Dragon Ball Z Level Sets or Dragon Boxes?

[TonyDragonBallFan]

Obviously the Dragon Boxes are the superior release because of what they offer for a hardcore fan, but those level sets that unfortunately got canceled back in 2012, had BEAUTIFUL quality with the original aspect ratio of 4:3. Matter of fact, the level sets showed a little bit more image than the Dragon Boxes did. But overall, what do you like better? 1080p HD quality of the level sets, or the ultimate Dragon Boxes?

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

Generally speaking, the Dragon Boxes are my personal favorite and preferred "archival" format for watching the series in Japanese plus with having the complete package (proper OP/ED, credits, NEP's.etc) more or less mirrors how the series was originally broadcast that most of FUNi's other DBZ releases. Considering the awesome stealer eBay deals i managed to get them for, they have definitely been worth the time i have invested in gradually tracking them down.

[TheBlackPaladin]

On a purely visual/audio level, I prefer the Level Sets myself. I would argue that their colors seem both more natural and more akin to the colors of the original broadcast than the Dragon Boxes do. The Dragon Boxes--especially the older episodes--have a bit of a red tint to them as a result of the aged film. It's not nearly as egregious as, say, the green tint that plagued Kai: The Final Chapters, but I still can't help but notice the difference.

[Soppa Saia People]

i have a lot of nostalgia for the dragon boxes strangely, their one of those things that i built up so heavily in my mind as a kid that they kinda reached like, almost myth status to me ? it's weird, and to be honest i do really love how they look even if it's not accurate and more so a result of color degeneration and all that, it's not how i wanna see the show, but it is a look i like i guess. i feel kinda the same way about the dragon boxes shitty audio, it's a nostalgic thing and if i had a choice i wouldn't use it, but i do like, kinda like it.

but i mean footage wise and quality wise, the level sets just completely obliterates it, it's not even like a competition. but also like, yeah the level sets were never finished....so, yeah i kinda obviously think the dragon box release is better cause it actually has the whole show ? weird question. also having japanese credits during the OPs and EDs is a big deal to me, same with NEPs, so the ideal release would be level set quality footage with dbox OPs, EDs, and NEPs. and also original broadcast audio but that won't happen so.

[VDenter]

Seems like Level Sets win in terms of image quality and color accuracy.

However i can't stand the lack of Japaneses title cards and Next Episode previews.

So i think i would still prefer The Dragon Boxes even if the Levels weren't cancelled.

What needs to happen is for Toie to remaster this series properly but i doubt they will.

[coola]

Problem is, at the end of the day, Level Sets stil used 3rd rate master, i would love to see how it would look if original masters were used, sadly, knowing Toei, while not as bad as Funimation, they would just remaster it automatically and upscale it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jWfw-rrZrE

[TheBlackPaladin]

Problem is, at the end of the day, Level Sets stil used 3rd rate master, i would love to see how it would look if original masters were used, sadly, knowing Toei, while not as bad as Funimation, they would just remaster it automatically and upscale it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jWfw-rrZrE

That, for me, was one of the most impressive things about the Level Sets--that FUNimation made, from multi-generation masters, a better-looking product (in my opinion, anyway) than the 1st-generation masters Toei took out of cold storage.

[ArmenianPepsi]

Well I'd have to go with the DBoxes because it actually covers all 291 episodes.

However, smart-alek responses aside, purely on the visual end the Level Sets will probably be the best DBZ will ever look.

The only way we'll get anything like it again is if Funi ever gets their head out of the sand and properly remasters the series again, which will likely never happen as evidenced by the 30th Anniversary Set. They made it loud and clear that they have a distinct vision on what they want the show to look like, and are either supremely ignorant to what hardcore fans really want, or purposely ignore them despite how loud their cries are. The only thing that 30th Set has over the 2013 blu rays is that it's in the proper 4:3. Everything else about the presentation is just about the same.

A Toei homemade remaster is another path, but that is equally likely as Funi actually giving people a good release of DBZ again. Either way you look, unless there is a miracle or two, we're kind of S.O.L.

Just look at the remasters of the DBZ specials Toei did from a couple of years ago, that is what the rest of the series could look like if given the proper care it deserves. It's like a cruel tease of what could be.

[TheBlackPaladin]

The only way we'll get anything like it again is if Funi ever gets their head out of the sand and properly remasters the series again, which will likely never happen as evidenced by the 30th Anniversary Set. They made it loud and clear that they have a distinct vision on what they want the show to look like, and are either supremely ignorant to what hardcore fans really want, or purposely ignore them despite how loud their cries are.

Or the fans aren't buying the proper remasters.

FUNimation had every intention of completing the Level Sets, but they said that they didn't sell well enough to justify the cost of the remastering process. It's also worth noting that, before they proceeded with the 30th Anniversary Set, the trailer said that they would only make it if they received enough pre-orders for it. They did receive the prerequisite number of pre-orders, of course, but I bring that up because the fact that they even had to put that qualification out there shows that DBZ has reached the point where it's no longer something that will automatically sell like hotcakes like it used to.

