"Relaxed" SSJ state

Izlude · Post by **Izlude** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 9:08 pm

I noticed this wasnt mention in the transformation guide, or so I dont think it was, but what about Goku and Gohan's ability to remain in the SSJ form in a relaxed state, like it was natural for them? I dont see much info regarding this form, even though it is just regular SSJ, but it doesnt require the mass amounts of energy spent on transforming and all.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 9:15 pm

It's referred to as "Full Power(ed) Super Saiyajin" in the daizenshuu, and I do plan on adding it soon

. While it's not a new "transformation" exactly, it's in the same vein, anyway. Almost like a more successful "USSJ" transformation.

EDIT: In fact, here's the image/entry in question. There's a section in one of the daizenshuu called "CHARACTER HISTORY" that goes through and shows (and describes) each of the forms a good portion of the characters go through / reach. Just waiting on Julian to skim/translate them all to see if there's anything else of interest (or that we've missed, even). ^^;;

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 9:54 pm

VegettoEX wrote:It's referred to as "Full Power(ed) Super Saiyajin" in the daizenshuu

Suupaa Saiya-jin Furu Pawaa=Super Saiya-jin Full Power, right? Unless "pawaa" can be used for powered as well, I'd stick with Full Power Super Saiya-jin. Full Powered doesn't sound as..cool.

Izlude · Post by **Izlude** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 9:55 pm

Ah I see, interesting. I'd go out and buy the Daizenshuu myself, but then again, I got all of the Daizenshuu I'll ever need right here

Post by **VegettoEX** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 10:03 pm

Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:Suupaa Saiya-jin Furu Pawaa=Super Saiya-jin Full Power, right? Unless "pawaa" can be used for powered as well, I'd stick with Full Power Super Saiya-jin. Full Powered doesn't sound as..cool.

I typed it from memory before I loaded the image up

. I would say the stage is called "Full Power" but they are "Full Powered". So nyah!

*scans more random shit for Julian to translate*

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 10:11 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:Suupaa Saiya-jin Furu Pawaa=Super Saiya-jin Full Power, right? Unless "pawaa" can be used for powered as well, I'd stick with Full Power Super Saiya-jin. Full Powered doesn't sound as..cool.
I typed it from memory before I loaded the image up . I would say the stage is called "Full Power" but they are "Full Powered". So nyah!

*scans more random shit for Julian to translate*

Heh heh, I guess they are "full powered"

I wonder what would happen in people started refering to it as "Super Saiya-Jin Full Power", though, as that's technically it's name.
Hmmm, SSj-Fp instead of Fp-SSj...

IncredibleGuy · Post by **IncredibleGuy** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 11:36 pm

Is it ever stated that they were fully powered Super Saiyans, or is it only the Daizenshuu that states that?

*PINHEAD* · Post by ***PINHEAD*** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:47 am

I think the Super Saiyan state is generally angry and restless, but when a Saiyan learns to simultaneously tap into the SSJ power and remain calm and supress the power to reserve it, you get the relaxed state. Now, I'm confused...didn't Izlude ask about Son Goku and Gohan's ability to stay relaxed, not about the "Full Power(ed)" state?

Post by **SaiyaJedi** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:51 am

VegettoEX wrote:It's referred to as "Full Power(ed) Super Saiyajin" in the daizenshuu, and I do plan on adding it soon . While it's not a new "transformation" exactly, it's in the same vein, anyway. Almost like a more successful "USSJ" transformation.

That really only seems to talk about how that's what he achieved in the RoSaT... not specifically referring to what they were doing after they got out...

Post by **VegettoEX** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:42 pm

*PINHEAD* wrote:I think the Super Saiyan state is generally angry and restless, but when a Saiyan learns to simultaneously tap into the SSJ power and remain calm and supress the power to reserve it, you get the relaxed state. Now, I'm confused...didn't Izlude ask about Son Goku and Gohan's ability to stay relaxed, not about the "Full Power(ed)" state?

Their ability to stay "relaxed" is the "transformation" in question. Their "full power" status refers to the fact that they've become so comfortable in the position, that simply being in SSJ doesn't take such a toll on their power. They're able to walk, talk, sleep, and eat SSJ because of it

.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:45 pm

Yes, I think Goku said "They could stay in the SSJ state like their base forms, without wasting energy". I would assume them not losing energy would let them max out their SSJ form, as the energy drain wouldn't all your SSJ to reach it's max.

IncredibleGuy · Post by **IncredibleGuy** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:05 am

Erm... Ya' know, I've been keeping fairly close attention to the recently released VIZ version of DBZ, and I don't believe they ever specify it's "energy" their losing. Goku merely states that staying in the SS state takes a toll on the user's body, which in mind registers quicker stamina loss. By making Super Saiyan they're relaxed state what they're basically doing, in my opinion, is giving themselves the ability to use that added stamina towards other things - recovering, healing wounds, etc.

Metrite · Post by **Metrite** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:42 am

So the daizenshuu says it's called full power ssj because, due to them making it feel natural, they don't lose any power at all from just being in the form(like they're fighting with power they'd normally be using to maintain the form, technically making them more powerful)?
And since it's natural feeling, does that mean no anger needed? I remember in movie 7 it was said the Genki Dama dissipated because he couldn't do it in ssj because of how rage is used for the transformation to work(that seems to be the reason why Goku always had that "mean" look on his eyes when in ssj. He didn't during the days before the Cell games though). He looked and acted normal, so could it have been possible he could do it as a fpssj?
If ssj1 can be mastered like that so it's natural feeling, could that be possible with ssj2 and 3?
Do the daizenshuus explain everything about how the ssj forms work? There are several things about them I've wondered. Like, is the power they have in ssj power they have but can't access in their normal state?

