The "smaller than flea" argument.

[Stark the lone wolf]

It is only an excuse, goku flat out stated that the reason they couldn't beat super buu was because they were weak

[dbzfan7]

We got another CODE PINK.

I still don't understand the flea argument. It seems like a desperate one. There have been better one's then that.

[Axiom]

Chapter: 508 (DBZ 314), P4.2-7
Kaioshin: “In m…my era there were five Kaioshins…until they were defeated by the Majin Boo that the wizard Babidi created…I was the youngest and most powerless one, but I somehow survived, with only heavy injuries…But the other four fell to Boo…First, two were killed…the North Kaioshin and the West Kaioshin….And then the South Kaioshin, the burliest and strongest one, was…somehow absorbed by Boo….. “
Elder Kaioshin: …And he became that huge Boo from before? “
Kaioshin: “…Yes…Next to be absorbed was the fat but kind and gentle Dai-Kaioshin….The Majin Boo that Bibidi created was evil itself, a failed creation that even Bibidi himself couldn’t handle, but by absorbing the Dai-Kaioshin, he somehow become controllable…. “
Elder Kaioshin: “…So he was finally completed…Which is to say…that this current…small Majin Boo…is the initial…mo…most troublesome one…”
Kaioshin: “….Yes…the heart which he gained by going so far as to lower his power through absorption…has returned once again to the way it was…he has no self-control whatsoever…he has become evil itself…”

He specifically says that Dai Kaioshin made him controllable. Nothing is ever said about South Kaioshin making him weaker.[/quote]
No. It specifically says Dai Kaioshin made him more controllable, but it said the absorption(s) made him weaker. Actually, reading back through it, it HEAVILY implies that LOSING Kais is actually raising his power. So the first Kai calmed and weakended him and the next one compounded more so over that - which explains why Buu POWERS UP when the Kais are being removed from him body. Nothing is EVER stated about a Kai or Kai energy being compatible with Buu, or that he gained power with any absorbtion of them. It makes sense in my book.

[mAcChaos]

You know, this would be a good reason why Vegito defuses inside Buu. It's not some random reason, it's because Buu is completely incompatible with the Kai's.

[TheGmGoken]

I can see this turning into a Code Pink.

[mAcChaos]

Do I want to know.

[Axiom]

'Buff Buu' specifically said to be Pure Buu with the South Kaioshin absorbed. The manga makes it very, very clear that they're different since... well, Kibitoshin says that Pure Buu with the South Kaioshin absorbed is Buff Buu. Extremely simple. As if that's not enough, Vegeta specifies that Super Buu did two transformations, one to Buff and then to Pure, the video games differentiate them, and Old Kai differentiates them by calling one "that huge Boo from before" and the other "the initial, most troublesome Boo".

It is never stated Pure Buu is stronger. Only Buff. It is, however, indirectly stated he's weaker like half a dozen times. Goku even compares them fighting Super Buu to Vegetto fighting Pure Buu. That's how different they are.

Kibitoshin says that the Dai Kaioshin weakened him. He says nothing about Southy doing the same. In addition, the Daizenshuu also says that only Dai weakened him, without mentioning South.

So let's clarify:
-Pure Buu is never stated to be stronger
-Buff Buu is stated to be different than Pure Buu. They even outline exactly what makes him different.
-South Kaioshin is never said to weaken Pure Buu, so saying "the transformations made him weaker" is a lie.

So stop making things up.

XD Dude, you have No clue what you are talking about.
Nothing, and I mean nothing you stated is in the manga - you just spout off at the hip as usual without knowing what the hell your talking about.
So here you go






Where did Vegeta mention 2 transformations? All we see is Buu swell up and turn into Kidbuu, the Kai comments about the buff size AFTER the transformation and Vegeta never mentions it. Furthermore, when Vegeta's confidence in fighting Buu is based on his size (which it can't be Ki, or he would have already known), as later he's surprised at how powerful this Buu is (which we are warned about a few panels later by Kibito)

[TheGmGoken]

Confused. What does this have to do with being smaller than a flee?

[Axiom]

Confused. What does this have to do with being smaller than a flee?

Everything.

[Kaboom]

How the hell did "Pure Boo Vs Evil Boo" get dragged into this topic?

[Kamiccolo9]

How the hell did "Pure Boo Vs Evil Boo" get dragged into this topic?

It's the same thing - if Goku states definatively that he could beat fatbuu, it doesn't matter what "Rage Boost" buu is capable of, we are assuming that is already considered in his statement.

Honestly, things don't match up

SuperBuu is obviously stated to be stronger than Fatbuu. Nothing indicates that Fatbuu ever reaches his level of power.
KidBuu is obviously stronger than FatBuu as well, this is based on Vegeta and Goku's reaction
Goku doesn't think he can beat SuperBuu
Kidbuu (BuffBuu, which isn't mentioned in any media) is said to be stronger tha Superbuu
Goku assumes he can fight on KidBuu's level

Gohan is shown to be superior to Superbuu
Goku suggest both Gohan AND Gotenks are needed to fight Kidbuu

I just assume Goku > KidBuu > SuperBuu > FatBuu

This happened for some reason.

[RandomGuy96]

I had a big response typed up for how wrong that is, buuuuuut it's apparent that it's not an appreciated conversation here. So see ya.

