kai. The eventual Adult Swim airings I think mostly fixed this mentality but before that any discussion of Kai online would inevitably have arguments brought against it that made it clear it was from people who weren’t aware that Kai had an “uncensored” form.

Agree with this 100% too. I knew a guy who used to say he knew everything about DBZ. When I finally saw him after many years, I asked him how he liked Kai. He said what I've seen plenty of other people say online, "We don't talk about Kai." What was his main argument? Blue Popo. Like the other people who churn out the phrase "we don't talk about Kai" like robots/NPCs, he also believed that 4Kids censored version to be the definitive version of the show as released by Toei and Funimation.

They aren't acting like "rock stars" at all, people like you that degrade youtubers and act like what they are doing isn't a "real job" irk me.

I'm with the guy you initially responded to. The people of DBZA don't have real jobs. They use this to make income so they can avoid real jobs. This is another topic entirely however, and one I don't want to engage in so I'll end it here. However, I think a lot of people are putting too much importance on DBZA. It did not help with any revival, and it did not hurt any revival. It is not that significant. The most significant thing that has happened is Sabat decided to go and throw in some jokes to Kai and Super referencing it because Funimation doesn't like faithful dubs.

"avoid getting real jobs" oh gag me with a spoon and spare me with your holier then thou "being a content creator isn't a real jerb!" nonsense . I'm so sick of this outdated notion that you don't have a "real job" unless your work in a factory from 9-5, those days are long over.

Yes they do have real jobs, they've done professional voice-acting elsewhere, making videos on Youtube is a job whether you want to admit it or not.

[TheGreatness25]

Just like actors play roles to avoid real jobs. And all those musicians who are in the studio for 6 hours a day to avoid getting a 9-5 scanning groceries. What is this argument? Comes off as sour grapes. "Well I have to have a real job, why don't they have to come into an office and get yelled at by some asshole all day?" Because they work their ass off selling themselves and people are buying. When all of us come up with something that people would be willing to pay for, then we all could avoid "real jobs." I'm sure they work very hard but the difference is that they enjoy what they do, so I guess it's "not real."

Like, who does this Billie Eilish person think she is, making all that music and literally thinking about music 24/7, traveling, practicing, putting together beats, thinking up lyrics, being unable to go out in public? She'll never know the grit of helping some customer pick out a tshirt that fits them. Are we serious? As if the members of TFS just sit around in their underwear all day, voice over DBZA for 20 minutes every 3 months, and collect profits. It's a neverending job to sell yourself versus punching a time clock.

I challenge anyone here to make a YouTube channel that will supplement their income so that they don't have to get a "resl job." Go, do it. Let me know how easy it is.

[Xell]

Amen.

When they’re saying stuff like that, it devalues their whole argument for me.

God help artistic creators when people like this exist. In their eyes, everyone should conform and walk in a straight line. Complete dullards.

[10gigtriforce]

The people of DBZA don't have real jobs. They use this to make income so they can avoid real jobs.

This is such a shitty thing to say. There are people on YouTube who literally film themselves watching other people's work and for some reason they have thousands of subscribers. DBZA was a show that looked like it clearly had a lot of love and work put into it. Have you ever heard them talk about the show or watch their videos breaking down an episode? DBZA was full of passion. Saying people who do that are trying to avoid real jobs seems like you're shitting on entertainers in general. I also don't think TFS had a huge impact on DB outside of its core followers, but that doesn't mean you can't respect them for bringing something new to the series. People were tired of seeing the same Raditz to Buu storyline in video games year after year, but to me DBZA made it new and exciting to see how they were going to handle each arc (especially when they considered lots of information that has come out long after the show finished). The show has a lot of heart, and if you listened to them talk about it, you should see that it's not just something to avoid a "real" job.

Still not right that they use convention fees and patreon to circumvent the "non-profit" status that's in every disclaimer. And that their most popular Let's Plays are "Krillin Plays", "Vegeta Plays", "Nappa Plays", "The Prince Plays", which are monetized.

Agreed. They aren't quite doing the same things as other entertainers do and doing a patreon/donation for the content their known for(a la gaming historian) or jayztwocents and get sponsorships for their content and such. They keep 'insisting' it wasnt for dbza and that it was just donations or for other content that isnt related to dragon ball. and thats really my only main problem with tfs as a people. i like dbza dont get me wrong but the 'teehee this money totally isnt for/because of dbza' sthick is well.... we all know it aint true. They were/are profiting from it, even like you and others said using their tfs/dbza characters to promote other content of theirs.



