Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
Hello, ladies, gentlemen, and everyone between and beyond, and welcome to week 23 of the first Dragon Ball rewatch of the decade.
We're doing five episodes a week, and we'll be watching every single episode of Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, and Dragon Ball GT. All 508 episodes. Plus the TV specials and the movies.
I encourage you all to watch in Japanese with subtitles, especially if you have never done so before, but watch along in whichever way brings you the most joy.
In contrast to last week, I think KBABZ and I may have gone overboard on the trivia this time.
There was talk last week of moving to six or seven episodes per week. If anyone is interested in that, please don't hesitate to say so. I don't think there's been enough interest in the idea yet to make the change, but if people want to do that, I'm happy to make that change.
Episode 101 - The Martial Arts Tournament Concludes! And Then…!! Dub title: The Fallen / The Big Finale!
Originally aired 17th of February 1988
Episode director: Daisuke Nishio
Animation supervisor: Masayuki Uchiyama
Goku dodges the Kikōhō by a hair’s breath, jumping into the air! However, at this rate if Goku falls down it will mean his defeat. Goku brings out his final gamble! He body slams Tenshinhan using the recoil from a Kamehamaha fired with the last of his power!! Just as it seemed to everyone that it was Goku’s victory, Goku strikes a car! Having landed later by just a tiny margin, Tenshinhan is the champion!! And thus the curtain closes on this intense battle. However, after the tournament ends, Kuririn is killed by somebody!!
Anime-only/filler content: The celebration in the streets after Ten wins, the Dragon Ball Gang heading out to dinner.
Episode 102 - Kuririn’s Death – A Terrible Conspiracy!! Dub title: Enter King Piccolo / A Horrible Plot
Originally aired 24th of February 1988
Episode director: Kazuhisa Takenouchi
Animation supervisor: Tomekichi Takeuchi
Intensely angered at Kuririn’s death, Goku goes after the one who attacked Kuririn, Tambourine. Meanwhile, Kame-Sen’nin is surprised to learn that this incident was the work of Piccolo Daimao. Piccolo Daimao was a villain who had long ago plunged the world into terror, and was supposedly sealed away through the Mafūba, the secret technique of Kame-Sen’nin’s master, Mutaito. But Pilaf and his gang had revived Piccolo Daimaō, plotting world domination! Kame-Sen’nin and the others are anxious over Goku, but…
Anime-only/filler content: Roshi's flashback to and exposition of Daimao's reign of terror (see Trivia notes below).
Episode 103 - The Terror of Demon King Piccolo!! Dub title: Tambourine Attacks! / The Terror Of Piccolo
Originally aired 2nd of March 1988
Episode director: Yoshihiro Ueda
Animation supervisor: Mitsuo Shindo
Goku finally finds Tambourine, Daimaō’s underling who had killed Kuririn and stolen Goku’s Dragon Ball. Goku challenges Tambourine to avenge Kuririn, but he has used up all his energy during the tournament, and instead of avenging Kuririn he is defeated by Tambourine!! After defeating Goku, Tambourine heads to Piccolo Daimaō’s place with the Dragon Ball. Wishing to use the power of the Dragon Balls to have his youth restored, Piccolo Daimaō is afraid of the Mafūba, and orders Tambourine to kill famous martial artists.
Anime-only/filler content: Kuririn being put in a bag and the flashback to his death, Goku flying fast around Tambourine, the last four minutes where Tambourine kills King Chappa and Panputto.
Episode 104 - Come Back to Life, Son Goku!! Dub title: Mark of the Demon / Is Goku Alive?!
Originally aired 9th of March 1988
Episode director: Minoru Okazaki
Animation supervisor: Minoru Maeda
Tambourine kills well-known martial artists one after the other. Piccolo gives birth to a new warrior, Cymbal, in order to collect the Dragon Balls. After returning home while worrying about Goku, Kame-Sen’nin and the others think of calling forth Shenlong to defeat Demon King Piccolo, but… Meanwhile, Goku has survived, and wanders through the forest looking for food. Luckily finding a large cooked fish, Goku eats until he is full! However, the suspicious man Yajirobe appears before him.
