Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 10 - DB movie 1

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Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 10 - DB movie 1

Post by Robo4900 » Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:16 pm

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Hello all, and welcome to week 10 of the first Dragon Ball rewatch of the decade.
We're doing five episodes a week, and we're watching every single episode of Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, and Dragon Ball GT, as well as all the movies and specials.
I encourage you all to watch in Japanese with subtitles, especially if you have never done so before, but watch along in whichever way brings you the most joy.

This week, the first movie!

Previous thread: Week 9 (DB 41-45)
Next thread: Week 11 (DB 46-50)

Anyway, without further ado...

Dragon Ball
"The Legend Of Shen Long"

Dub title: Curse Of The Blood Rubies
Originally released 20th of December 1986

Director: Daisuke Nishio
Animation supervisor: Minoru Maeda
Written by: Toshiki Inoue


The great King Gurumes is searching for the Dragon Balls in order to put a stop to his endless hunger. While his two minions are claiming to be loyal in their search for the Dragon Balls, they are actually using much of the power of Gurumes’ army to purge the land of precious “Rich Stones” for their own personal wealth. A young girl named Pansy, who lives in the village surrounding Gurumes’ castle, has had enough of the treachery and decides to seek Muten Rōshi for assistance.

Elsewhere, a young boy named Goku runs into a girl named Bulma, who is search of the Dragon Balls. The two head back to his home on Mount Paozu, only to discover that his Four-Star Ball has been stolen by Vongo and Pasta. Goku and Bulma pursue them, leading them on an insane chase that has them meet a shape-shifting pig, a desert bandit, and eventually, they all face off against King Gurumes himself.