But that aint about their impact on the db revival, which itself i still say wasnt much. the only tagently negative effect was their toxic af fanbase poisoning stuff and using their memes to do so.

[TheGreatness25]

And people are willing to pay for their content, so what's the problem? It's not like they're stealing money -- they put out something that people are willing to pay for. Yeah, and?

With regard to their impact, I mean my personal bearing stick is even the official people working on the series constantly get asked about them.

[Brodes]

No, airing Kai on Kidswb hurt Kai in the US. The average fan assumed Kai with Blue Popo and the glowing light orbs in place of halos, and the complete lack of blood and references to death was the actual Dragon Ball Z Kai. The eventual Adult Swim airings I think mostly fixed this mentality but before that any discussion of Kai online would inevitably have arguments brought against it that made it clear it was from people who weren’t aware that Kai had an “uncensored” form.

Agree with this 100% too. I knew a guy who used to say he knew everything about DBZ. When I finally saw him after many years, I asked him how he liked Kai. He said what I've seen plenty of other people say online, "We don't talk about Kai." What was his main argument? Blue Popo. Like the other people who churn out the phrase "we don't talk about Kai" like robots/NPCs, he also believed that 4Kids censored version to be the definitive version of the show as released by Toei and Funimation.

They aren't acting like "rock stars" at all, people like you that degrade youtubers and act like what they are doing isn't a "real job" irk me.

I'm with the guy you initially responded to. The people of DBZA don't have real jobs. They use this to make income so they can avoid real jobs. This is another topic entirely however, and one I don't want to engage in so I'll end it here. However, I think a lot of people are putting too much importance on DBZA. It did not help with any revival, and it did not hurt any revival. It is not that significant. The most significant thing that has happened is Sabat decided to go and throw in some jokes to Kai and Super referencing it because Funimation doesn't like faithful dubs.

"avoid getting real jobs" oh gag me with a spoon and spare me with your holier then thou "being a content creator isn't a real jerb!" nonsense . I'm so sick of this outdated notion that you don't have a "real job" unless your work in a factory from 9-5, those days are long over.

Yes they do have real jobs, they've done professional voice-acting elsewhere, making videos on Youtube is a job whether you want to admit it or not.

You don't want this reaction? Don't claim you're non-profit, and monetize in character videos or keep convention fees.

"oh well, would you say that to actors and musicians?" if they were cashing in on others works without paying a cent? Absolutely.

[MasenkoHA]

And people are willing to pay for their content, so what's the problem? It's not like they're stealing money -- they put out something that people are willing to pay for. Yeah, and?

With regard to their impact, I mean my personal bearing stick is even the official people working on the series constantly get asked about them.

I’d say building a business and brand off another company’s IP is kind of ahem bad.

[10gigtriforce]

And people are willing to pay for their content, so what's the problem? It's not like they're stealing money -- they put out something that people are willing to pay for. Yeah, and?

With regard to their impact, I mean my personal bearing stick is even the official people working on the series constantly get asked about them.

I’d say building a business and brand off another company’s IP is kind of ahem bad.

Especially when one lies and says thats not what they're doing.

[TheGreatness25]

And people are willing to pay for their content, so what's the problem? It's not like they're stealing money -- they put out something that people are willing to pay for. Yeah, and?

With regard to their impact, I mean my personal bearing stick is even the official people working on the series constantly get asked about them.

I’d say building a business and brand off another company’s IP is kind of ahem bad.

Don't misconstrue -- I'm aware of the legal ramifications of what they're doing. But, on the issue of TFS's success and influence, those are separate issues from how that success was acquired. Again, they're not stealing money from fans. Those people are gladly and voluntarily giving TFS their money. Now if Toei wants to claim that this is taking money away from them, that's a totally separate issue.

[It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips]

The hate for TFS in this thread is just plain stupid. If you don't like a product, don't like a product. You don't need to bust out this bullshit about them plaigarist and what not. IP law is already a fucking mess. Don't advocate for it to become even more ridiculous just because you don't like a youtube comedy show.

Don't misconstrue -- I'm aware of the legal ramifications of what they're doing. But, on the issue of TFS's success and influence, those are separate issues from how that success was acquired. Again, they're not stealing money from fans. Those people are gladly and voluntarily giving TFS their money. Now if Toei wants to claim that this is taking money away from them, that's a totally separate issue.

