The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[ZombieVito]

Re read the manga, there are a bunch of instances when a fighter powers up without one. Besides a BP increase can't be stated. They can't sense his ki.

And of course he would say Vegeta is a disappointment, Birusu is just that much stronger. By my numbers hes almost 19 times Enraged SSJ2 Vegeta at FP.

[dbzfan7]

Re read the manga, there are a bunch of instances when a fighter powers up without one. Besides a BP increase can't be stated. They can't sense his ki.

And of course he would say Vegeta is a disappointment, Birusu is just that much stronger. By my numbers hes almost 19 times Enraged SSJ2 Vegeta at FP.

Nothing shows or suggests a power up. Ergo it's unlikely there was one. Vegeta trades a few blows with Birus at one point before getting swatted at one point. And that also means nothing. He doesn't even knock out Vegeta right away before the rage moment.

[ZombieVito]

So a suppressed Birusu, to the point of not killing Bulma can fight evenly with an Enraged SSJ2 Vegeta? Sorry but I have to call bull on that one. A power up had to happen.

[dbzfan7]

So a suppressed Birusu, to the point of not killing Bulma can fight evenly with an Enraged SSJ2 Vegeta? Sorry but I have to call bull on that one. A power up had to happen.

There's a thing called holding back effort. I can't power up, but I can control how hard a smack will be. Same with Birus. I call bullshit on the entire enraged thing period. Could Birus have powered up, Maybe. Any factual proof, no. I don't buy any power up at any point. Birus doesn't mention having any problems with Vegeta or even him being caught of guard. He just says your not SSJG how disappointing.

[RandomGuy96]

There is, again, no basis for Vegeta being that strong. You have to assume that Beers for no reason suppressed himself to the exact same level he fought Gohan at (no evidence, especially since we just saw him suppressed to a lesser level not five seconds earlier), that he actually cared about Vegeta attacking him (no evidence), that Beers powered up to tank the Galick Gun (no evidence), or that Vegeta was anywhere close to begin with (no evidence). He tried to attack Beers, and Beers tanked every hit, including his biggest strongest attack. Enraged SS2 Vegeta has NO FEATS. None at all. So yeah, it requires a lot of baseless assumptions and violations of internal logic. On top of that, Vegeta is only said to surpass Goku. Not Gohan or Gotenks.

Enraged SS2 Vegeta isn't scratching any form of Majin Buu. End of story.

And again, Gohan wasn't even Ultimate.

And I'm 99% sure that the clip you showed is BEFORE the rage boost. So lol.

[Kid Buu]

Vegeta destroys Buu ship, and Fat Buu is released at only 50% of his power.

Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, & Supreme Kai fight Buu at half his power.

No SSJ3.

Who takes it?

[RandomGuy96]

Vegeta destroys Buu ship, and Fat Buu is released at only 50% of his power.

Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, & Supreme Kai fight Buu at half his power.

No SSJ3.

Who takes it?

I go with the power scaling suggested by the meter, which implies Fat Buu = x2-x2.5 SS2 Gohan; so Goku alone would take it with ease. The other two would probably lose if they tried to fight him one on one. A team attack is complete overkill. The only hope Fat Buu has is getting a rage boost, powering up to his maximum, and releasing Grey Buu and Good Buu, but we all know that wouldn't happen.

[ZombieVito]

And I'm 99% sure that the clip you showed is BEFORE the rage boost. So lol.

Nope, the first fight happens in the air, the second one in the ground.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Ht3t_UgjE

0:33, there's the continuation.

Besides at the end of the film Birusu comments Goku and Vegeta will be great opponents later down the line. No mention of Gohan or Gotenks.

[dbzfan7]

There is, again, no basis for Vegeta being that strong. You have to assume that Beers for no reason suppressed himself to the exact same level he fought Gohan at (no evidence, especially since we just saw him suppressed to a lesser level not five seconds earlier), that he actually cared about Vegeta attacking him (no evidence), that Beers powered up to tank the Galick Gun (no evidence), or that Vegeta was anywhere close to begin with (no evidence). He tried to attack Beers, and Beers tanked every hit, including his biggest strongest attack. Enraged SS2 Vegeta has NO FEATS. None at all. So yeah, it requires a lot of baseless assumptions and violations of internal logic. On top of that, Vegeta is only said to surpass Goku. Not Gohan or Gotenks.

And again, Gohan wasn't even Ultimate.

This.

Vegeta destroys Buu ship, and Fat Buu is released at only 50% of his power.

Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, & Supreme Kai fight Buu at half his power.

No SSJ3.

Who takes it?

I'd say the team would win.

[ZombieVito]

A writer (don't remember who) said he was ultimate....

[RandomGuy96]

A writer (don't remember who) said he was ultimate....

The story says he isn't....

I also find that claim fishy. If he really intended it, you'd think he'd notice the error faaaaaaar before a bunch of fans started bitching about it. But nope.

Gohan was originally intended to just be a Super Saiyan. He wasn't Ultimate, that was a poorly done last minute visual change. And if you watch the movie assuming he's a Super Saiyan, everything makes much more sense.

[Dr. Machismo]

A writer (don't remember who) said he was ultimate....

The story says he isn't....

I also find that claim fishy. If he really intended it, you'd think he'd notice the error faaaaaaar before a bunch of fans started bitching about it. But nope.

Gohan was originally intended to just be a Super Saiyan. He wasn't Ultimate, that was a poorly done last minute visual change. And if you watch the movie assuming he's a Super Saiyan, everything makes much more sense.

Gohan clearly appeared using his gift from Old Kai in the movie ... so the story says he was.

Also, Gohan probably appeared as Super Saiyan before the movie's release as part of promoting the film.

[ZombieVito]

A writer (don't remember who) said he was ultimate....

The story says he isn't....

I also find that claim fishy. If he really intended it, you'd think he'd notice the error faaaaaaar before a bunch of fans started bitching about it. But nope.

Gohan was originally intended to just be a Super Saiyan. He wasn't Ultimate, that was a poorly done last minute visual change. And if you watch the movie assuming he's a Super Saiyan, everything makes much more sense.

I'm sorry but lol.

He was ultimate, period. You can't argue with a writer.

[Kaboom]

He was apparently both. He used his "Ultimate" power to try fighting Beers (even if that wasn't the case at one point)[/i], and then he used Super Saiyan either instead of or on top of that, however it works, for the Super Saiyan God ritual later.

[MDSTSSJ]

Gohan is in his Ultimate state and his appearance shows it perfectly!

SSJ Gohan to give better visual effect to the ritual.

[ZombieVito]

Yeah that what I believe as well. SSJ does nothing to Gohan in terms of power up.

I do believe he can get stronger in Ultimate tho.

[RandomGuy96]

A writer (don't remember who) said he was ultimate....

The story says he isn't....

I also find that claim fishy. If he really intended it, you'd think he'd notice the error faaaaaaar before a bunch of fans started bitching about it. But nope.

Gohan was originally intended to just be a Super Saiyan. He wasn't Ultimate, that was a poorly done last minute visual change. And if you watch the movie assuming he's a Super Saiyan, everything makes much more sense.

I'm sorry but lol.

He was ultimate, period. You can't argue with a writer.

Actually, I can, when the writer is apparently just trying to save face (do you seriously believe he never noticed this before fans complained?) and wrote a story that makes zero sense if Gohan was Ultimate.

He shouldn't even be able to turn Super Saiyan at all. The last time he was told to try that, he went Ultimate instead. So if he can, not only is it a sloppy change, it's a plothole.

He was originally a Super Saiyan, he was going to be a Super Saiyan before fans complained, and the movie treats him as a Super Saiyan.

[ZombieVito]

If the story makes or not sense is irrelevant. He was ultimate in the final movie. Deal with it.

[goku the krump dancer]

I interpret "Fire it up just like that" similar to someone saying "oh start the truck the same way you would start a car but you would drive it a bit differently". If somebody gave me a Truck to drive I would still have access to my car but obviously whenever I drive the truck I would drive it differently than I would a car.

[MDSTSSJ]

Actually, I can, when the writer is apparently just trying to save face (do you seriously believe he never noticed this before fans complained?) and wrote a story that makes zero sense if Gohan was Ultimate.

He shouldn't even be able to turn Super Saiyan at all. The last time he was told to try that, he went Ultimate instead. So if he can, not only is it a sloppy change, it's a plothole.

He was originally a Super Saiyan, he was going to be a Super Saiyan before fans complained, and the movie treats him as a Super Saiyan.

If I'm right, never said (as I recall) that Gohan could not transform in to SSJ again. Only said it was not necessary and the Ultimate is better.

Always the Super Saiyan state will be more spectacular than the Ultimate state in visual terms. Hey, I particularly like the way that Ultimate Gohan looks.

if we go right, plothole was his SSJ state at the time of the ritual.