Kakkarott and Kal-El

SaiyaMel · Post by **SaiyaMel** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 4:55 am

At the start of the Saiyan arc when Goku's origins are revealed..his story becomes quite similar to that of Superman... obviously Mr Toriyama got the idea from that. but another similarity - the names "Kakkarott" and "Kal-El" both start with "Ka".

Coincidence?

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 5:11 am

SaiyaMel wrote:At the start of the Saiyan arc when Goku's origins are revealed..his story becomes quite similar to that of Superman... obviously Mr Toriyama got the idea from that. but another similarity - the names "Kakkarott" and "Kal-El" both start with "Ka".

Coincidence?

I guess you could say that. Difference though was with Kal-El, he was shot to Earth to save his life purposely. Guys who shot Goku off were just doing their job and had no idea Frieza was about to blow them up.

testing223 · Post by **testing223** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:25 am

I think it's pretty obvious that the superpowered-alien-sent to Earth is a homage/ripoff of Superman.

COCONUT MILK · Post by **COCONUT MILK** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:10 pm

I remember an arnold android in that big tower.

Sun_Wukong · Post by **Sun_Wukong** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:37 pm

Wow this similarity has really been done to death, but I'm going to add to it anyway.

-both fathers try to warn planet of impending doom
-both were adopted by kind older people
-Krypton and Planet Vegeta had more advanced technology than Earth
-both wear red and blue
-both are supposed to be last survivors of race

Post by **Herms** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 3:45 pm

'Kakarot' comes from 'carrot'. That's where Toriyama said it came from, and there's really no reason to think any different. 'Kar-El' isn't really all that similiar anyway.

To my knowledge, Toriyama has never said that he was influenced by Superman, and since he's admitted being influenced by Journey to the West, Jackie Chan, Bruce Lee, and even Mighty Mouse, there's no reason to think he'd want to hide that fact. In his interview from Daizenshuu 1, he says he dislikes when people go to other manga for ideas, and also that movies aren't useful references for making a manga's story.
However, he does say that the old movies he's seen tend to stick around in his head, and admits that they might unconciously influence him. I think any similiarites between Goku and Superman's backstory are therefore probably unintentional.

Kirbopher · Post by **Kirbopher** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 5:03 pm

I remember a thousand years ago when Mike and Meri were discussing what all of the Saiyan character names mean, and when deciphering "Kakarotto" they got to the end and were like "so what's the extra 'ka' for?" "JULIAN WOULD KNOW IF HE WERE HERE" but the Kal-El theory makes a lotta sense, actually.

Post by **Herms** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 5:50 pm

Kirbopher wrote:I remember a thousand years ago when Mike and Meri were discussing what all of the Saiyan character names mean, and when deciphering "Kakarotto" they got to the end and were like "so what's the extra 'ka' for?" "JULIAN WOULD KNOW IF HE WERE HERE" but the Kal-El theory makes a lotta sense, actually.

The extra 'ka' is there for the same reason that there's an extra 'do' in Dodoria's name (he's named after the durian fruit) and the 'ble' is left out of Vegeta's name: to distinguish the character's name from the thing it's a pun on. Really, I don't think there's any mystery.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:12 pm

Herms wrote:
Kirbopher wrote:I remember a thousand years ago when Mike and Meri were discussing what all of the Saiyan character names mean, and when deciphering "Kakarotto" they got to the end and were like "so what's the extra 'ka' for?" "JULIAN WOULD KNOW IF HE WERE HERE" but the Kal-El theory makes a lotta sense, actually.
The extra 'ka' is there for the same reason that there's an extra 'do' in Dodoria's name (he's named after the durian fruit) and the 'ble' is left out of Vegeta's name: to distinguish the character's name from the thing it's a pun on. Really, I don't think there's any mystery.

What's always intrigued me about Toriyama, though, is that it's not a rule with him. For every karotto(sp?) --> kakarotto, we have TRUNKS. For every radisshu --> radittsu, we have PICCOLO. Know what I mean?

He doesn't always go out of his way to play with the words to make them more "punny", and I'd go out and say that he gets more lazy with it as time goes on.

Post by **Herms** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:42 pm

VegettoEX wrote: What's always intrigued me about Toriyama, though, is that it's not a rule with him. For every karotto(sp?) --> kakarotto, we have TRUNKS. For every radisshu --> radittsu, we have PICCOLO. Know what I mean?

He doesn't always go out of his way to play with the words to make them more "punny", and I'd go out and say that he gets more lazy with it as time goes on.

Yeah, he does seem to go back and forth. There's that thing from Daizenshuu 6 that you have up on the site where he had them change Tapion's original name to make it less like tapioca, which is weird because he never had any qualm with using the actual word himself. Maybe it just has to do with whatever sounded best to him? I don't really agree that he gets more lazy as the series progressed, although the android arc was sort of a low point for puns, with 'Trunks', 'Cell', and the androids themselves, who weren't even really puns on anything.

karotto(sp?)

kyarotto. Of course, the Japanese word itself is ninjin, put they use the English word for things like the Carrot Tower in Tokyo.

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:00 pm

Toriyama's already been inspired by Kal-El:

Sort of.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:26 pm

Super Sonic wrote:Toriyama's already been inspired by Kal-El:

Sort of.

I wonder if the "real" Superman can eat sour candy as well as Suppaman.