Anime-only/filler content: The opening with Bacterian being killed, Goku looking for food in the forest, the villagers finding the body of Manwolf
Episode 105 - The Strange Guy – Enter Yajirobe!! Dub title: Here Comes Yajirobe / Watch Out For Yajirobe
Originally aired 16th of March 1988
Episode director: Yoshihiro Ueda
Animation supervisor: Masayuki Uchiyama
“Give me my fish back!” Yajirobe demands of Goku. Goku sees that Yajirobe has a Dragon Ball, and mistakes him for one of Daimaō’s underlings. The two have an intense fight, but Goku realizes his mistake and meekly asks for Yajirobe’s forgiveness. Cymbal appears before the duo, and is searching for the Dragon Balls! He tries to steal Yajirobe’s Dragon Ball, but is in turn sliced in half. Meanwhile, Kame-Sen’nin sets out in search of the Dragon Balls with Tenshinhan and Chaozu…
Anime-only/filler content: The Dragon Ball Gang having to move to the archipelago, Pilaf trying to show Daimao a dirty magazine.
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Interesting trivia:
Spoiler:
We've passed 100 episodes! Z's 100th episode in July 1991 had Gohan return to fight Frieza after the people of Namek were resurrected, while Super had Kale transform into the Legendary Super Saiyan for the first time during the Tournament of Power in July 2017. GT ended at episode 64, although the second Dr. Slump anime, which directly followed on from GT, had much of the same staff, and had a Dragon Ball crossover episode, reached its 46th episode in June 1999.
Dragon Ball's 100th episode is the only one of these not to air in June or July.
Funimation added Roshi telling Tenshinhan telepathically that the crowd cheering for him no longer has any hatred for him (which doesn't really make any sense...); this is a corruption of what was originally said in Japanese (which was correctly rendered in the Blue Water dub), which is simply that the crowd is laying praise on him -- his days of having hatred and hostility directed at him are over.
Current recurring death tallies:
Kuririn: 1
The moon: 1
Starting with Episode 102, the opening visuals have been completely redone, for the first and only time in the original series. It focuses primarily on elements from the Red Ribbon Army arc (Kid Goku searching for Dragon Balls) and the new Daimao arc, including foreshadowing the destruction of King Furry's castle (which had happened just under a month before Ep 102 aired). Ironically, Toriyama dropped almost all of the defining elements used for the Red Ribbon Army portion of this intro straight after the Daimao arc, including Nyoi-bo, Goku's tail and his small size. Further, Goku would never search for the Dragon Balls again until the break before the Cell Games, where adventure is long behind him. It's possible Toei assumed Toriyama wouldn't age Goku up and would return to another Dragon Ball hunt arc soon after Daimao.
Harmony Gold's 1989 dub of Dragon Ball episodes 1-5 and movies 1 and 3 mostly used visuals from this second set of opening visuals, in a textless form; this textless version is not generally available anywhere else (possibly this is one reason Funimation didn't use the second OP visuals on their home video releases).
Also starting with Episode 102, several of the backgrounds for the end credits have been swapped out, making the third version of this ED. Goku, Roshi and Kuririn flying above the mountains has been replaced with Karin giving the peace sign in front of Karin Tower (from Chapter 151's title page where Karin gives Goku the Super God Water). Lunch outside Kame House is replaced with Yajirobe and Goku on a motorbike in the desert (from Chapter 140, the aftermath of Yajirobe killing Cymbal). The Dragon Ball Gang group shot has been replaced with the updated cast to include Kuririn, Lunch, Ten and Chaozu, taken from Chapter 134 (where Kuririn dies at the very end). The ending credits visuals will change one more time, for the 23rd Tenkaichi arc.