Interesting trivia:
  • The movie premiered in December 1986 as part of the Toei Cartoon Festival, alongside movies for GeGeGe no Kitaro and Kinnikuman. The Toei Cartoon Festival had been running since 1969 as a way to promote their children's series in theatres during the school holidays. This is likely why these movies tend to only run around 45 minutes.
  • This movie was originally titled just "Dragon Ball" when it was released in theatres. "The Legend of Shen Long" was a tagline that was used in the opening titles, but it wasn't part of the full name until the film animation comic in 1995. This is somewhat comparable to the first DBZ movie, which never recieved an official subtitle at any point, despite a tagline, "Return My Gohan" being listed on some posters and home video, often mistaken as an official subtitle.
  • Up until the Dragon Box DVDs in the early 2000s, the movies were the only parts of the anime to be released to home video in Japan.
  • Daizenshuu 6 explicitly stated this movie to take place in an alternate timeline to the TV series and manga.
  • The movies are generally unique in the way they're formatted in that the shots are usually composed to work in both full 4:3 and cropped to 1.85:1 (slightly wider than 16:9); the animation sheets generally have both of thse aspect ratios shown as guides for the animators. This is why so many releases of the movies are widescreen. Though there's a lot of anecdotal evidence that the first few movies (such as this one) were primarily formatted for 4:3, meanwhile Z movies 3, 8, and 9, as well as the 10th anniversary movie have minor animation errors that are only visible in the 4:3 framing area. It remains somewhat controversial among the hardcore fans which aspect ratio is best, with the preferred choice of some depending on the individual film in question, though the fact the nicest-looking masters of the movies (Toei's HD remasters, Funimation's HD versions of the Z movies) are widescreen does cause some to lean in that direction, even if they prefer seeing the full frame. However, ultimately, both aspect ratios are perfectly acceptable, as a rule of thumb.
  • Gurumes is of course a pun on "Gourmet". Arguably a closer adaptation of his name would be something like Gourumes or Gourmeth. He's something of a parody of greed and gluttony. Minoru Maeda described designing him as follows: "I gave him this form based on the idea of gluttony. I think there was probably some influence from the gourmet boom at the time. The reptilian texture of his skin and such, I worked in consciously as “something Toriyama-sensei would be likely to draw”."
  • The driver of Pasta's jeep is based on Kato from the 1966 Green Hornet show, the first acting role Bruce Lee took as an adult.
  • Pasta's name pun is obvious, however Vongo's name is a pun on the italian dish "spaghetti alle vongole". The dubs tended to instead translate his name as Bongo, making him seem more like a dopey member of the Demon Clan.
  • To date there has been no adaptation of Dragon Ball that has done Goku meeting Bulma 100% accurately to the manga. The anime doesn't use the "old book I found in an attic" explanation for how Bulma knows about the Dragon Balls, and she hits Goku instead of his fish, this movie has the Pasta/Vongo stuff, and SIGNIFICANTLY speeds things along, the 10th anniversary movie has them outside Gohan's hut rather than inside, and Evolution, I don't believe Bulma even shoots him.
  • The movie has several mildly interesting commonalities with the TV anime:
    • The shot of Yamcha bouncing off the rock at a sharp angle was also done in the anime, and is an adaptation of a gag in the manga where Yamcha bounces off the top of the manga panel, breaking it and slamming straight into the ground.
    • The kettle sound when Yamcha steams up after seeing Bulma is the exact same sound used for the same moment in the anime (although the anime used the sound of a breaking down old-timey car as well).
    • The boat used to reach Roshi's island is the same one used at the start of Episode 5 of the anime, where Bulma gives Oolong the Piggy Pill while they're on the river.
  • The ownership of the double decker camper isn't explained in the film. It's more likely that Bulma actually owns it in lieu of her normal Capsule House, which doesn't appear in the movie.
  • The classic Kamehameha visual of a ball of light forming in the user's hands before they shout "HAAAAA!!" is purely an anime thing: it has never been depicted in the manga itself.
  • This movie would, of course, be the source of brand new music for the show itself; for each of the 1989-1995 Dragon Ball movies, Shunsuke Kikuchi would compose a new package of music specifically for the movie, and naturally, all those pieces would come into use for the show afterwards. The first time a movie cue would be used in the TV anime was Episode 53: the music from when Bulma throws the Dragon Balls into Gurumes' mouth was reused for the end of the episode where Goku dashes down the hallway escaping the collapsing Pirate Cave.
  • The music cue for the end of this film with the victorious trumpets would be used for the end of the 23rd TB in the anime, as well as for the final episode of the original anime. Very appropriate!
  • Later on, the music Kikuchi composed for the movies would become a lot more important; while the first Dragon Ball series had roughly five sessions of TV music recording, Z only had one or two, done right at the beginning. Because they were doing two movies a year for most of Z's run, and they had a full suite of music for each movie, they entirely stopped doing sessions for just the TV show, instead just taking new music from the movies (while also reusing tracks from all the previous sessions wherever appropriate).
  • The very first cue in this movie, playing while the narrator explains the Dragon Balls, is cut up and looped a bit to cover the full length of the animation. The editing is actually pretty bad, if you listen for it.
  • About 40 minutes into the movie, it seems a cue composed for the movie was cut, and replaced with a second usage of a cue used about 20 minutes in. This cue may have later been used in DBZ episode 19, when Goku chases Bubbles, though this is just speculation on the part of Kenisu, based off the fact it seems to use the leitmotif of Gurumes' army.
  • While we're on the subject, it's also of interest that the very first DB session was partially in stereo, as was the first/only Z TV session; all other sessions until about the third Z movie were entirely in mono. (Then all sessions from about Z movie 3 onwards were stereo) This is why the CD releases of Dragon Ball's music tend to be in stereo. For some reason, when Toei came to use Kikuchi's music to re-score Dragon Ball Kai, they decided they would ONLY use stereo music, so almost no pieces Kikuchi composed between the first DB session and the third(?) Z movie session could be used in Kai.
  • This film appears to be influenced by the Hayao Miyazaki-directed Studio Ghibli film Laputa: Castle in the Sky, including costume and scenery designs as well as a lot of aerial action around Gurumes' castle. Castle in the Sky debuted four months before the release of this movie, Shindo Productions did key and in-between animation on both works, and Toei distributed both as well.
  • This movie is Daisuke Nishio's debut as a feature film director, having previously only worked in TV and as an assistant director on the Dr. Slump movies.
  • This movie has been dubbed into English several times; first, there was a version created as an in-flight movie for Japanese airlines in the late '80s, then Harmony Gold did a dub in 1989, then Funimation did one with BLT in Vancouver in 1994 (with two versions produced; one with names closer to Harmony Gold's localised names, one with a lot of these names changed to resemble the original Japanese names), AB Groupe/Bridge Entertainment did a somewhat infamous dub of this around 2001/2002 (known as the "Big Green" dub), Funimation did an in-house dub in 2009 (mostly just reusing the script from the 1994 dub), and at an unknown time, Speedy Video did an infamous bootleg dub of the film.
  • In the initial 1994 BLT dub of this movie, Maggie Blue O'Hara was cast as Bulma. For unknown reasons, she did not return to reprise the role when Funimation and BLT moved forward to dub the first 13 episodes of the series, instead being replaced with Lalainia Lindbjerg, who continued to play the character in the 53 episodes and three movies of Z that were dubbed under Funimation with Saban and Pioneer in the late '90s. However, it seems Linbjerg was then unable to return to the role when Westwood Media brought the Vancouver cast back to do the alternate dub of Z episodes 123-291 (108-276 in TV numbering) that aired in the UK and Canada, so O'Hara got the role back for most of the Westwood Z dub (though she would end up dropping out in the end, replaced with France Peras for the last few episodes of the show).
  • Gary Chalk was also in the 1994 BLT dub cast, playing King Gurumes, as was Teryl Rothery, as Pasta (she would then go on to play Mai, Lunch, and Raven in the Vancouver dubs of the TV shows). Some people will probably find that pretty neat (I certainly did).
  • When the movie first debuted, the manga had just started the fight between Goku and the mysterious fifth fighter at Baba's palace.
Episode summaries, airdates, and titles courtesy of Kanzenshuu's episode guide. Filler breakdowns and most of the trivia courtesy of KBABZ, as well as Kanzenshuu's movie guide. Additional music information courtesy of Kenisu.
Last edited by Robo4900 on Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:21 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 10 - DB movie 1 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:58 pm

