The push for GT at the end of Z

[WittyUsername]

I never got the impression that Toei was pushing for GT in the final episodes of Z. The party episode just seemed like it was supposed to serve as one final hoorah for the characters before the time skip.

[samuraix123]

I never got the impression that Toei was pushing for GT in the final episodes of Z. The party episode just seemed like it was supposed to serve as one final hoorah for the characters before the time skip.

Yeah, idk...I could definitely be wrong. It just felt like they were trying to hurry and end Z to bring in GT to me.

[Matches Malone]

It just felt like they were trying to hurry and end Z to bring in GT to me.

Z was actually going at a very slow pace compared to the manga, it just seems fast because the manga didn't give them much to work with, yet they still found ways to stretch it out.

[90sDBZ]

One thing I've always wondered is why Toei decided to have another time skip for GT, rather than continuing right after Z left off. We literally just had a 10 year time skip, so why age the characters another 5 years on top of that? EoZ is literally the briefest period of the entire franchise, lasting only about 3 episodes in the anime.

[ABED]

I don't give a shit that they gods are "a joke". Gods are dicks. And The Grand Elder isn't a god, he's an old Namekian.

I just like the idea of someone else besides Goku and Vegeta being the heroes and him coming from a small village trying to save them.

To me that says you don't like Uub, you like what he represents. And why do you want someone else to be the hero?

Anyway, there's something to be said for giving a story a conclusion and never revisiting it. That's why my hat is off to Bill Watterson. Hell, he didn't even license his characters.

I can't tell if you're trying to pick a fight with me or not? I tell you I like Uub and explain why other than saying I like the way he looks, you still get that I actually don't like him? Huh? lol

Not a fight but that's not a character. That's an idea, which is fine. Liking an idea is valid but it's just an idea not a character.

[samuraix123]

One thing I've always wondered is why Toei decided to have another time skip for GT, rather than continuing right after Z left off. We literally just had a 10 year time skip, so why age the characters another 5 years on top of that? EoZ is literally the briefest period of the entire franchise, lasting only about 3 episodes in the anime.

Well not only that but I always wondered why they didn't even bother in GT to tell us who the parents was of Goku Jr and Vegeta Jr. Believe it or not, I actually don't hate GT. Haha I just think for every 1 or 2 cool things, there seems to be like 5 bad things haha

[samuraix123]

Here's a question that I should have actually asked in the beginning. Was GT actually being created at the time the EOZ was being wrapped up? I never bothered looking all the dates and stuff for things like that so ''whhhaaat? There's a site too!?"

[WittyUsername]

One thing I've always wondered is why Toei decided to have another time skip for GT, rather than continuing right after Z left off. We literally just had a 10 year time skip, so why age the characters another 5 years on top of that? EoZ is literally the briefest period of the entire franchise, lasting only about 3 episodes in the anime.

Well not only that but I always wondered why they didn't even bother in GT to tell us who the parents was of Goku Jr and Vegeta Jr. Believe it or not, I actually don't hate GT. Haha I just think for every 1 or 2 cool things, there seems to be like 5 bad things haha

Vegeta Jr’s mother was that Bulma looking woman who was talking to Pan.

[Matches Malone]

Was GT actually being created at the time the EOZ was being wrapped up?

Toriyama said that while writing EOZ, he didn't know Toei wanted to continue beyond his story, believing it probably caused them some trouble. The manga's last chapter released on the 23rd of May 1995, while the first episode of GT aired on the 7th of February 1996. GT's story would've been written sometime within those 8 months. Based on interviews, GT's writing was rushed, as they simply didn't have time to refine what they had, or write what they wanted to. If you don't like those first 15 episodes, you're not alone, even the staff didn't like them, but they didn't have time to change them. If you think the Super 17 arc was short, so did the staff, as they had other ideas they were looking at, but couldn't implement them due to episode count limitations.

I believe that had GT been allowed to develop properly, and was given the necessary episode count required for its ideas to be fully realized, we would've gotten a show that lived up to what came before it.

[samuraix123]

Was GT actually being created at the time the EOZ was being wrapped up?

Toriyama said that while writing EOZ, he didn't know Toei wanted to continue beyond his story, believing it probably caused them some trouble. The manga's last chapter released on the 23rd of May 1995, while the first episode of GT aired on the 7th of February 1996. GT's story would've been written sometime within those 8 months. Based on interviews, GT's writing was rushed, as they simply didn't have time to refine what they had, or write what they wanted to. If you don't like those first 15 episodes, you're not alone, even the staff didn't like them, but they didn't have time to change them. If you think the Super 17 arc was short, so did the staff, as they had other ideas they were looking at, but couldn't implement them due to episode count limitations.

I believe that had GT been allowed to develop properly, and was given the necessary episode count required for its ideas to be fully realized, we would've gotten a show that lived up to what came before it.

Those early episodes were rough but I actually really liked that first episode a lot. Seeing Goku and Uub duke it out was really awesome to see how far uub had came since last seeing him. I did like those two Dragons Nova and Ice? Haha

[WittyUsername]

Toei either should’ve taken a hiatus after Z wrapped up, or (though this would’ve been the less desirable option, in my opinion), they should’ve made some additional episodes to pad out Z. In either case, this would’ve given them more time to flesh out their ideas for GT.