We also begin hearing music from the January 1988 session of Kikuchi's music here; it is the final TV session recorded for the original series. Two further TV sessions would be recorded after this, the M7XX session at the start of Z, and the M17XX session at the start of the Great Saiyaman arc; all other new music introduced throughout the Z series came from the movies, which were being released twice yearly.
In the Funimation dub, Chaozu says "Who could be so cruel?" in reaction to Kuririn's death. This is rather out of character considering he was complicit with Ten's torture of Inoshi-Kacho fairly recently.
The anime version of Kuririn's death is a significant departure from the manga. In the manga, it occurs while the Gang is still in the Tournament grounds: Kuririn leaves after Ten offers to pay for Goku's dinner, and is killed just after Ten talks about finding a new place to settle. In the anime they all head into town for said dinner and Goku only realizes he's missing his Dragon Ball when they walk into the door, allowing Kuririn to look at his friends one last time. Goku famously doesn't feel like eating, and senses Kuririn's death as like a pane of glass shattering before him.
This also means that the Dragon Ball Gang completely abandon their dinner and later head to Kame House. Hope they paid!
The anime also takes notable liberties regarding Daimao's reign of terror: the manga only says he plunged the world into darkness long ago and was sealed away by Mutaito with the Mafuba, a scene that lasts just over a page. The anime extends this into a ten-minute-long flashback written by Keiji Terui, showing Daimao's minions destroying a city, terrorizing the populace and engaging with an army. Everything at the temple is filler too, including Mutaito's initial fight with Daimao, and years-long exile.
Crane turning to the path of evil from that moment (and him and Roshi fighting together) is also an invention of the anime, meaning that when Mutaio finally does use the Mafu-ba, Crane isn't there when Daimao is sealed like he is in the manga.
The Funimation dub adds Mutaito's temple as the last bastion of hope for humanity, with Roshi and Crane reflecting the army's attack back as the single move that defeated all of Daimao's forces at last. The Japanese version is mostly silent during these temple scenes. Mutaito also leaves through the shame of defeat, whereas the Japanese version suggests it was to start developing the way to defeat Daimao immediately. Blue Water's dub adhered to the original Japanese intent here.
Funimation's recap at the beginning of episode 103 refers to Piccolo as an alien, even though this episode was broadcast nearly two years before that reveal, in Japan. Blue Water's dub does not do this.
Funimation's dub also changes Goku calling for the Kinto'Un (and failling) to Goku shouting out that he'll have his revenge on Tambourine for killing Kuririn. Blue Water's dub errs closer to the original Japanese script.
Funimation added Yajirobe referring to his food as his "Breaktice", which -- as far as I can tell -- doesn't appear to have any particular basis in the original Japanese, and didn't show up in the Blue Water dub.
Funimation moved Cymbal teasing Yajirobe about him "dancing" to after he's done firing lightning, having him teasingly say "You're a good dancer", replacing the Japanese and Blue Water versions having him deliver a second teasing line.
As a sidenote, the available preserved recordings of the Blue Water dub from episode 102 onwards are unwatchable due to speed and skipping issues on the captures. To anyone watching this version, I salute your dedication to this underappreciated, improperly-preserved dub.
As a further sidenote while we're talking about dub changes -- the French dub refused to give Yajirobe a name for a REALLY long time.
Bacterian's picture on Tambourine's hit-list comes from the title page of Chapter 36, his match against Kuririn in the 21st TB.
Of all the depicted deaths of the martial artists in the anime, only Giran's was actually in the manga (as shown in Episode 106 next week). He, along with Nam, Ranfan, Bacterian, and a human Manwolf, were depicted in the manga on Tambourine's list of martial artists. Giran and Nam are also the only ones visibly shown coming back to life in Chapter 165.
Man-Worlf's dead body drifting down the river was cut from Funimation's TV edit. Blue Water kept it, but edited out the spear piercing his body.