My guess is that if they had started off with the Level Sets much earlier on, we'd probably have a complete release in that format. DBZ is an old show now, though--even in the English-speaking world. Even Anime News Network's review of one of the Dragon Boxes said they were nothing special enough to warrant buying if fans already had the Orange Bricks. So just releasing DBZ on home video is not in and of itself a big deal anymore, especially when most casual fans who wanted a complete release of the show, however poor the remastering process might have been, now have one.

[ArmenianPepsi]

The only way we'll get anything like it again is if Funi ever gets their head out of the sand and properly remasters the series again, which will likely never happen as evidenced by the 30th Anniversary Set. They made it loud and clear that they have a distinct vision on what they want the show to look like, and are either supremely ignorant to what hardcore fans really want, or purposely ignore them despite how loud their cries are.

Or the fans aren't buying the proper remasters.

FUNimation had every intention of completing the Level Sets, but they said that they didn't sell well enough to justify the cost of the remastering process. It's also worth noting that, before they proceeded with the 30th Anniversary Set, the trailer said that they would only make it if they received enough pre-orders for it. They did receive the prerequisite number of pre-orders, of course, but I bring that up because the fact that they even had to put that qualification out there shows that DBZ has reached the point where it's no longer something that will automatically sell like hotcakes like it used to.

My guess is that if they had started off with the Level Sets much earlier on, we'd probably have a complete release in that format. DBZ is an old show now, though--even in the English-speaking world. Even Anime News Network's review of one of the Dragon Boxes said they were nothing special enough to warrant buying if fans already had the Orange Bricks. So just releasing DBZ on home video is not in and of itself a big deal anymore, especially when most casual fans who wanted a complete release of the show, however poor the remastering process might have been, now have one.

Poor timing was probably another culprit for the Level Set's demise.

By late 2011...
- Orange Bricks were completed and still selling well
- Kai was still rolling out on Blu Ray and DVD, and Kai was sort of the new rage at the time
- Funi finished bringing over the DBox to NA for their release

The third point is probably the hardest hitting. Hardcore fans were the demographic that the Levels Sets would appeal to most. But by the time the Level Sets came, those same people were finished dropping a few hundred dollars to complete their DBox set, just to hear of yet another release that they would have to choose weather or not to commit the money it would cost to buy in.

I wouldn't be shocked if a lot of fans were thinking at the time "I'm not committing again to another release of the show, I already have what I wanted, I wont spend anymore"

One last thing was that the dollar/episode value was terrible. Spending 35 bucks for only 17 episodes. Do the math.

291 / 17 = About 17, so 17 individual releases to complete the series. 17 x 35 = 595. It would cost you almost 600 dollars to own a complete set if Funi finished the Level Sets and went by the same release scheme for every installment

In NA, the DBox volumes sold for about 60 bucks, and there were 7 volumes. That would only cost you 420 bucks to have a complete set back when they were in print.

[VanceRefrigeration]

Or the fans aren't buying the proper remasters.

FUNimation had every intention of completing the Level Sets, but they said that they didn't sell well enough to justify the cost of the remastering process.

I think we need to ask ourselves, what is it about the Levels that was a "proper" remaster, and what is it about the 30th that was not a "proper" remaster?

Both were based on full-frame HD scans of their 16mm film
Both had their tape marks removed ("which is the most time consuming of all the processes")
Both had cleaning of dirt/scratches......but people have noticed a few more of these left in on the 30th starting around the Cell arc
Both had a 4:3 framing, though the 30th was a little more zoomed in (but not always)

Of these, the 30th only falls short slightly on the meticulous dirt/scratch clean-up and with maximizing the frame area. But that doesn't mean that it's not a proper remaster....it's just sliiiightly worse than the Levels, from a pure remastering perspective. What really kills the 30th is the DNR, the sharpening, and the color tampering. But these are not done to cut costs. If anything, the time it takes to implement them would probably cost more than if they just left the film alone. If they turned these filters off, we would have something that very closely resembles the Levels. The reason for them is probably because Funimation thinks they are necessary for the product to sell.

[Robo4900]

Or the fans aren't buying the proper remasters.

"Proper remasters" simply haven't been available. They put out the Dragon Boxes in limited numbers, briefly, at the highest prices Dragon Ball DVDs have ever been made available at in the west, a year after the Orange Bricks had just got done, at the exact same time as Kai was happening... It was very clearly targeted at a small audience.

As for the Levels, well...

FUNimation had every intention of completing the Level Sets, but they said that they didn't sell well enough to justify the cost of the remastering process.

They never said this. They said they were rethinking their strategy, but the "levels were too expensive" thing was something the fans assumed after hearing about the Level cancellation, and particularly after seeing how shit the Season BDs looked, the assumption being that the Season BDs were a far cheaper remaster.

And were the Season BDs cheaper to remaster? well...

My guess is that if they had started off with the Level Sets much earlier on, we'd probably have a complete release in that format.

