Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

[Forte224]

Not comparable. Star Trek (real Star Trek, aka nothing after like 2005 at the latest) is about the world and the situations the characters run into as well as how they deal with them. There is a ton of focus on these situations and therefore there are a lot of important details in the Star Trek universe that add up to some really great stories. Each episode is a completely separate story and the characters, although usually really good, don't make extremely noticeable development from episode to episode. Since the details in Star Trek are so important you can easily plug in a new cast in this universe that feels legitimately large and cohesive.

On the other hand, the details in Dragon Ball's world are not important, nor are they clearly defined. Plugging in a new cast would feel pointless, because it would just feel like a new anime where they kept the Dragon Ball logo for marketing purposes. Like, I really don't see the point of wanting a new cast. They might as well just make a brand new anime.

Fair enough point with the Star Trek comparison.

But here's the current problem: Dragon Ball wants to tell more stories.

There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but part of what made original manga such a good read was seeing the character grow and develop with every new story arc. That aspect of the narrative, especially with where Dragon Ball these days wants to tell its stories, can't work because...

a) The main cast's character arcs have either ended or an ending is in place for them
b) the major characters (Goku and Vegeta) have become so stupidly powerful or have stupidly powerful allies (Beerus and Whis) that it reduces the tension immensely

There's nowhere left to go for characters like Goku, Vegeta, Bulma, Gohan, Piccolo and the rest. Their stories, for all intents and purposes, have ended. I don't want to see Krillin shave his head again and regain his fighting spirit. I don't want guys like Tenshinhan and Yamcha to have token cameos to remind fans they still exist. I don't want to see Bulma complaining about her age and getting older. I don't want to see Roshi come out of retirement again for old times sake. I don't want to see Vegeta trying to catch up to Goku in vain. It's all over done. If Dragon Ball wants to tell more stories, it DESPERATELY needs to the move the fuck on already from the old cast. They're beyond spent.

Dragon Ball, as much as it was about following the adventures of a bunch of martial arts, was also about moving forward and recognising when it was time step out of the spotlight and let others carry the torch. Toriyama and Toei may have chickened out on that concept when it came to telling stories that didn't revolve around Goku, but that doesn't others should.

What I'm getting from this is that you're burnt out on Dragon Ball. And if so I get it, I am too, but just go watch a different show. Once again, if there was a new cast, what would there be to make it feel like it's actually Dragon Ball? The world's details are so scarce that without the characters it would be Dragon Ball in name only.

Unfortunately brands make money, so Toei will continue to milk Dragon Ball for all it's worth instead of just ending it since, like you said, the characters' arcs are over. But they won't, so it's just a matter of watching for good animation or just not watching it anymore. But if you want a new cast of characters then watch a different anime, because that's all a Dragon Ball with a new cast would feel like anyway.

[ABED]

My interest in new DB is already razor thin. Getting rid of the thing that makes DB what it is and not just another show about martial artists is the quickest way to get me and others to not care.

a new cast can't really do much worse, and if anything will only improve things.

It won't because it won't be DB. At that point, it's a spin-off.

[Forte224]

My interest in new DB is already razor thin. Getting rid of the thing that makes DB what it is and not just another show about martial artists is the quickest way to get me and others to not care.

And there's this too. I think even the majority of people asking for a new cast would end up being disappointed, because there would be constant comparisons to just how much better the old cast was, specifically Goku.

[Lord Beerus]

Not comparable. Star Trek (real Star Trek, aka nothing after like 2005 at the latest) is about the world and the situations the characters run into as well as how they deal with them. There is a ton of focus on these situations and therefore there are a lot of important details in the Star Trek universe that add up to some really great stories. Each episode is a completely separate story and the characters, although usually really good, don't make extremely noticeable development from episode to episode. Since the details in Star Trek are so important you can easily plug in a new cast in this universe that feels legitimately large and cohesive.

On the other hand, the details in Dragon Ball's world are not important, nor are they clearly defined. Plugging in a new cast would feel pointless, because it would just feel like a new anime where they kept the Dragon Ball logo for marketing purposes. Like, I really don't see the point of wanting a new cast. They might as well just make a brand new anime.

Fair enough point with the Star Trek comparison.