Kuririn as a skeleton was removed from Funi's TV edit, as was Piccolo burping after having a drink.
Funimation allegedly made some weird edits to Cymbal's death in the TV edit so he continues groaning after being sliced in half, then Goku gets cross and blows him up.
In the manga, the Dragon Ball Gang retreats to Kame House. In the anime they also move Kame House to an archipelago for safety, leaving a plot-hole as to how Tambourine finds Yamucha later.
Yajirobe's Dragon Ball is an abberation, as he's able to punch a hole through it for a string; this hole disappears once Daimao takes it off of Goku after stopping his heart. This implies that the Dragon Balls can take damage yet also repair themselves. When Roshi wore a Dragon Ball around his neck in Chapter 4 / Episode 3, it used a little suction cup-like attachment on the string.
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Episode summaries, airdates, and titles courtesy of Kanzenshuu's episode guide. Filler breakdowns and Dragon Ball logo provided, and trivia co-written, by KBABZ.
Last edited by Robo4900 on Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:30 am, edited 3 times in total.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.
That ending. To this day, Krillin's first death is the most shocking ending to an arc I've ever seen. The way the arc goes from a happy atmospheric tournament to a world threatening situation was perfect. I really like Yajerobe here and wish he was used more after the Saiyan arc. I can't help but wonder how things would've turned out had Yamcha's leg not been broken, as surely he would've completely changed the outcome of things in the heroes' favor.
The Piccolo Daimao arc is really where the full on turning point of the series started to happen, and Kuririn's/Krillin's very first death was the catalyst which got the ball rolling in terms of trending more toward the action based tone of DBZ although not quite yet in the far out spacey sci fi direction. It's definitely one of my favorite parts of the original series along with the 23rd Budokai alone with the Saiyan and Cell arcs which comprise my favorites in Z.
It's interesting and rather funny that FUNimation added the one thing there in Dragon Ball's dub about Piccolo Daimao being an alien, likely because his offspring and of course Goku had already been revealed as this in Z's prior to that despite when the former arc originally aired on TV back in 1988 it was still quite a while before that would be written by Toriyama in the manga and even further still before the anime got around to it.
DB collection related goals as of now:
1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)
If memory serves, Kuririn's death comes as a complete shock in the manga, whereas in the anime, Goku has an uneasy feeling for much of the end of the episode before sensing Kuririn's death. I don't have a preference. Both work extremely well.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
ABED wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:24 pm
If memory serves, Kuririn's death comes as a complete shock in the manga, whereas in the anime, Goku has an uneasy feeling for much of the end of the episode before sensing Kuririn's death. I don't have a preference. Both work extremely well.
Manga version is more shocking and unexpected, while anime version kinda spoils something bad is going to happen but in exchange it provides some cool tension. Matter of preference really.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta
ABED wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:24 pm
If memory serves, Kuririn's death comes as a complete shock in the manga, whereas in the anime, Goku has an uneasy feeling for much of the end of the episode before sensing Kuririn's death. I don't have a preference. Both work extremely well.
Manga version is more shocking and unexpected, while anime version kinda spoils something bad is going to happen but in exchange it provides some cool tension. Matter of preference really.
Yeah. This is discussed in the Manga Review of Awesomeness, but the anime version adds bucketloads of surrealness to this scene that honestly REALLY works. It feels almost like a dream of something that never happened, it's a weird yet totally appropriate direction to handle it. I mean, Goku not being hungry after his fight with Tien speaks VOLUMES towards how he's feeling in that moment. And Goku being able to just "sense" something happened for me emphasizes the bond between the two.
Also ABED, I actually broke down the differences in the Trivia section!
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:41 pm
It's interesting and rather funny that FUNimation added the one thing there in Dragon Ball's dub about Piccolo Daimao being an alien, likely because his offspring and of course Goku had already been revealed as this in Z's prior to that despite when the former arc originally aired on TV back in 1988 it was still quite a while before that would be written by Toriyama in the manga and even further still before the anime got around to it.
