Fusion in the Cell Saga?

[Coycoy88]

What if they had some how learned of the fusion technique during the wait for the Cell Games? At their strength level at that time, do you think it would of made a difference? Seeing how it took a SSJ2 to defeat him.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

What if they had some how learned of the fusion technique during the wait for the Cell Games? At their strength level at that time, do you think it would of made a difference? Seeing how it took a SSJ2 to defeat him.

The only people it would have been possible for is either Goku and Vegeta, or Tenshinhan and Yamcha. Yamhan might make the characters relevant again, but I don't think it would help them out that much, other than maybe the Shin Kikoho being amped up even more. Tenshinhan couldn't even scratch Semiperfect Cell with it though, so I'm not sure Yamhan's would do much more than push Perfect Cell back until he eventually collapses.

If Goku could somehow convince Vegeta to fuse with him, Gogeta would own Cell's ass, perhaps even without SS.

[Pantalones]

Yamhan might make the characters relevant again, but I don't think it would help them out that much, other than maybe the Shin Kikoho being amped up even more. Tenshinhan couldn't even scratch Semiperfect Cell with it though, so I'm not sure Yamhan's would do much more than push Perfect Cell back until he eventually collapses.

Ehhh... I dunno about that. If you believe that fusion literally multiplies the two characters' power levels together rather than not really working in a mathematical way at all, then even super-unrealistically-low "the humans never even surpass Ginyu" levels for both of them could still create a fusion with a power level in the multiple billions. Which, from most power-level lists I've seen, probably puts them at least in the same class as Perfect Cell, even if it might not be strong enough to completely wipe him out (depends on the list you're going by, but I know I've seen more than one list where nobody in the Cell saga was in the multiple-billions and several where the strongest characters--Cell and Gohan in their strongest forms--are the only ones who get there.)

For example, if Tenshinhan made it to 120,000 and Yamcha lagged behind at 40,000 they'd still end up at 4.8 billion. Even if Tenshinhan was only at 65,000 the fused form would still be at 2.6 billion. Going by that fusion formula you'd have to put their power levels absurdly, stupidly, unrealistically low for this point in the series (even worse than the "no humans ever surpass Ginyu" levels, I mean--I'm talking "nobody ever gets past 40,000" levels of absurdly, stupidly, unrealistically low numbers) to make them not hit the billions.
Of course, Yamhan wouldn't have Super Saiyan forms or anything for any further power-ups, but with a base form that strong and Shin Kikoho (if it could push back "Semi-Perfect" Cell even when Tenshinhan was at a huge power disadvantage, think: what kind of damage could it do to someone close to the same level? or weaker?) I doubt he'd really need them.

So yeah, pretty much any fusion of decently-powered characters (like "active fighter in the Freeza saga or later" levels, not like Oolong or Roshi or somebody) could probably completely overpower Cell, or at least give him a very tough fight. The only real problem would be that if it's the Fusion Dance type of fusion, it might run out before Cell's dead. Or if the characters fused don't have any super-destructive move capable of destroying Cell without leaving the possibility that he'd just regenerate... but then again almost everyone knows the Kamehameha, so that shouldn't be much of a problem.

====

Now, I don't buy that fusion would actually multiply Tenshinhan's exact power level number by Yamcha's, so I'm not sure Yamhan would actually be in the multiple-billions already if he was created during the Cell Games. But... I also don't think Tenshinhan or Yamcha would be that weak by the Cell saga, either. XD

[hleV]

If you believe that fusion literally multiplies the two characters' power levels together rather than not really working in a mathematical way at all, then...

That's only the case for Goku and Vegeta's Potara Fusion.

[dbgtFO]

If you believe that fusion literally multiplies the two characters' power levels together rather than not really working in a mathematical way at all, then...

That's only the case for Goku and Vegeta's Potara Fusion.

I don't see where that is stated.

[hleV]

If you believe that fusion literally multiplies the two characters' power levels together rather than not really working in a mathematical way at all, then...

That's only the case for Goku and Vegeta's Potara Fusion.

I don't see where that is stated.

Potara produces a stronger fusion than Metamorian one, right? So other fusions can't be multipliers of fusees' BPs.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Ehhh... I dunno about that. If you believe that fusion literally multiplies the two characters' power levels together rather than not really working in a mathematical way at all...

Who said anything about numbers? First off, this isn't the Potara fusion, its the Metamorean version. Even if it were Potara fusion, Kibitoshin is a perfect example of a less than formidable fusion result (the same role I think Yamhan would fill "strong, but not strong enough")....while using numbers, he should be a force to reckon with, even against Buu.

Honestly, I just treat fusions how I feel Toriyama would when writing the plot himself, and I don't think Yamhan would be up to the challenge...his Shin Kikoho would probably make a great stall tactic while waiting for Goku to convince Vegeta to use the technique with him.

[dbgtFO]

Potara produces a stronger fusion than Metamorian one, right? So other fusions can't be multipliers of fusees' BPs.

Oh right, if we are comparing Potara to Metamorean then yeah.

[Fox666]

Potara produces a stronger fusion than Metamorian one, right? So other fusions can't be multipliers of fusees' BPs.

It depends, only if you believe "multiplication" was meant to be taken literally. Otherwise Potara would be a "strong multiplication" while the Metamorian was a "weak multiplication".

[hleV]

Potara produces a stronger fusion than Metamorian one, right? So other fusions can't be multipliers of fusees' BPs.