And TOEI would be in the wrong. Maybe they'd find a judge willing to see things their way but like the Robin Thicke Marvin Gaye lawsuit it'd be just another example of how intellectual property laws have completely lost the plot.

[TheGreatness25]

The hate for TFS in this thread is just plain stupid. If you don't like a product, don't like a product. You don't need to bust out this bullshit about them plaigarist and what not. IP law is already a fucking mess. Don't advocate for it to become even more ridiculous just because you don't like a youtube comedy show.

Don't misconstrue -- I'm aware of the legal ramifications of what they're doing. But, on the issue of TFS's success and influence, those are separate issues from how that success was acquired. Again, they're not stealing money from fans. Those people are gladly and voluntarily giving TFS their money. Now if Toei wants to claim that this is taking money away from them, that's a totally separate issue.

And TOEI would be in the wrong. Maybe they'd find a judge willing to see things their way but like the Robin Thicke Marvin Gaye lawsuit it'd be just another example of how intellectual property laws have completely lost the plot.

I don't know about that. Trust me,Toei would have something to sink their teeth into. But, overall, I agree about the hate regarding TFS. And if they're so not influential, when why the extreme over-the-top hate? Just ignore it.

[Planetnamek]

Agree with this 100% too. I knew a guy who used to say he knew everything about DBZ. When I finally saw him after many years, I asked him how he liked Kai. He said what I've seen plenty of other people say online, "We don't talk about Kai." What was his main argument? Blue Popo. Like the other people who churn out the phrase "we don't talk about Kai" like robots/NPCs, he also believed that 4Kids censored version to be the definitive version of the show as released by Toei and Funimation.



I'm with the guy you initially responded to. The people of DBZA don't have real jobs. They use this to make income so they can avoid real jobs. This is another topic entirely however, and one I don't want to engage in so I'll end it here. However, I think a lot of people are putting too much importance on DBZA. It did not help with any revival, and it did not hurt any revival. It is not that significant. The most significant thing that has happened is Sabat decided to go and throw in some jokes to Kai and Super referencing it because Funimation doesn't like faithful dubs.

"avoid getting real jobs" oh gag me with a spoon and spare me with your holier then thou "being a content creator isn't a real jerb!" nonsense . I'm so sick of this outdated notion that you don't have a "real job" unless your work in a factory from 9-5, those days are long over.

Yes they do have real jobs, they've done professional voice-acting elsewhere, making videos on Youtube is a job whether you want to admit it or not.

You don't want this reaction? Don't claim you're non-profit, and monetize in character videos or keep convention fees.

"oh well, would you say that to actors and musicians?" if they were cashing in on others works without paying a cent? Absolutely.

So you think ALL video reviews of fictional media on Youtube is "cashing in?", yeah no you are so full of it, also they never claimed to be non-profit. There is no reason why youtubers should HAVE to pay companies that created the piece of media just because they use footage from it in a video, if that was true video essays would not be a thing and the world would be much worse off.

At this point you are very much sounding like one of those "grrr you kids get off my lawn!" types.

[Zeon_Grunt]

So you think ALL video reviews of fictional media on Youtube is "cashing in?", yeah no you are so full of it, also they never claimed to be non-profit. There is no reason why youtubers should HAVE to pay companies that created the piece of media just because they use footage from it in a video, if that was true video essays would not be a thing and the world would be much worse off.

At this point you are very much sounding like one of those "grrr you kids get off my lawn!" types.

Not that I'm taking a side against TFS here (because I love them and are sad for no Boo arc), but why shouldn't a Youtuber have to pay royalty fees to use the characters and story of an established IP they're using an overabundance of footage from? Just out of curiosity, but if everyone else has to pay licensing fees to use someone else's IP legally, why should Youtubers be exempt from this rule? Because channels are usually started with no budget? For the record, not everyone agrees that parodies should fall under "Fair Use," and in many countries, including Japan, it doesn't (hence why Toei kept taking them down and would continue if they continued into the Boo Arc).

Also, video essays would still exist, there would just be far fewer who just talk over clips of the movies/shows playing in the background.

[MasenkoHA]

Video essays that use footage from a movie/show for context is an entirely different beast than dubbing over unlicensed footage to create their own show and profit off it (even in a roundabout way) .

If Teamfourstar wanted to do some review on Dragon Ball media or the history of Dragon Ball or whatever and used footage from the series to elaborate that would be fine.