Oh you haven't seen anything yet. Be prepared to hear Daimao say "I've travelled all over the galaxy and NEVER met anyone as persistent as you!" or for Goku to realize in the 23rd WMAT that Kami "is an alien!!".
The tournament finale in episode 101 is a really well done episode. It might be one of the series' best. Tenshinhan and Goku falling through the air is a great choice and memorable. I like Goku getting hit by the car at the last moment. It's both funny and a nice touch.
Kuririn's murder was an interesting direction to take.
The Piccolo Daimao flashback sequence was nice. I enjoyed seeing how much destruction his underlings caused and watching them terrorize everybody. I liked how they made Piccolo himself appear larger than life as he runs throughout the countryside destroying everything. It makes you wonder in retrospect whether or not he was actually able to become giant-sized and wreak havoc.
I like seeing the Mutaito school facing off against Piccolo. His theme music is fitting. It's kinda like someone is being dragged through a never-ending field of shit or something like that.
A maou or daimaou is basically a really powerful demon king or evil ruler. In Japanese it's another name for Satan/The Devil. Interesting that there is no subtitle note for this one, but then again, Mandelin doesn't normally explain the character names (Roshi/Baba/Gyuumaou) if I recall. It doesn't really bother me.
It's nice to see Pilaf and company again.
I like Tambourine as a villain. Ryūsei Nakao gives him a nasty voice. You really believe the guy is an evil demon. I like how deadly he is.
Tambourine refers to himself as a mazoku, which means a demon/the demon race, or in some cases a particular class of demons. Mandelin chooses to leave this one untranslated as well, with no note to be found. In this case I can understand it being problematic for many. Steve Simmons translates mazoku as "Demon Clan" for DBZ, which is its literal meaning. I can't say I agree with that, but thought it was worth noting.
I thought it was nice how Lunch reacted to Kuririn's death. It makes sense given their time together at Kame House.
Piccolo drinking the Melon soda and sleeping with his eyes open tell the audience just how wacky this guy is. This might be the final arc in Dragon Ball that has as much gag humor as it does, before the shift into the more serious tone of the upcoming arcs.
I like how gross and horrifying Piccolo giving birth is. Kids love that kind of stuff.
In episode 104, I'm not sure whether that bit with the fairy in the honey flower is supposed to be a dirty joke or not. Speaking of dirty, nice perverted moment between Bulma and Roshi at Kame House.
Also of note is that Tambourine was Ryuusei Nakao's first fairly significant villianous role of note in the anime unless i'm mistaken, before he would eventually go on to voice Freeza about two years later which soon became his signature character in the franchise. Still, it's cool to hear that distinctive voice paired alongside another evil character before the one it would become most synonymous with.
DB collection related goals as of now:
1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:19 am
Also of note is that Tambourine was Ryuusei Nakao's first fairly significant villianous role of note in the anime unless i'm mistaken, before he would eventually go on to voice Freeza about two years later which soon became his signature character in the franchise. Still, it's cool to hear that distinctive voice paired alongside another evil character before the one it would become most synonymous with.
Co-incidentally, both characters kill Krillin senselessly and cause Goku to go absolutely LIVID, standing out from other villains.
I really liked this saga. I mentioned it last week, but that twist with having Krillin being killed right at the very end of the 22nd Tournament caught me off guard.
The thing I love the most is just how personal the conflict is this time around. When Goku found that Krillin was killed in cold blood, it felt natural with how devastated he was. How I saw it, Goku cared more about avenging his friends' deaths, with saving the rest of the world just being a side effect of killing Daimao. Really showed off what Goku was willing to do to bring them back.
Another thing I liked was how they integrate Pilaf back into the story, always enjoy watching him and his cronies try to pull of a big scheme. Having him as the main catalyst of the saga's story with releasing Daimao from his seal in another attempt to get the Dragon Balls is creative. (Instead of just being like "Oh no Daimao just somehow magically broke free for no reason because he's just so evil and strong!!1!11")
Anyways, great thread Robo, i'll make sure to drop by next week as well.