Of the 3 Dragon Ball movies this was probably my least favorite. It just kind of retells the first 13 episodes as much as possible in a 50 minute runtime with the original Gurumes plot squeezed in. Movie 2 and 3 may have been "retellings" as well but they do a lot more with their original stories.

Observations:

It seems Toei just recycled Suno's character model sheet for Pansy


Y'know if Toei ever made a Kai for the original Dragon Ball they could always use footage for this movie with the Goku fish catching scene since he is fully clothed.

Instead of Goku wrecking Bulma's car and then her using her capsule 9 for their new vehicle she's already riding capsule 9 motorbike before meeting Goku and they take a jetplane instead to chase the villains

So is like villains and roses some sort of anime trope? Is there a culture significance to this phenomenon?

Interesting that Bulma's dragon radar can detect the dragon balls inside Gurumes stomach? Didn't Bulma say the radar couldn't pick them up if they had been swallowed by a beast?

Both of the original Dragon Ball movies that has Shen Long in them has a character throwing the last dragon ball into the depths to summon Shen Long. Bulma throws the last one inside Gurumes in movie 1 and Goku throws the last one to the bottom of the ocean in movie 3.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 10 - DB movie 1 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Planetnamek » Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:59 pm

Saw the Harmony Gold version and thought it had pretty good voice acting, i'm interested to compare it to the 1994 and 2009 Funi versions.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 10 - DB movie 1 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by ABED » Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:07 pm

I like the movie but now that I'm older, the message about nature and greed sticks out like a sore thumb. It's not DB at all. That said, I found Gurumesu's (sp?) underlings interesting.

In the original version of the dub released by Tri-Mark, they inserted some scenes from the series. As a kid, I never noticed those changes, but they are very apparent as an adult.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 10 - DB movie 1 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Robo4900 » Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:11 pm

I added another piece of trivia to the end, courtesy of KBABZ:
  • When the movie first debuted, the manga had just started the fight between Goku and the mysterious fifth fighter at Baba's palace.
Because the trivia section wasn't long enough already. :lol:
ABED wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:07 pm I like the movie but now that I'm older, the message about nature and greed sticks out like a sore thumb. It's not DB at all. That said, I found Gurumesu's (sp?) underlings interesting.

In the original version of the dub released by Tri-Mark, they inserted some scenes from the series. As a kid, I never noticed those changes, but they are very apparent as an adult.
Yeah, the greed stuff is a bit weird for Dragon Ball. I do like the basic premise of the king being a troubled individual asking his minions to find the balls, but they're really just lining their pockets, but it was handled a bit clumsily.

The insertion of the episode footage into this movie is quite jarring as an adult. And a bit silly, too. Presumably they added it to pad out the runtime for syndication and DVD; the original 1994 recording of the movie didn't have this section of episode 2 in there, and the version of it that's in the movie is literally just pasted in from their dub of episode 2... Which also means Bulma's voice changes for those scenes! :lol:
Planetnamek wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:59 pm Saw the Harmony Gold version and thought it had pretty good voice acting, i'm interested to compare it to the 1994 and 2009 Funi versions.
I'm guessing BLT has the best acting, HG comes second, mostly due to the actors being somewhat awkward about the dubbing itself (some Big Green-y lines, some actors not managing to get their lines to sound natural within the flaps, etc.), and the Funi one is last, but still okay.