I think it's the opposite. Funi put the same amount of money and time into the Season BDs as they would have had to for the Levels (Matt O'Hara's interview on the Season BDs goes into this, talking about teams of five engineers working on each episode individually for a week at a time to make sure they're properly cleaned). There's no way that would be notably cheaper than the Levels, and there's also significant evidence to back up their claims, which point to a proper remastering process being carried out. Sadly, this proper remaster has never been properly released; when debuted, they ruined the image by throwing DNR, sharpening, and cropping on top at the last stage, to make the Season BDs. The 30th sets could have been basically a better version of what the Levels were, because they went back to their cleaned-up masters, but they put the same shitty DNR+sharpening on top, and fucked up the colours, as usual.

My theory for some time now has been that Funi assumed no one would buy Dragon Ball in HD, just as no one had shown any interest in the Dragon Box DVDs in 2009, so they would put out the Levels for the hardcore fans, price it really high so they could afford to make the sets, and put them out there... Then they sold well enough that Funi decided to rethink it and target it more at a mass audience. And at that point, the high-ups were like "well if we're targeting a mass audience, we have to DNR+sharpen+crop it, otherwise the mass audience will hate it!!"
Given that Funi reps said in the lead-up to the 30th sets release that the Funi guys legitimately think the DNR+sharpening makes the picture better, and given that we've put up with this shit for both "Season" releases, and the 30th sets, this seems to me the most likely explanation.

... Sadly, I think you're right, in a way; you note that new DBZ releases probably aren't selling like hotcakes anymore. Nowadays, with streaming, I don't think anyone's buying physical media of old shows in general. When Funi made the decision to kill the Levels in 2011, and then to put out the new sets cropped, DNR'd, and shittily sharpened, that was the death of any chance of us getting a proper home release. You could argue we proved with the 30th sets' barely-crossing-the-production-minimum sales that we don't want any more shitty releases, but probably anyone at Funi looking to do another release of any kind in future will look at the numbers and decide that what the fans actually proved there is they aren't interested in any more Dragon Ball home media... Damned if we do, damned if we don't, I guess.
Ugh. This situation is so shitty. :L

[TheBlueKnight_3]

If I had a choice between the Dragon boxes and the level sets I would pick the level sets. So let's examine these two home releases.
Dragon box
As far as the audios are concerned there are only 2 audios unfortunately. There is funimation English dub with the kikuchi score (the version I prefer) and there is the bad optical audio for the Japanese score with subtitles. Unfortunately there's no faulconer score which is a very big part of the history of Dragon Ball Z in North America.
The picture quality is pretty good for a DVD release. I have to say the image quality looks nice and clean for a DVD transfer that was done in 2003 (you know that the image quality is good when you can see the grain in a DVD release).
The colors are not accurate, unfortunately there was no color correction that was applied in 2003 when the remastering process was done, so you are left with pinkish skin and green tinted sky.
They also have Japanese texts in the intro, Japanese title cards and next episode previews.
The level sets
As far as the audios are concerned they are all 3 audios in this release so all types of fans are satisfied.
Despite this release having 3rd generation film prince the quality is absolutely amazing.
The film transfer and the colour correction was done by a professional called Steve Franko. In terms of picture quality in my opinion it pulls every single detail out of that 16mm film print and to quote Steve Franko "Now the prints at that time you had a lot of grain, but in standard depth the grain was kinder mushed over, because you didn't really see the grain and now we're taking to HD it's looking further into the film we're seeing more resolution and of course one of the byproducts of resolution for any film it's grain, is what gives us the resolution"
The colours are done exceptionally well and they look absolutely fantastic the way Dragon Ball Z should look like. The only bad regarding the colours is some small crushing a blacks, which means you have loss of detail in black areas but that isn't a big deal (because if you haven't read about it or seen a comparison you would never know that is there).
You can also see more picture on the top and bottom on this release.
Unfortunately they don't have Japanese texts in the intro, Japanese title cards and next episode previews.
Just to add some comparisons between both releases. The first comparison is about the crushed blacks in the level sets ( keep in mind this is an extreme example) https://imgsli.com/MjA0NDU the second comparison is in general picture quality https://imgsli.com/MjA0MTM third comparison is the compare the Dragon boxes which have pinkish skin and green tinted sky vs the level set https://imgsli.com/MjAzMTg fourth comparison is in general colours between both releases https://imgsli.com/MjAzMjE
In conclusion this is the reason that I would prefer this release over the Dragon boxes.
It's very sad that this release got cancelled and only 39 episodes exist but we do know that the entire series is remastered in this quality we just have to show our interest to funimation. The best way we can show funimation that we want the level sets to be continued is to tweet at them something like this."@FUNimation We want continuation of the level set Blu-rays for DBZ. This is what the fans really want, a true remaster. https://youtube.com/watch?v=moAy02J2fd8&t with no digital noise reduction DNR and no sharpening filters keep the grain and don't change the colours." And let's hope that if enough people tweet about this they just might listen to us.