First time Dragon Ball fan as of March 2020. Still learning the ropes. Nothing much else to say,
I agree about Kuririn's death being a shock... It was completely terrifying to me as a kid when I first saw this stuff; and it only gets more surreal and weird as it goes on... Piccolo Daimao being this giant green thing that gives birth to demon eggs from his mouth, drinks melon soda, sleeps with his eyes open, and nearly conquered the world a long time ago?... It's surreally horrifying. I love it.
Pilaf coming back is fun. Also creates a neat contrast, showing us how far we've come... Pilaf was a credible threat back at the start, but now you'd think he's a joke... But now he's in way over his head; he's unleashed this demon thing, and everyone is screwed.
I try to avoid any ideas of DB and Z having any separation other than Toriyama putting in a timeskip (because Dragon Ball is one continuous story that somewhat retools itself between every arc), but Piccolo is certainly a tonal turning point in the story. From here on out, character deaths are a regular occurance in Dragon Ball storylines, and Piccolo builds on the escalation we've had since the beginning of Red Ribbon in terms of villain-centric storytelling, with the villains becoming more despicable and threatening as we go on. The thing is, Dragon Ball is constantly evolving, and I think if someone's only seen Z before they see DB, the Piccolo Daimao arc is the moment when they realise "Oh, I understand now" in regards to how a show that started with the Pilaf arc became a show that did the Saiyan, Namek, and Cell arcs. (Though I think most such people will have already felt a lot of that by the time the 22nd Tenkaichi was underway)
But, one thing I wanted to touch on -- which I could've waited on, but now is as good a time as any -- is that, much as it's easy to point to the start of Z as the key point when Dragon Ball reboots itself (5-year timeskip, Goku now has a son, Lunch is gone, Piccolo and Goku immediately team up, Raditz immediately shows up and reveals Goku's alien origins, etc.), really this has been happening slowly for quite a while, and will still be happening well into the Freeza arc; key differences people often associate with being "Z" have been creeping in all along, really. Red Ribbon introduced villain-centric storytelling, Piccolo Daimao put an end to the Dragon Ball hunting storylines, and ended with Goku saying goodbye to the Nyoi'Bo, 23rd Tenkaichi brought about Goku being an adult (and him marrying Chichi), Saiyan arc junks Lunch, and introduces Gohan and aliens, Freeza arc introduces Vegeta as a protagonist, and Super Saiyan tranformations...
I've harped on about this a few times, but I do 100% stand by the idea that DB and Z aren't separate, and 99% of what people imagine as separating the two, actually is a slow evolution that happens starting from right at the beginning of DB, and stretches on well into Z. And here, with the tone shift Piccolo Daimao introduces, we have one of the key turning points.
also, lol... KBABZ has a point; he and I cowrite the trivia (in fact, most weeks he writes more trivia than I do), and he writes the filler breakdowns, so if you're thanking me, be sure to thank him too.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.
The major shift that occurs with the Daimao arc is not just tone (I've always said that Daimao is the earliest "Z-style arc"), but also in direction. This is the first arc in Dragon Ball that is ALL about defeating a credible villain, with said defeat being the primary task of the arc. This would become the recurring story direction for every single (Toriyama) arc henceforth, with the Great Saiyaman diversion being a brief exception. Never again will we have a true Dragon Ball hunt like in the old days, and Tournament arcs are soon to be on their way out as well. From this point on, Villain Arcs rule the roost.
One thing I think gets overlooked in this arc is how much Goku cares about Krillin. He didn't just get initially angry over his death, he was angry for a good part of the arc. It's rare to see Goku make so many mistakes out of sadness for someone's death, and it really helped develop his character.