Interestingly, the scripting could probably be ranked similarly; Harmony Gold's is the most accurate dub, name changes aside, BLT's is next (provided you ignore the insertion of a large portion of DB episode... 2?), then Funi's is... Actually quite a downgrade from BLT's. They basically reused BLT's script, but removed any lines spoken where there wasn't dialogue in the Japanese version... Without paying attention to whether that dialogue was important to the flow of conversation, or if it covered information that was in the original Japanese version. So you end up with some nonsensical conversations, and some weird omissions of information.
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:58 pm Of the 3 Dragon Ball movies this was probably my least favorite. It just kind of retells the first 13 episodes as much as possible in a 50 minute runtime with the original Gurumes plot squeezed in. Movie 2 and 3 may have been "retellings" as well but they do a lot more with their original stories.
Agreed.
I think the 10th anniversary movie was a far better execution of the concept behind this movie. And I think the slightly more direct adaptation of the Red Ribbon storyline helped execute this kind of concept, whereas the Gurumes forces feels like some weird half-measure.

So, yeah, honestly I think this one is the weakest of the four OG DB-based movies.
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:58 pm Y'know if Toei ever made a Kai for the original Dragon Ball they could always use footage for this movie with the Goku fish catching scene since he is fully clothed.
lol.
I think Toei are too busy drowning in all the Super and DBZ Kakarot money to care about anything that happened before Raditz, so a DB Kai is unlikely at this time, sadly.
And if it did happen, I think they'd probably be too lazy to splice in movie footage. :lol:
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:58 pm So is like villains and roses some sort of anime trope? Is there a culture significance to this phenomenon?
I did always wonder about this. Rather an odd choice.
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:58 pm Interesting that Bulma's dragon radar can detect the dragon balls inside Gurumes stomach? Didn't Bulma say the radar couldn't pick them up if they had been swallowed by a beast?
She does, eventually, yes. :lol:
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:58 pm Both of the original Dragon Ball movies that has Shen Long in them has a character throwing the last dragon ball into the depths to summon Shen Long. Bulma throws the last one inside Gurumes in movie 1 and Goku throws the last one to the bottom of the ocean in movie 3.
LOL. That's a good point. I never noticed that!
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 10 - DB movie 1 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Danfun64 » Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:18 pm

Big Green's dub of this movie isn't that infamous, on account of it not being fully released to the public after the Toonami UK broadcasts of it stopped. One day those recordings will be found and released to the public... one day.....

As for Speedy, I was under the impression that they never dubbed this movie, and their release of it was always of the BLT dub. Do you have any evidence suggesting otherwise?
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 10 - DB movie 1 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Robo4900 » Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:33 pm

Danfun64 wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:18 pm Big Green's dub of this movie isn't that infamous, on account of it not being fully released to the public after the Toonami UK broadcasts of it stopped. One day those recordings will be found and released to the public... one day.....
A collector has promised me a recording of excellent quality (even proved he has it), but as yet, he's yet to deliver. He claims to just be busy, so we'll see. He's said he wants it shared wide, though, so if he delivers, we'll probably all get to enjoy it. :)

I don't think he'd mind too much if I revealed he claims his source is the guy whose recording this video originates from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvXoNIjKEx0
It'll get out one day, I'm sure. The guy claims to really want it out there.

Though, to specifically note the "Infamous" remark; I was referring to the infamy of Big Green in general.
Danfun64 wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:18 pm As for Speedy, I was under the impression that they never dubbed this movie, and their release of it was always of the BLT dub. Do you have any evidence suggesting otherwise?
I'll be honest, I can't even begin to care about the Speedy dub, so when noting it for this trivia, I just looked it up on the Dragon Ball Wikia, where it was listed, and didn't care enough to question it. :lol:

But if their release was just BLT's, I'll remove that particular part from the trivia section.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 10 - DB movie 1 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by KBABZ » Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:41 pm

Okay, for the first time ever, I HAVE NOTES! I know Dragon Ball back to front and I don't have an interest in watching plain Z at this time, but I've NEVER seen the movies so I'm taking this as a chance to watch them in Japanese even! This will also help in my fun project of "what happened in the Z storyline to result in the movies??".