But here's the current problem: Dragon Ball wants to tell more stories.

There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but part of what made original manga such a good read was seeing the character grow and develop with every new story arc. That aspect of the narrative, especially with where Dragon Ball these days wants to tell its stories, can't work because...

a) The main cast's character arcs have either ended or an ending is in place for them
b) the major characters (Goku and Vegeta) have become so stupidly powerful or have stupidly powerful allies (Beerus and Whis) that it reduces the tension immensely

There's nowhere left to go for characters like Goku, Vegeta, Bulma, Gohan, Piccolo and the rest. Their stories, for all intents and purposes, have ended. I don't want to see Krillin shave his head again and regain his fighting spirit. I don't want guys like Tenshinhan and Yamcha to have token cameos to remind fans they still exist. I don't want to see Bulma complaining about her age and getting older. I don't want to see Roshi come out of retirement again for old times sake. I don't want to see Vegeta trying to catch up to Goku in vain. It's all over done. If Dragon Ball wants to tell more stories, it DESPERATELY needs to the move the fuck on already from the old cast. They're beyond spent.

Dragon Ball, as much as it was about following the adventures of a bunch of martial arts, was also about moving forward and recognising when it was time step out of the spotlight and let others carry the torch. Toriyama and Toei may have chickened out on that concept when it came to telling stories that didn't revolve around Goku, but that doesn't others should.

What I'm getting from this is that you're burnt out on Dragon Ball. And if so I get it, I am too, but just go watch a different show. Once again, if there was a new cast, what would there be to make it feel like it's actually Dragon Ball? The world's details are so scarce that without the characters it would be Dragon Ball in name only.

Unfortunately brands make money, so Toei will continue to milk Dragon Ball for all it's worth instead of just ending it since, like you said, the characters' arcs are over. But they won't, so it's just a matter of watching for good animation or just not watching it anymore. But if you want a new cast of characters then watch a different anime, because that's all a Dragon Ball with a new cast would feel like anyway.

I'm not burnt out on Dragon Ball. I'm burned out on what Goku and the gang are doing. And I already commented that if Dragon Ball were to stop telling more stories, I would care just as much about that scenario as I would Dragon Ball telling more stories, which is, not so much. If Dragon Ball wants to tell more stories down the road, go for it. But it needs to let go of the past because there nothing left to extract from the original cast beyond superficial charm and glorified cameos for characters who've fallen so far behind it's almost laughable.

And I just can't stand this idea of that if a Dragon Ball story doesn't have Goku in it, it's not Dragon Ball. I can't stand stand that way of thinking. Again, I'm in no way trying to undermine the importance of Goku's journey. But it's not the only journey that should matter. There are other martial artists that can exist in the Dragon Ball world that can potential provide a unique narrative. And at this current stage, that is desperately needed.

I'm sorry if I feeling like I'm going on and on about this, but I value organic growth and development greatly when it comes to storytelling, and seeing Dragon Ball stay in the creative rut its in is just sad. I love Dragon Ball and I'm game for it continuing its narrative. But the way its done so has felt redundant for the most part. And that's mostly due to the fact that there is nothing left in terms of development for the cast beyond the occasional transformation and power-up. And those narrative tropes show never be a substitute for character growth.

Dragon Ball at its core is about a ragtag group of martial artists who get into ridiculously high stakes battles and go on adventures every once in a while. It was done before and it can be done again with other characters and still feel like Dragon Ball.

[JulieYBM]

Capitalism sucks, y'all. People making their 'creative decisions' for the sake of the greed or financial insecurity. That sucks and should be rectified.

[ABED]

Capitalism sucks, y'all. People making their 'creative decisions' for the sake of the greed or financial insecurity. That sucks and should be rectified.

Yes, because lord know art under socialism is magnificent, not to mention Toriyama NEVER did anything for the money, nor did any reputable artist, including Shakespeare.

It was done before and it can be done again with other characters and still feel like Dragon Ball.

Yes, LIKE Dragon Ball, but not Dragon Ball. There are plenty of other series like it since and like it prior. I get why someone in charge wants to keep it going, but why do you?