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:30 am

I'll need Julian to translate a bit more of the surrounding text to find out the answers to some of those questions, if they're actually in there

.

I don't own the seventh daizenshuu (the "encyclopedia"), so if it goes any more in-depth on the stages, I have no idea. I think I've given Julian as much text as I can from what I do own, so if we know it, we generally place it on the respective "Transformations" page... plus we've got a great bunch of fanboys/gals here that help us out with adding information we may have missed ^_~

Metrite · Post by **Metrite** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:10 pm

I don't own the seventh daizenshuu (the "encyclopedia")

I do. If you want, I could scan the whole book and send it to you(I'd probably have to do it part by part like ten pgs a day, scanning 314 pds in one day would be too much

). Maybe you could use it to make an encyclopedia section that shows a pic of each pg and under it a full translation of everything it says(do it one pg a day and it'd only a take a year lol). Here's some scans from the attack section that where ssj is listed:
The pg that talks about ssj.
Here's the next pg that brings up the other forms.
Just copy them and zoom in and I think it'll be clear enough. Hope they have useful info.
And this is the pg that talks about Gogeta and Gotenks.
And this is the next pg thayt talks more about Gotenks.
I've been wondering if they explain anything about the ssj mysteries with them like one's direct ssj appearance, or Gotenks being able to go ssj3(I heard the daiz say somewhere that skipping ssj2 resulted in ssj3 Gotenks not being as strong as he could've been had he learned to reach ssj2 first).

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:19 pm

Oh, neat stuff

. I'd never ask anyone to scan an entire book for me; besides it being too much work, I'd feel awful about "bootlegging" it ^^;;.

As for specific pages, it would be a great help! While I can't exactly read Japanese like Julian can, the first two pages you've linked there seem to reiterate what's in the second daizenshuu's "CHARACTER HISTORY" section (at least from looking at the images; most are the same). I've sent those scans to Julian, already, so it'll be interesting to see if the two books say the same thing, or add upon each other.

If you happen to see anything you think is of relevance, feel free to scan and pass it along, though! Muchly appreciated.

And this is why Daizenshuu EX is not only the best site, but has the best fans.

Metrite · Post by **Metrite** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 4:30 am

Any translation of what they say yet? I've been wanting to find someone that could translate them in hopes that they could answer more "DB mysteries." lol
Here's one I forgot: Giji ssj(the pic example on that pg is on the lower right).
And on this same pg, it talks anout the kikoho, shin kikoho, ki no tsurugi, and the ki no jyouto(the move from movie 8 everyone used to power up Goku). I've wondered if the attack section discribes the moves and the facts about then and how they work? If so, it could answer many questions.
Like here it lists the shunkan idou, but it lists the one from movie 9 as a seperate version of the technique(maybe it explains how it was able to return him to the living world briefly wile dead?).
And many ppl wonder how Goku's famous ryuken from movie 13 works, maybe this explains it?

*PINHEAD* · Post by ***PINHEAD*** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:55 pm

As a Super Saiyan, the character is using up a lot more power than usual, putting stress on his body. The stress on the body would cause stamina/energy to be drained fairly quickly. When their bodies adjusted to the Super Saiyan form, Son Goku and Gohan were able to apply the conserved energy to boost their power--thus, the "Full Power Super Saiyan" state. However, I don't see this is as a new transformation. Rather, I see this state simply as the Saiyan drawing out all his power to go all out. In this case, Goku had a lot of energy in reserve, so his "Full Power" state was big enough to seem like an all new transformation.
The whole draining of the Genki-Dama by the SSJ state is a contradiction; supposedly having a heart full of rage makes you lose your pure heart, yet after Kuririn's first death, Goku was able to ride on Kinto-un despite his enraged heart.
Feel free to correct me as I'm pretty much dumb.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 4:16 pm

*PINHEAD* wrote:The whole draining of the Genki-Dama by the SSJ state is a contradiction; supposedly having a heart full of rage makes you lose your pure heart, yet after Kuririn's first death, Goku was able to ride on Kinto-un despite his enraged heart.
Feel free to correct me as I'm pretty much dumb.

Maybe because it was pure rage? Actually, I guess 'righteous rage' is a better term.

The Super Saiyan transformation is something else, seeing as it taps into Goku's Saiyan subconscious. A Super Saiyan rage isn't righteous, since SSj Goku was clearly wanting Frieza to suffer before dying, and SSj2 Gohan wanted to hurt Cell as much as possible before killing him.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 1:01 am

I don't consider it a transformation but a Method by which to have extremely effective training. The Super Saiyan forms don't grow much in power by training at base since its not a multiplier (in my opinion) so one would have to train at Super Saiyan to increase power in it, but since its so hard to train in it without tiring out, achieving it permanatly or making it natural obviously allows a huge strength increase far more effective then even transforming most of the time, not to mention it heavily aided going beyond it, since it was like a base form for Gohan.

Kanzenshuu

"Relaxed" SSJ state

"Relaxed" SSJ state

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