- Very ominous that the music begins during the opening credits, with no narration for a good amount of time.
- One wish for anything at all? lol sure bro
- I detect no Jingle Village influence on Pansy's design at all!
- JESUS that soldier was about the smack that girl!
- Wait is that Kato as the getaway driver?!
- Wow, Gurmes' wish is even more pitiful than Commander Red's!
- Man, I will NEVER get bored of Mount Paoz background art.
- Very interesting, the opening of Goku's part doesn't stick to the manga as much as the anime did. Wasn't expecting that!
- The intercutting of the Pasta/Vongo and Goku/Bulma's meeting kinda distracts from both. I feel Pasta/Vongo should have passed by AFTER Goku and Bulma meet, to give the important meeting some breathing room.
- It's a bird! It's a plane! It's SOURMAN!! Incredibly sour and regular!
- "Where did he hide his other Dragon Balls?" I dunno, can't you use the radar on your plane to find that out??
- Good GRIEF Bulma's a good pilot!
- ...okay WOW I think she's enjoying that a bit too much.
- I love the detail of the orange-haired girl clipping herself to the plane for safety.
- Compared to the anime, I liked Goku having to pause and aim before throwing the Nyoi-bo to save Bulma.
- Very interesting to switch the Porsche and the Capsule Bike around.
- While I'll always love the bike for being utterly iconic as the way Goku and Bulma leave, I gotta admit that being put in the plane serves the "Goku has been thrust into a world that's totally alien to him" angle MUCH better.
- I love the little detail of Goku offering to trade back the Gurumes coin to the plane duo.
- Goku still doesn't know what marry means!
- It just occurred to me that Oolong can summon bowls of soup when he transforms! Could have been helpful in Diablo Desert!
- I love the reveal that Oolong transformed into a puny bat.
- Wow I LOVE that sequence of shots where Goku throws Nyoi-bo into Oolong's mouth, he's shot out of the trees, the Nyoi-bo stalls in the air and Goku grabs it while bursting out of the trees. Some fantastic choreography there!
- "If you want to stay alive, hand over all of your money and Hoi Poi Capsules." "But I don't have either of those things!"
- "Why do I have to beat him up? Is he bad?". Goku clearly hasn't discovered his love of fighting yet.
- I feel like the badassery of the Wolf Fang Fist is really broken by Yamcha's high-pitched Murasaki voice there.
- Huh, interesting, the movie goes for the rebound-off-a-rock adaptation of the manga gag too! Exact same angles even!
- So does Yamcha live in a quarry or something?
- I love how excited Bulma is about Yamcha.
- Interesting that Bulma calls Oolong a pervert before even knowing him at all.
- I like the look at Yamcha's garage in this brief scene.
- Yamcha, you might want to re-evaluate wishing for more power. It might come in handy later, just saying.
- "What a bumpkin!"
- Oh it's Roshi's theme! Used only twice in the anime!
- I love how forward Bulma is with Yamcha, haha.
- Oh it's the Nimbus theme again, how cool!
- I like Goku's initial shock that he's ACTUALLY standing on the Nimbus. The manga and anime I feel gloss over how surprising this is to Goku.
- Turtle is a REALLY minor character in this movie, isn't he?
- "That geezer's creepy!" SPEAK FOR YOURSELF!
- I like the combination of the initial Roshi creepy scene and Bulma forcing Oolong to do it in her place. At least, initially.
- This is a movie for eight year olds?!?
- I really like the much more scene-composed music here, it really helps the scenes come together.
- Oh, her name is Pasta! Okay.
- Okay, now we get to the bit that briefly adapt the Red Ribbon Army for a few minutes.
- Did Roshi take off his shorts too?
- Re-using a shot from the intro we saw at the start of the movie, okay then.
- Interesting how Pasta and Vongo didn't realize Goku had the other Dragon Ball in his stead.
- Ooh I love that guy's flying disc thingy!
- Toei didn't know it, but Goku's mid-air fight on the Nimbus is a lot like his fight with Tambourine!
- Okay, Oolong as the giant monster was useful after all. And played pretty amusingly too!
- I like how Yamcha loses his fight to Pasta, and him getting shot-up was BRUTAL!
- Gurumes has shades of Buyon: He's big, pink-shaded and the Kamehameha has no effect on him. They're both defeated in equally creative ways as well.
- WHY WAS I ALLOWED TO SEE PANSY'S PANTIES?!?
- We don't really need the montage and emphasis on Pansy's land and the oppression of Gurumes. We got that from the rest of the movie, thanks.
- Pansy is surprisingly efficient in the wording of her wish!
- ...and how exactly did Gurumes survive having Shenlong burst out of him again??
- Pansy's dad sorta comes out of nowhere, doesn't he?
- "Grandpa! The world sure is big and full of neat stuff!" Goku summing up Dragon Ball in a sentence and a half.
- A glittery, shining dream? EW!