The Time Traveller · Post by **The Time Traveller** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:40 pm

Damnit, this is an age old conflict with no ending.

Except for this one....

But, c'mon, if Superman grabbed Goku by the collar and shot off into space he'd just tear off all of Goku's clothes, but he likes being nude, so it's win-win.

Magica · Post by **Magica** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:40 pm

I discussed something like this a while back on mIRC the comparisons between Superman and Goku. Some of these are with Superman and some compared with Smallville.

- Goku was an infant when he was released (I can't think of the right word) from Planet Vegeta, before it was destroyed.
- Bardock knew that the Planet was going to be destroyed, but nobody believed him.
- Goku at the time was known to be the only survivor.
- When Goku was an adult Radditz, then Vegeta and Nappa show up. (I think there were some evil Kryptonians that came to Smallville. Conan needs to correct me on this one).
- Goku has his own league of "Superfriends": Yamcha, Krillin, Tien, etc.
- Gohan. "The Son becomes the Father and the Father the Son"
- Superman. Super Saiyajin.
- Buff main characters wee!

EDIT: I'm still new to Superman/Smallville, so there's probably some errors.

Post by **Kaboom** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:49 pm

::facepalm.jpg::

In advance, can we please not let this turn this into a Goku vs Superman thread? We've had enough nasty "debates" on this forum lately as it is.

The Time Traveller · Post by **The Time Traveller** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 9:08 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote:::facepalm.jpg::

In advance, can we please not let this turn this into a Goku vs Superman thread? We've had enough nasty "debates" on this forum lately as it is.

We'll see how well you debate without hands!

But seriously, no one cares about who'd win in a fight between Goku and Superman, infact, if you're still coming up with a list then you just don't belong.

I remember one time on some forum where girls were saying Inuyasha could kill Vegeta with his sword, despite the fact that Vegeta could crush that puney bitch with-

Ok, there are Parallels between Superman and Goku, except the Superhero thing, Goku doesn't have an alter ego, and the only way green rocks could hurt Goku is if he had to think of a way to eat with them as spoons. But he does work with a green alien and a rich guy with a bad attitude (He married into it though, plus His Parents are Deeeeeeeeeead).

And if you remember Mallrats, Superman can't have a baby, blows his load like a shotgun through her back, krytonite condom, blah blah.

FindKenshi · Post by **FindKenshi** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:43 am

Aw man, that picture is AWESOME, but what font was used? I want to correct that image, because Superman can not "breath" in space, nor can anyone else. It would be so much better if it instead said "survive".

edit: oops, crud. I forgot I had an actual reason for posting here, before I saw that picture!

SaiyaMel wrote:obviously Mr Toriyama got the idea from that.

It's not so obvious to me, and quite honestly, I don't think he stole the idea from Superman. There are big differences between Superman's and Goku's mythos.

Bardock was a mass murderer, and Jor El was seen as a savior.

Goku was not sent to Earth by his father, and he was sent there to destroy it. Superman was sent to Earth by his father, for the intention of saving him.

Superman was originally supposed to be the last of his kind. When we first even LEARN that Goku is an alien, we already know of Raditz, and quite soon thereafter, learn that there are two others.

Superman has powers BECAUSE he was sent to Earth (yellow sun), Goku has powers for other reaons

TheGreatness25 · Post by **TheGreatness25** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:14 am

Well if you think about it, every epic story is just a copy of a previous one, with new characters and a different setting.

Now you'll never catch me saying that I'm religious at all. But, having taken Literature class, I kind of see that...every story basically comes from the bible and the old testament. That book had villains, struggle, plague, conflict, murder, and of course, a hero. Think about it.

Every ancient writing had basically the same stories with different characters and setting. I should know, because I had to read all of them. Think about it.

Compare Jesus and Hercules. Both sons of Gods, but born to humans. Both saviors in their own way. Hercules was a savior with his strength and physically helping people, and Jesus was a savior spiritually, and helped people find their own way. Now, take Superman.

Superman is the last of a race, who are superior to regular humans. Sent down from a far away place. But he has no selfishness and no selflessness. All he lives for, all he breathes for is to help those who cannot help themselves. He is the savior. Superman is the comic book modern day version of Jesus, wrapped up in a nice red and blue package. Jesus had his conflict with Satan, Superman has his conflicts from time to time with his internal devil, which tells him to become selfish and take what he wants. But of course, just like Jesus walked away from Satan, Superman never strays down the path of selfishness, he never gives in to his internal demons.

Now, Goku is basically the same deal. How many stories are JUST like that? Where there is someone unique, sent from somewhere else to help those who can't help themselves. It's everywhere. Every epic story seems to be like that. So it's not the first time, it's not the last time, and it's very, VERY common.

There is just something that attracts people to the idea of a single person sent from somewhere else, put here with no ego, with no selfishness, to protect those who cannot protect themselves.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:05 am

The Time Traveller wrote:Damnit, this is an age old conflict with no ending.

Except for this one....

But, c'mon, if Superman grabbed Goku by the collar and shot off into space he'd just tear off all of Goku's clothes, but he likes being nude, so it's win-win.

That's not the end. Here's the next part:

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:15 am

Those are interesting pics. And Superman can't breathe in space.

Kanzenshuu

Kakkarott and Kal-El

Kakkarott and Kal-El

Re: Kakkarott and Kal-El

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