[dbzfan7]

I had a big response typed up for how wrong that is, buuuuuut it's apparent that it's not an appreciated conversation here. So see ya.

Can we still see it anyways? Better yet create a debunk thread.

[RandomGuy96]

I had a big response typed up for how wrong that is, buuuuuut it's apparent that it's not an appreciated conversation here. So see ya.

Can we still see it anyways? Better yet create a debunk thread.

Nah. I'm tired of this conversation. You can go right ahead, though.

[dbzfan7]

I had a big response typed up for how wrong that is, buuuuuut it's apparent that it's not an appreciated conversation here. So see ya.

Can we still see it anyways? Better yet create a debunk thread.

Nah. I'm tired of this conversation. You can go right ahead, though.

Wouldn't matter what I or anyone says.

[Hitiro]

No. It specifically says Dai Kaioshin made him more controllable, but it said the absorption(s) made him weaker. Actually, reading back through it, it HEAVILY implies that LOSING Kais is actually raising his power. So the first Kai calmed and weakended him and the next one compounded more so over that - which explains why Buu POWERS UP when the Kais are being removed from him body. Nothing is EVER stated about a Kai or Kai energy being compatible with Buu, or that he gained power with any absorbtion of them. It makes sense in my book.

You realise why there are brackets around the "s" after absorption, right? In the Japanese language it is hard to clarify whether the word is a plural or a noun. So what Dai Kaioshin may have said was "absorption", as in a single absorption. It makes more sense that it is a single absorption unless you think he is on about multiple. Seeing as you think that is the case then I guess Gotenks and Gohan made Boo weaker too and weaker means stronger in the story?

[Nazi Cola]

Goku was bluffing. It's obvious by his expression after his blast failed to even dent Boo's insides that he didn't know his power had changed. The flea argument is desperation at its finest.

[Axiom]

No. It specifically says Dai Kaioshin made him more controllable, but it said the absorption(s) made him weaker. Actually, reading back through it, it HEAVILY implies that LOSING Kais is actually raising his power. So the first Kai calmed and weakended him and the next one compounded more so over that - which explains why Buu POWERS UP when the Kais are being removed from him body. Nothing is EVER stated about a Kai or Kai energy being compatible with Buu, or that he gained power with any absorbtion of them. It makes sense in my book.

You realise why there are brackets around the "s" after absorption, right? In the Japanese language it is hard to clarify whether the word is a plural or a noun. So what Dai Kaioshin may have said was "absorption", as in a single absorption. It makes more sense that it is a single absorption unless you think he is on about multiple. Seeing as you think that is the case then I guess Gotenks and Gohan made Boo weaker too and weaker means stronger in the story?

Negative Captain - he is for sure talking about the Kai's that were originally absorbed, not anyone else. He also says in the viz translation "The souls he ate tamed him" Plural, and again, all while they are specifically talking about the Kais.

[PerfectFreeza]

Daizenshuu 7 says only Dai Kaioshin weakened him.
Also:
Kaioshin: “…Yes…Next to be absorbed was the fat but kind and gentle Dai-Kaioshin….The Majin Boo that Bibidi created was evil itself, a failed creation that even Bibidi himself couldn’t handle, but by absorbing the Dai-Kaioshin, he somehow become controllable…. “
It's clear only Dai Kaioshin weakened him, but not South Kaioshin.

[Kakashi]

No. It specifically says Dai Kaioshin made him more controllable, but it said the absorption(s) made him weaker. Actually, reading back through it, it HEAVILY implies that LOSING Kais is actually raising his power. So the first Kai calmed and weakended him and the next one compounded more so over that - which explains why Buu POWERS UP when the Kais are being removed from him body. Nothing is EVER stated about a Kai or Kai energy being compatible with Buu, or that he gained power with any absorbtion of them. It makes sense in my book.

You realise why there are brackets around the "s" after absorption, right? In the Japanese language it is hard to clarify whether the word is a plural or a noun. So what Dai Kaioshin may have said was "absorption", as in a single absorption. It makes more sense that it is a single absorption unless you think he is on about multiple. Seeing as you think that is the case then I guess Gotenks and Gohan made Boo weaker too and weaker means stronger in the story?

Negative Captain - he is for sure talking about the Kai's that were originally absorbed, not anyone else. He also says in the viz translation "The souls he ate tamed him" Plural, and again, all while they are specifically talking about the Kais.

This is completely false, and most likely brought about by the anime, and Viz's translation doesn't help. In the original Japanese, after Kibitoshin explains Boo's past, Elder Kaioshin ascertains that the he was finally complete and that Pure Boo is the most troublesome one. Kibitoshin then says that the heart he gained by lowering his power through absorption has returned to the way it was. Daizenshuu #7 states that only Dai Kaioshin weakened Boo. Most Pure Boo supporters dismiss the daizenshuu entry as just "guidebook crap," and dismiss the original Japanese translation as just "another fan translation" and say that Viz is the only good translation because it's official. In the Viz translation, Elder Kaioshin states that the "souls [Boo] ate tamed him," which is easy for Pure Boo supporters to say proves that both the Kais weakened Boo. But this isn't so, because even if the Japanese translation is translated by a fan, it's a direct translation, and not an "adaptation" like the Viz translation, so it is more accurate, whether the Pure Boo supporters want to accept that or not.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... =8&t=23381