---

And now for my more wordy thoughts:

I feel the introduction of Goku at the beginning of the movie goes by too fast. What I like about the anime is that we spend a good amount of time "sitting" with Goku as he goes about his morning, which is completely lost here, a shame considering he's the central character of pretty much every story. I expect the editors have assumed you've seen Episode 1 of the anime or read the first Chapter of the manga, which I feel is a mistake for this film standing on its own. This isn't the way to introduce someone to Dragon Ball, in my opinion.

I feel the first half of the film suffers from trying to squeeze everything in and having too many elements. In particular I feel meeting Oolong significantly busies things considering how useless he ultimately is to the story. He's only there to fill out the full Dragon Ball Gang from the original arc, but he doesn't benefit the story in any way outside of the cute monster gag in Gurumes' castle. The movie does a few beats differently, but whether they work or not is a crapshoot. For example, I love that Goku is actually surprised that he can stand on the Nimbus, but the rest of the time I generally prefer how the anime handled it.

Speaking of compressing the story, Gurumes having five of the Dragon Balls already sure is a convenient way to make the movie shorter. To me this REALLY detracts from the "hunt for the Dragon Balls" story because, well, they only ever find one other. Hopefully Path to Power will play this better. I realize the anime and manga both did this, but them setting out with three means we get a lot more of the "hunt" aspect. Here everyone pretty much has them already, we just need to get the one from Master Roshi. It removes what I believe is an important element of the original arc, which is that it's a road movie-like story. This film really isn't a road movie like the first arc was, so there's a lot of compression of space as we just pop from location to location. Yamcha's quarry feels practically next-door to Mount Paoz to the point I'm shocked Goku had never been there before.

Overall the movie was fine, but a bit of a mess. Combining the Pilaf Arc and jamming it into the Gurumes storyline in 50 minutes doesn't really work: there's a lot of jumping about, and character moments happen not because they're justified, but because they must because people expect it to happen. Yamcha getting over Bulma with no justified reason is an example of this because Yamcha never goes through that character arc in the story itself: he's just magically dancing with Bulma at the end. Things just... happen. A lot. Goku leaves without saying goodbye to his new friends, too. Overall, I'd prefer watching the original episodes over this movie.

---
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:58 pm Y'know if Toei ever made a Kai for the original Dragon Ball they could always use footage for this movie with the Goku fish catching scene since he is fully clothed.
I did look into this possibility when making T1C, the problem with this is that the scene's background paintings are in the early morning green, and the anime uses many scenes before this (like the wood chopping) with generic daytime lighting.
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:58 pm Interesting that Bulma's dragon radar can detect the dragon balls inside Gurumes stomach? Didn't Bulma say the radar couldn't pick them up if they had been swallowed by a beast?
Correct, at the time the movie released Bulma's suggestion that it may have been swallowed by a crocodile or hippo had been introduced in the manga just a few weeks prior (15th of October vs 20th of December). The way she says it to me definitely implies that she's only guessing, with the suggestion that it's a facet Bulma probably hasn't thought of until now. She's troubleshooting for Goku to try and explain why her Radar may not be picking up the Dragon Ball's signal, but she doesn't know for sure.

IMO it's pretty unlikely that this would have hindered her ability to detect it: caves are no problem for the radar, and in the Oolong episode the Dragon Ball was inside a building when Goku and Bulma arrived.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 10 - DB movie 1 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:04 pm

KBABZ wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:41 pm
- Wow, Gurmes' wish is even more pitiful than Commander Red's!
Bulma's initial idea for a wish for lifetime supply of strawberries was the only wish that has ever been a mood.
- A glittery, shining dream? EW!
I've always preferred the English version of I'll Give you Romance to Romantic Ageru. It's a shame the actual Funi dub was never done to the quality of Carl Finch's opening and ending adaptations.
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And now for my more wordy thoughts:

I feel the introduction of Goku at the beginning of the movie goes by too fast. What I like about the anime is that we spend a good amount of time "sitting" with Goku as he goes about his morning, which is completely lost here, a shame considering he's the central character of pretty much every story. I expect the editors have assumed you've seen Episode 1 of the anime or read the first Chapter of the manga, which I feel is a mistake for this film standing on its own. This isn't the way to introduce someone to Dragon Ball, in my opinion.