I'm sorry if I feeling like I'm going on and on about this, but I value organic growth and development greatly when it comes to storytelling, and seeing Dragon Ball stay in the creative rut its in is just sad. I love Dragon Ball and I'm game for it continuing its narrative.

Most of us do value organic growth, but the rut it's in is because there's no more story left to tell. What do you consider DB's narrative?

[JulieYBM]

Yes, because lord know art under socialism is magnificent, not to mention Toriyama NEVER did anything for the money, nor did any reputable artist, including Shakespeare.

Yeah, things like turning a franchise into an Evergreen franchise don't exist when, y'know, when profit is properly capped and corporations don't own intellectual property and copyrights don't ninety years after a creator's death to expire.

A lot of the dumb ass issues in commercial art boil down to people making these decisions because they're greedy capitalists or they're pandering for the sake of not losing their livelihoods. Those two things need to be removed, which can only be done by rectifying the source of the issue: the economic system under which they are first enacted.

[Matches Malone]

Yeah, things like turning a franchise into an Evergreen franchise don't exist when profit is properly capped and corporations don't own intellectual property and copyrights don't ninety years after a creator's death to expire.

How does this apply to DB exactly ? everyone involved with the franchise from its original creator to the multiple companies that brought it to life still exist.

[ABED]

Yes, because lord know art under socialism is magnificent, not to mention Toriyama NEVER did anything for the money, nor did any reputable artist, including Shakespeare.

Yeah, things like turning a franchise into an Evergreen franchise don't exist when, y'know, when profit is properly capped and corporations don't own intellectual property and copyrights don't ninety years after a creator's death to expire.

A lot of the dumb ass issues in commercial art boil down to people making these decisions because they're greedy capitalists or they're pandering for the sake of not losing their livelihoods. Those two things need to be removed, which can only be done by rectifying the source of the issue: the economic system under which they are first enacted.

First, we don't have capitalism, and your cure is worse than the disease.

I don't like stories going on forever, but it's ridiculous to think any other socio-economic system would prevent this.

[JulieYBM]

Yeah, things like turning a franchise into an Evergreen franchise don't exist when profit is properly capped and corporations don't own intellectual property and copyrights don't ninety years after a creator's death to expire.

How does this apply to DB exactly ? everyone involved with the franchise from its original creator to the multiple companies that brought it to life still exist.

Dragon Ball is thirty-plus years old and has been used to amass massive swaths of money (re: power) within its industry with the mass of that generated profit going towards executives while laborers--like, say, in-between animators as one example--live in poverty and have no bargaining power to say "No, the profits will go to us!". New Dragon Ball is created because, ooh, we need to consolidate a massive amount of money (re: power) in the hands of a few even more so than we have for the past thirty years. Now, expand this to the entire world and not just two or three companies. This is what I mean by the system being the issue for any lack of creative integrity.

Now, imagine a system where this isn't possible. Resources to maintain a high-quality of life are not arbitrarily restricted and are instead distributed democratically in a manner that never leaves any single member of the labor force thinking "Damn, I have to do this or that else I can't even eat!" despite the massive wealth in first world nations. You go to the hospital, you get seen, you get treated, you go home, not a dime out of pocket. Similarly, you make something and you make it because you want to, not because you're desperate to feed your family or keep a roof over your head in one of the world's most plentiful nations.

Dragon Ball stops being made and is finally allowed to die if A.) It massively crashes or B.) The capitalist system is wiped out. Ironically, capitalism is all about Boom-Bust Cycles.

[ABED]

Yeah, things like turning a franchise into an Evergreen franchise don't exist when profit is properly capped and corporations don't own intellectual property and copyrights don't ninety years after a creator's death to expire.

How does this apply to DB exactly ? everyone involved with the franchise from its original creator to the multiple companies that brought it to life still exist.

Dragon Ball is thirty-plus years old and has been used to amass massive swaths of money (re: power) within its industry with the mass of that generated profit going towards executives while laborers--like, say, in-between animators as one example--live in poverty and have no bargaining power to say "No, the profits will go to us!". New Dragon Ball is created because, ooh, we need to consolidate a massive amount of money (re: power) in the hands of a few even more so than we have for the past thirty years. Now, expand this to the entire world and not just two or three companies. This is what I mean by the system being the issue for any lack of creative integrity.