Oh right, if we are comparing Potara to Metamorean then yeah.

With Potara Fusion the multiplier of BPs isn't always the case too, as proven by Kibitoshin being comparably weak. I guess it depends on either if the fusees are rivals or not, but there's no such statement so it's up for one's imagination.

Potara produces a stronger fusion than Metamorian one, right? So other fusions can't be multipliers of fusees' BPs.

It depends, only if you believe "multiplication" was meant to be taken literally. Otherwise Potara would be a "strong multiplication" while the Metamorian was a "weak multiplication".

Why wouldn't you take Goku's BP x Vegeta's BP literally, especially when it doesn't contradict anything? People are fine with SSJ2 and SSJ3 multipliers.

[Bussani]

Why wouldn't you take Goku's BP x Vegeta's BP literally, especially when it doesn't contradict anything? People are fine with SSJ2 and SSJ3 multipliers.

I may be wrong, but I don't remember it being that explicit. It was something like, "Fusion is not an addition of two battle powers, but rather as great as multiplication," and the "Goku x Vegeta = Vegetto" line was more of a blurb than part of a sentence. I don't have a problem with Vegetto being that strong, personally, but I can see how people could debate the meaning.

Personally, I don't think there's a set formula that applies to all fusions. I think the resulting strength depends on a lot of factors, but mostly the compatibility of the two people fusing and how their strengths and weaknesses come together to form a single entity. That said, almost every fusion we see is stronger than the sum of its parts, which would make it at least a better boost than Super Saiyan 2, assuming you believe that's only twice as powerful as Super Saiyan 1. Gogeta should almost certainly be stronger than Cell.

[dbgtFO]

With Potara Fusion the multiplier of BPs isn't always the case too, as proven by Kibitoshin being comparably weak. I guess it depends on either if the fusees are rivals or not, but there's no such statement so it's up for one's imagination.

Well I don't buy that they got a different boost. The whole point of Vegetto being much stronger than "Kibitoshin" was because of Goku and Vegeta being incredibly strong in the first place, not because they got a haxed boost "Kibitoshin" didn't get.
If that means it's SSJ 2 Vegeta x SSJ 3 Goku, I don't know.

[Kaboom]

It doesn't matter if "GOKU X VEGETA" is meant to be taken literally or metaphorically, because the result is the same: Vegetto's power is way too freakin' high to comprehend or calculate. It's more about the nature of Vegetto than making any sort of standard "formula" for Potara Fusion.

[Nineteen]

Well, let's see how well the guys do under my formula going by the assumption that the Fusion Dance multiplies battle power:

My numbers for the Cell-saga Human fighters:

Krillin - 165,000
Tenshinhan - 115,000
Yamcha - 65,000

Krillinhan - 18,975,000,000
Krilcha - 10,725,000,000
Tencha - 7,475,000,000

And I have initial Perfect Cell at 1,200,000,000, with the zenkai boost pushing him up to around 1,800,000,000

So yeah, even the humans stomp.

Of course, I don't think that the Fusion Dance is a multiplier effect. I believe it's an addition with something extra tacked on to account for personality. Gotenks didn't seem like he was anywhere near Trunks times Goten.

EDIT: As for the Saiyans, again assuming that the Metamorian Fusion Dance is a multiplier effect, using my numbers:

FP SSJ Goku: 1,050,000,000
FP SSJ Gohan: 950,000,000
SSJ Grade I Vegeta: 750,000,000
SSJ Grade II Trunks: 1,000,000,000

Gokan: 1.995e+16
SSJ Gokan: 9.975e+17
Gogeta: 1.575e+16
SSJ Gogeta: 7.875e+17
Gokens: 2.1e+16
SSJ Gokens: 1.05e+18

And so on. When you've hit exponentials, you've probably gone too far. Base form "Gokan", for instance, in this scenario, would have a battle power of 19,950,000,000,000,000,000, or about eleven thousand times stronger than what I peg Super Perfect Cell at. The difference, to put it in a DBZ perspective, is about the same as that between Goku during his fight with Vegeta and 100% Freeza. I... don't buy it.

[p123]

Fusion is too extreme, PC/SPC whatever you want gets wrecked...

[CatouttaHell]

Agreed, the implications of Gotenks' power shows that fusion is beastly.

Even if it was just a fusion of Vegeta and Trunks they'd finger-flick Enraged SSjin 2 Gohan and Post-Self Destruction Cell in their base form.

[hleV]

SSJ Gotenks ~ SSJ3 Goku, right?
So Gotenks is around 8 (let's say up to 10) times stronger than Goku.
So however strong Trunks and Goten are, Gotenks ends up how many times stronger? That depends, of course.

But fused Humans couldn't do shit against Cell.

[Fox666]

SSJ Gotenks ~ SSJ3 Goku, right?
So Gotenks is around 8 (let's say up to 10) times stronger than Goku.

There is no measurement for such a thing.

However, there is no indication that Goku & co. could sense Gotenks Ki from the Kaioshin Realm, like they could with Goku as a Super Saiyan 3 or Evil Boo after he absorbed the good part.

[p123]

Then why did Goku ask for where the boys ki went?

[Kaboom]

SSJ Gotenks ~ SSJ3 Goku, right?
So Gotenks is around 8 (let's say up to 10) times stronger than Goku.

There is no measurement for such a thing.

I think he was just using the official Super Saiyan boosts as a guide. With which Super Saiyan 3 is roughly a whopping 8 times stronger than Super Saiyan 1.