I feel the first half of the film suffers from trying to squeeze everything in and having too many elements. In particular I feel meeting Oolong significantly busies things considering how useless he ultimately is to the story. He's only there to fill out the full Dragon Ball Gang from the original arc, but he doesn't benefit the story in any way outside of the cute monster gag in Gurumes' castle. The movie does a few beats differently, but whether they work or not is a crapshoot. For example, I love that Goku is actually surprised that he can stand on the Nimbus, but the rest of the time I generally prefer how the anime handled it.

Speaking of compressing the story, Gurumes having five of the Dragon Balls already sure is a convenient way to make the movie shorter. To me this REALLY detracts from the "hunt for the Dragon Balls" story because, well, they only ever find one other. Hopefully Path to Power will play this better. I realize the anime and manga both did this, but them setting out with three means we get a lot more of the "hunt" aspect. Here everyone pretty much has them already, we just need to get the one from Master Roshi. It removes what I believe is an important element of the original arc, which is that it's a road movie-like story. This film really isn't a road movie like the first arc was, so there's a lot of compression of space as we just pop from location to location. Yamcha's quarry feels practically next-door to Mount Paoz to the point I'm shocked Goku had never been there before.

Overall the movie was fine, but a bit of a mess. Combining the Pilaf Arc and jamming it into the Gurumes storyline in 50 minutes doesn't really work: there's a lot of jumping about, and character moments happen not because they're justified, but because they must because people expect it to happen. Yamcha getting over Bulma with no justified reason is an example of this because Yamcha never goes through that character arc in the story itself: he's just magically dancing with Bulma at the end. Things just... happen. A lot. Goku leaves without saying goodbye to his new friends, too. Overall, I'd prefer watching the original episodes over this movie.
Like Robo said Path to Ultimate Power just did what this movie tried to do so much better. Not that this movie is bad it's a cute little kids fantasy movie. Sleeping Princess in Devil's Castle is about a gajillion times better than Legend of Shen Long mostly because it takes elements from episode 13-15 but really just does its own thing.
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MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:58 pm Y'know if Toei ever made a Kai for the original Dragon Ball they could always use footage for this movie with the Goku fish catching scene since he is fully clothed.
I did look into this possibility when making T1C, the problem with this is that the scene's background paintings are in the early morning green, and the anime uses many scenes before this (like the wood chopping) with generic daytime lighting.
How did you handle it? Just remove it entirely like Harmony Gold or were you able to cut around Goku's privates?
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:58 pm Interesting that Bulma's dragon radar can detect the dragon balls inside Gurumes stomach? Didn't Bulma say the radar couldn't pick them up if they had been swallowed by a beast?
Correct, at the time the movie released Bulma's suggestion that it may have been swallowed by a crocodile or hippo had been introduced in the manga just a few weeks prior (15th of October vs 20th of December). The way she says it to me definitely implies that she's only guessing, with the suggestion that it's a facet Bulma probably hasn't thought of until now. She's troubleshooting for Goku to try and explain why her Radar may not be picking up the Dragon Ball's signal, but she doesn't know for sure.

IMO it's pretty unlikely that this would have hindered her ability to detect it: caves are no problem for the radar, and in the Oolong episode the Dragon Ball was inside a building when Goku and Bulma arrived.
At the end I guess it doesn't matter since this movie is a different story line it cane make up it's own rules.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 10 - DB movie 1 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:12 pm

This isn't really one of my favorites of the three DB films either, due to it mostly being a retread of the first 13 episodes only with Emperor Pilaf, Mai and Shu taken out and replaced with Gurumes. The other main thing missing is of course Goku's transformation into an Oozaru (Great Ape) seeing as there was no logical place for it to be due to the alteration in events relative to the anime so they held it over until Sleeping Princess. Honestly, Path to Power i feel was a better adaptation even though it doesn't really fit in with the others due to having been produced just as GT was getting started on TV in Japan and using said show's animation among other things.

Some other notes

- Pansy was played Tomiko Suzuki, who would later voice young Dende in Z up through the Cell arc.