Now, imagine a system where this isn't possible. Resources to maintain a high-quality of life are not arbitrarily restricted and are instead distributed democratically in a manner that never leaves any single member of the labor force thinking "Damn, I have to do this or that else I can't even eat!" despite the massive wealth in first world nations. You go to the hospital, you get seen, you get treated, you go home, not a dime out of pocket. Similarly, you make something and you make it because you want to, not because you're desperate to feed your family or keep a roof over your head in one of the world's most plentiful nations.

Dragon Ball stops being made and is finally allowed to die if A.) It massively crashes or B.) The capitalist system is wiped out. Ironically, capitalism is all about Boom-Bust Cycles.

We don't have capitalism! I can't stress this point enough. What we have is a mixed economy.

[JulieYBM]

How does this apply to DB exactly ? everyone involved with the franchise from its original creator to the multiple companies that brought it to life still exist.

Dragon Ball is thirty-plus years old and has been used to amass massive swaths of money (re: power) within its industry with the mass of that generated profit going towards executives while laborers--like, say, in-between animators as one example--live in poverty and have no bargaining power to say "No, the profits will go to us!". New Dragon Ball is created because, ooh, we need to consolidate a massive amount of money (re: power) in the hands of a few even more so than we have for the past thirty years. Now, expand this to the entire world and not just two or three companies. This is what I mean by the system being the issue for any lack of creative integrity.

Now, imagine a system where this isn't possible. Resources to maintain a high-quality of life are not arbitrarily restricted and are instead distributed democratically in a manner that never leaves any single member of the labor force thinking "Damn, I have to do this or that else I can't even eat!" despite the massive wealth in first world nations. You go to the hospital, you get seen, you get treated, you go home, not a dime out of pocket. Similarly, you make something and you make it because you want to, not because you're desperate to feed your family or keep a roof over your head in one of the world's most plentiful nations.

Dragon Ball stops being made and is finally allowed to die if A.) It massively crashes or B.) The capitalist system is wiped out. Ironically, capitalism is all about Boom-Bust Cycles.

We don't have capitalism! I can't stress this point enough. What we have is a mixed economy.

It's the capitalist aspects of this 'mixed economy' that's actively eating the poor and giving us Dragon Ball for the sake of executives buying a new expensive condo or yacht.

[SupremeKai25]

If Boruto proves anything, it's that many people find new gen stories attractive. The internet haters might be very vocal about it, and yet Boruto was top 2 Tokyo TV franchise in 2019 based on sales and revenues.

[Yasai9001]

My ideal sequel would be a sequel where the focus is on characters that aren't given as much spotlight such as Krillin, Tien, Yamcha, etc, as we focus on the next generation (Goten, Trunks, Pan, Oob, etc). It doesn't have to be about big fights, but them wanting to balance their normal lives with the abnormal, as well as Martial Arts.

It'd be an interesting way to delve deeper into the lives of the individual characters and add layers to them as they go about with personal challenges, not physical ones per se. That's just my ideal sequel, though. Of course, something would have to be Dragon Ball related, meaning nice adventures, which opens up an opportunity for more world building on Earth.

[Lord Beerus]

Yes, LIKE Dragon Ball, but not Dragon Ball. There are plenty of other series like it since and like it prior. I get why someone in charge wants to keep it going, but why do you?

You know what I mean when I say "like Dragon Ball." I mean, it won't be any less than what was Dragon Ball was distilled to its core before it.

I don't want it keep Dragon Ball going on. Where have I ever said "I want Dragon Ball to tell more stories"? I'm simply stating the obvious in how Dragon Ball want to tell more stories, because it very much is doing that and has been doing so since 2013 with no signs of stopping.

Most of us do value organic growth, but the rut it's in is because there's no more story left to tell. What do you consider DB's narrative?

And that's why must ideal Dragon Ball sequel is to detach itself from a cast of characters that have no story left to tell and move on to blank state to start something new, different and fresh.

Dragon Ball narrative boils down to a group of martial artists who take pride in their craft and unbeknownst to themselves grow and develop in unique ways based on how they interact with other martial artist or how the world around them may change.