Robo4900 wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:24 amI 100% stand by the idea that DB and Z aren't separate, and 99% of what people imagine as separating the two, actually is a slow evolution that happens starting from right at the beginning of DB, and stretches on well into Z. And here, with the tone shift Piccolo Daimao introduces, we have one of the key turning points.
I've read a lot of reasons behind why fans think DB and Z needed to be separate, but it seems like not many of them (at least in America) know that Toriyama's original manga was one story under one name, Dragon Ball. Torishima, Toriyama's former editor, said the only reason they were separated was to get a bigger budget for marketing, it had nothing to do with the story. The idea was suggested by a new producer they brought on, but originally they were just going to continue the story with Raditz's arrival being episode 154 of Dragon Ball. If you removed the opening and ending credits, no one would notice a difference between the 2 shows.
In terms of DB's tone shift, it started happening when Tao was introduced, and just kept getting more serious with each arc until the Buu arc brought the fun tone from the earlier arcs back. American fans act like DB's tone went from one extreme to another, when in reality there's 3 and a half arcs of serious material before Raditz even arrives.
Matches Malone wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:14 am
In terms of DB's tone shift, it started happening when Tao was introduced, and just kept getting more serious with each arc until the Buu arc brought the fun tone from the earlier arcs back. American fans act like DB's tone went from one extreme to another, when in reality there's 3 and a half arcs of serious material before Raditz even arrives.
Indeed; but it's not like the goofiness truly ever goes away, though, to be honest!
The driving episode, for instance, is one of the funniest things to happen in the entire franchise.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.
Robo4900 wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:43 am
Indeed; but it's not like the goofiness truly ever goes away, though, to be honest!
Of course not, but unlike the first 2 arcs and the first half of the RRA arc, there were actual threats to the characters' lives. Tao would've killed Goku if not for his 4 star ball for example. Unlike Roshi who wanted to teach Goku a lesson by defeating him, Tien wanted to kill him at first. Then of course there's the death of Krillin, Roshi, and Chiatzu (would it have been so hard to give him an easier name ?) in the Piccolo arc.
Robo4900 wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:43 am
Indeed; but it's not like the goofiness truly ever goes away, though, to be honest!
Of course not, but unlike the first 2 arcs and the first half of the RRA arc, there were actual threats to the characters' lives. Tao would've killed Goku if not for his 4 star ball for example. Unlike Roshi who wanted to teach Goku a lesson by defeating him, Tien wanted to kill him at first. Then of course there's the death of Krillin, Roshi, and Chiatzu (would it have been so hard to give him an easier name ?) in the Piccolo arc.
Very true.
Matches Malone wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:48 am
Chiatzu (would it have been so hard to give him an easier name ?)
I think Mandelin just calls him Chaozu; would've been nice if the dubs had gone with this simpler romanisation.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.
Robo4900 wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:43 am
Indeed; but it's not like the goofiness truly ever goes away, though, to be honest!
Of course not, but unlike the first 2 arcs and the first half of the RRA arc, there were actual threats to the characters' lives. Tao would've killed Goku if not for his 4 star ball for example. Unlike Roshi who wanted to teach Goku a lesson by defeating him, Tien wanted to kill him at first. Then of course there's the death of Krillin, Roshi, and Chiatzu (would it have been so hard to give him an easier name ?) in the Piccolo arc.
Goofiness is always there, but Toriyama plays it as a funny string to pluck during all the drama.
My belief since watching all of OG-DB for the first time back in 2011 has been that when Krillin dies, the story is effectively what most people think of when they think of Dragon Ball Z (as opposed to what they think OG-DB is). There's high drama and stakes most of the time and there's a lot of anguish and pain, and of course giant ki attacks that blow up cities/mountains. IMO this arc is arguably the most trying and sympathetic time for Goku simply because he's a kid at this point. He's more emotionally vulnerable and impulsive, and as we'll see later he takes some really SERIOUS injuries that we just don't see later (outside of Recoome breaking Gohan's neck I suppose).