-Pasta's voice was done by Mami Koyama, basically using her blonde Lunch voice.
DB collection related goals as of now:

1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)

2.) Collect rest of manga

3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 10 - DB movie 1 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Robo4900 » Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:16 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:04 pm Bulma's initial idea for a wish for lifetime supply of strawberries was the only wish that has ever been a mood.
I dunno. There are times, particularly recently, where I've thought it'd be nice to wish to rule the world, if only to take the world out of the hands of the people it's currently in. :lol:

(Will have to read KBABZ's thoughts when I have more time to properly read it; currently just popping in now and then in brief study breaks)
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:12 pm Honestly, Path to Power i feel was a better adaptation even though it doesn't really fit in with the others due to having been produced just as GT was getting started on TV in Japan and using said show's animation among other things.
Yeah, it doesn't fit with the other movies, but most of the movies tend not to fit together anyway. As it stands, the 10th anniversary movie is a far better standalone introduction movie for Dragon Ball, as well as just being a better movie. :lol:
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 10 - DB movie 1 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:25 pm

Robo4900 wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:16 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:04 pm Bulma's initial idea for a wish for lifetime supply of strawberries was the only wish that has ever been a mood.
I dunno. There are times, particularly recently, where I've thought it'd be nice to wish to rule the world, if only to take the world out of the hands of the people it's currently in. :lol:

(Will have to read KBABZ's thoughts when I have more time to properly read it; currently just popping in now and then in brief study breaks)
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:12 pm Honestly, Path to Power i feel was a better adaptation even though it doesn't really fit in with the others due to having been produced just as GT was getting started on TV in Japan and using said show's animation among other things.
Yeah, it doesn't fit with the other movies, but most of the movies tend not to fit together anyway. As it stands, the 10th anniversary movie is a far better standalone introduction movie for Dragon Ball, as well as just being a better movie. :lol:
I felt it worked much needed better with combining the Pilaf arc and bits of the Red Ribbon arc together unlike this, and by not fitting with the other three i was more referring to it's visual design compared to them with having that GT aesthetic which also includes other things such as Goku going from his original gi as in the manga and series to the blue/yellow one he wears in the latter. Although another thing i found interesting was they used the look for Bulma she initially had in the manga with the purple looking hair and yellow colored outfit rather than the blue hair from the anime proper and the pink short dress in both the anime and this movie.
DB collection related goals as of now:

1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)

2.) Collect rest of manga

3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 10 - DB movie 1 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by KBABZ » Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:40 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:58 pm
I did look into this possibility when making T1C, the problem with this is that the scene's background paintings are in the early morning green, and the anime uses many scenes before this (like the wood chopping) with generic daytime lighting.
How did you handle it? Just remove it entirely like Harmony Gold or were you able to cut around Goku's privates?
Oh I kept the scene and cut out the saber tooth cat because it was filler, haha. IMO the Goku nudity here is incidental nudity, not sexual nudity like when Krillin pulls down Bulma's shirt in the Baba arc. There are lots of kids out there who don't see the problem walking around with nothing on, after all, and Goku is very much in that boat.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 10 - DB movie 1 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MyVisionity » Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:58 pm

I really enjoyed rewatching this movie! I might even prefer it to the other two now, we'll see.

I love the pre-credits opening with that narration and title card. The music is one of my favorite pieces in the series, which reappears most notably during the Piccolo/23rd Budoukai episodes.

I like how the movie starts off with Vongo beating up Pansy's dad. That bit of violence really drew me into the film. I like the villains in this movie.

The airfight with Bulma's plane against Pasta was cool, as was Goku versus Yamcha. I like the artwork/animation in that fight.

I liked the exchange in Bulma's camper when she tells Goku to shut up before he even says anything, and then they have the silent reaction shots. I enjoy that kind of humor. I also like how Goku just casually talks with his mouth full.

Did Path To Power borrow its Kamehameha sequence on Roshi's island from this movie?

I enjoyed the ending to this movie, with Pansy giving Gurumes the apple and restoring her land. I think this may be the only DB/DBZ movie where the conflict ends with the villain simply getting an apple.

As for the nature/greed message, I enjoyed it and while it may not be a Toriyama thing, it is a recurring theme within Toei's DB films. I think it works well enough, especially since it was really only Pansy who had any interest in saving her land while the main cast were their usual selfish-asshole selves.

Overall I liked this better than my first viewing. I don't think it's trying to be a substitute for the first arc of the series, and really no movie is/should be. Also to be fair, this movie was only about fifty minutes long while Path To Power is like a half hour longer, so they had more time to retell the story.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 10 - DB movie 1 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:51 am

Don't have strong feelings on this movie. If you want a refresher on the first 13 episodes but don't care much for Pilaf and gang I suppose it's serviceable. As a retelling it doesn't do enough to justify its existence. Path to Power was much better because the GT flavour made it feel more distinct. I've honestly mistaken Pansy for Suno first few times I ever watched this.
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