[Matches Malone]

Dragon Ball is thirty-plus years old and has been used to amass massive swaths of money (re: power) within its industry with the mass of that generated profit going towards executives while laborers--like, say, in-between animators as one example--live in poverty and have no bargaining power to say "No, the profits will go to us!".

This problem isn't a DB one, or even an anime one, it's a profession issue. The more people you have in a specific profession, the less negotiating room they have. Animators, video game developers, teachers, people with business degrees, etc. are going up each year, making them unfortunately expendable. This isn't a US issue either, it's happening everywhere, as there are simply too many people looking for work in specific areas for their well being to matter. You don't like what's offered to you ? there's a 1000 other people waiting in line who'll take it, or even less. It's wrong, and people should matter, but unfortunately, the world is simply too $$$ focused to care. That's one reason why we're beginning to see so much automation, why bother pay a human when you can make a one time payment on a machine ? Will it put millions on the street ? yes, but who cares, the main thing is the bottom line.

If Boruto proves anything, it's that many people find new gen stories attractive. The internet haters might be very vocal about it, and yet Boruto was top 2 Tokyo TV franchise in 2019 based on sales and revenues.

Boruto is well on its way to its 200th episode with no signs of it slowing down. The quality may not be where I wish it was, but there's no denying that a next gen show can be successful.

[ABED]

Yes, LIKE Dragon Ball, but not Dragon Ball. There are plenty of other series like it since and like it prior. I get why someone in charge wants to keep it going, but why do you?

You know what I mean when I say "like Dragon Ball." I mean, it won't be any less than what was Dragon Ball was distilled to its core before it.

I don't want it keep Dragon Ball going on. Where have I ever said "I want Dragon Ball to tell more stories"? I'm simply stating the obvious in how Dragon Ball want to tell more stories, because it very much is doing that and has been doing so since 2013 with no signs of stopping.

Most of us do value organic growth, but the rut it's in is because there's no more story left to tell. What do you consider DB's narrative?

And that's why must ideal Dragon Ball sequel is to detach itself from a cast of characters that have no story left to tell and move on to blank state to start something new, different and fresh.

Dragon Ball narrative boils down to a group of martial artists who take pride in their craft and unbeknownst to themselves grow and develop in unique ways based on how they interact with other martial artist or how the world around them may change.

You know what's fresh? A completely different series that isn't DB. DB's narrative is about a specific group of martial artists. Your synopsis is too broad. If you want a series that tells that story tell it about a new group of characters and don't call it Dragon Ball. It won't be fresh and if it's completely detatched from anything we care about besides the McGuffins, then I don't think people will care. It's the characters people care about. Using the name and the world is not a blank slate.

Matches, the idea that automation causes unemployment is a myth.

[Matches Malone]

Matches, the idea that automation causes unemployment is a myth.

The more machines you've got doing things, the less humans you need. If every store switches to automated checkouts, then there'll be no need for human cashiers. If everyone starts relying on machine based translators, there'll be less need for human translators. Why hire people when you can make a one time payment for a machine that'll do whatever you want, for as long as you want, without any salary ? If you're not convinced with this, just look up topics about the number of jobs that will be lost within the next 5-10 years as automation becomes more mainstream. I like to be right, but this is one instant I hope I'm not, so hopefully it is a myth.

[Lord Beerus]

You know what's fresh? A completely different series that isn't DB. DB's narrative is about a specific group of martial artists. Your synopsis is too broad. If you want a series that tells that story tell it about a new group of characters and don't call it Dragon Ball. It won't be fresh and if it's completely detatched from anything we care about besides the McGuffins, then I don't think people will care. It's the characters people care about. Using the name and the world is not a blank slate.

People can care for a new cast of characters if there are written well enough. And that itself requires time. Much like how it took years for the original Dragon Ball to build and develop its core cast.

Dragon Ball centred itself around what a handful martial artists get up to. Dragon Ball is basically Wuxia. That may sound too broad for some people, but that's because Dragon Ball's premise is not complicated or unique. It's an incredibly simple premise that was just executed in a very satisfying manner. Taking that concept and applying it to a new cast of characters doesn't make it any less of what Dragon Ball represents: high fantasy martial arts adventures.

[JulieYBM]

Machines are there to scare labor and keep it in line. Your employer hates you.