[Matches Malone]

Toei either should’ve taken a hiatus after Z wrapped up, or (though this would’ve been the less desirable option, in my opinion), they should’ve made some additional episodes to pad out Z. In either case, this would’ve given them more time to flesh out their ideas for GT.

GT had some talented writers attached. They wanted to develop the characters and world, they wanted there to be permanent consequences, & they didn't want to introduce any new Ssj forms. Ssj4 was introduced at the request of the high ups, and even then they put a lot of effort into making it unique. That's such a far cry from what we're dealing with now in Modern DB.

[Zestanor]

One thing I've always wondered is why Toei decided to have another time skip for GT, rather than continuing right after Z left off. We literally just had a 10 year time skip, so why age the characters another 5 years on top of that? EoZ is literally the briefest period of the entire franchise, lasting only about 3 episodes in the anime.

They wanted Pan to be involved, seems to be the obvious answer. 4 year old Pan would have been too similar to four year old Gohan (or more likely 12 year old Goku).

Here's a question that I should have actually asked in the beginning. Was GT actually being created at the time the EOZ was being wrapped up? I never bothered looking all the dates and stuff for things like that so ''whhhaaat? There's a site too!?"

GT was in the same programming block as Z and started the next week, more or less. The last two episodes of Z, in their next episode previews, have previews of the first episode of GT. (290’s NEP on the Dragon Box has the “full” NEP for 291, instead of the broadcast version which is half for 291 and half for GT). They probably got to work on GT as soon as they heard the manga was over. It helped that everything was basically reared and ready to go for GT: the crew behind Z was a well oiled machine by now. It’s the same animators, voice actors, etc. Except the music guy is new.

[samuraix123]

I know everybody is gonna like what they like, but I really liked the look of Super Saiyan 4 vs all of Super's transformations.

[ABED]

The rushed nature couldn't have helped but making it longer isn't a solution. A big issue is the really crappy fights. They're just boring.

One thing I've always wondered is why Toei decided to have another time skip for GT, rather than continuing right after Z left off. We literally just had a 10 year time skip, so why age the characters another 5 years on top of that? EoZ is literally the briefest period of the entire franchise, lasting only about 3 episodes in the anime.

My guess is to not only age up Pan but to allow Goku to have completed Uub's training.

[Matches Malone]

I really liked the look of Super Saiyan 4 vs all of Super's transformations.

Same here, Ssj4 is by far the best post manga transformation we've gotten.

[Vijay]

Toei either should’ve taken a hiatus after Z wrapped up, or (though this would’ve been the less desirable option, in my opinion), they should’ve made some additional episodes to pad out Z. In either case, this would’ve given them more time to flesh out their ideas for GT.

Umm...Z was already pad-out waay beyond it's limits in Boo Arc, to the point of saturation. Had TOEI padded it out more...Shippuden for ya

[WittyUsername]

Toei either should’ve taken a hiatus after Z wrapped up, or (though this would’ve been the less desirable option, in my opinion), they should’ve made some additional episodes to pad out Z. In either case, this would’ve given them more time to flesh out their ideas for GT.

Umm...Z was already pad-out waay beyond it's limits in Boo Arc, to the point of saturation. Had TOEI padded it out more...Shippuden for ya

That’s why I said it would’ve been the less desirable option, although they wouldn’t necessarily have needed to pad out the stuff involving Boo. They could’ve simply had more episodes that took place between Boo’s defeat and the 10 year time skip.

[ArmenianPepsi]

This may not be 100% on topic, but coming from the perspective of a 1st time viewer. I'm not sure how I feel about the ending of Z.

When I watched Goku fly off for the last time with Uub in episode 291, it was a strange feeling when I realized that it was over. For such a long lasting epic like Dragon Ball to end in such an open-ended, non definitive way is interesting. At first I just felt totally unsatisfied. Like a "Wait what? That's the actual ending? Are you shitting me?". But I thought on it a little more before I made up my mind.

Was this ending intentional? Did Toriyama pull some 3000iq subversion of the status quo to throw everyone for a loop to how it would all end? Instead of just being like "Uhhh well everyone just lives happily ever after. The end.", he wanted it to be open ended so that maybe the fans could take up and make their own stories?

Or am I looking too deep into it?

I'll give DB this, never has the end of any series i've seen before made me ponder it so much.

[Matches Malone]

Did Toriyama pull some 3000iq subversion of the status quo to throw everyone for a loop to how it would all end? Instead of just being like "Uhhh well everyone just lives happily ever after. The end.", he wanted it to be open ended so that maybe the fans could take up and make their own stories?

“I am only able to show you the story of Son Goku, his many friends, and the Dragon Balls, up to this point, the end. Even after this, we can probably expect that there will still be various troubles, no different than before. But somehow, they’re definitely going to overcome them… It will be all right, because on Earth, there are some incredible guys…!!”

Based on this comment, it seems that way. He couldn't tell the entire story because to him, Goku and his friends will always have new adventures, so it's now up to the countless fans around the world to determine how those adventures continued. I go back and forth on how I feel about the ending. On one hand, I like the idea that my heroes will always have new adventures, but on the other, I'm not really a fan of things being left open, as I like stories to have definitive endings. I have to wonder if GT's writers also feel the same way, as its ending is as closed and definitive as it can get.