SSJ3 Goku X Kaioken

[i'mfuckingevil]

Okay, now although it has been stated by Toriyama (is there even a source for this) that Mystic Gohan is the strongest nonfused character in the Dragon Ball manga (because I don't believe it's true, I will always believe it is SSJ3 Goku), I believe that a character transformation that we've never seen before is the strongest, but was unfortunately never demonstrated.

In a filler episode, Goku does the Super Kaioken technique, I don't remember what he did first but I'd say it was SSJ. So if he were to make a regular technique, he'd always go SSJ first because that is a natural, genetic transformation, energy within himself that he's turning potential into kinetic. Kaioken should be done after since it is an acquired technique...

With that being said, I think that a hypothetical Super Kaioken 3 transformation would ultimately make Goku the most powerful character of all, perhaps even surpassing a hypothetical SSJ3 Gohan had he continued working out after the Cell saga. I don't think he'd be able to multiply its power, since SSJ3 already takes up so much energy. Unless of course he had his tail. I don't know if it was a GT thing but I always thought in the manga if Goku had his tail back and went SSJ 3 he would be unstoppable as his energy would not prevent him.

[KentalSSJ6]

Except before Battle of Gods, Mystic Gohan IS the strongest unfused character. He dominated his entire fight with Super Buu, who SSJ3 Goku (along with SSJ2 Vegeta) and a SSJ3 Gotenks couldn't beat. Buu only started winning after absorbing Gotenks.

[flashback0180]

Except before Battle of Gods, Mystic Gohan IS the strongest unfused character. He dominated his entire fight with Super Buu, who SSJ3 Goku (along with SSJ2 Vegeta) and a SSJ3 Gotenks couldn't beat. Buu only started winning after absorbing Gotenks.

Well if you add GT then Mystic Gohan is nothing compared to most of the main villains and SSJ4's.
But even so Super buu was stronger.

[KentalSSJ6]

Except before Battle of Gods, Mystic Gohan IS the strongest unfused character. He dominated his entire fight with Super Buu, who SSJ3 Goku (along with SSJ2 Vegeta) and a SSJ3 Gotenks couldn't beat. Buu only started winning after absorbing Gotenks.

Well if you add GT then Mystic Gohan is nothing compared to most of the main villains and SSJ4's.
But even so Super buu was stronger.

Pre BOG - Super Vegito > Buuhan > Buutenks > Mystic Gohan > Super Buu > SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku.

[i'mfuckingevil]

Except before Battle of Gods, Mystic Gohan IS the strongest unfused character. He dominated his entire fight with Super Buu, who SSJ3 Goku (along with SSJ2 Vegeta) and a SSJ3 Gotenks couldn't beat. Buu only started winning after absorbing Gotenks.

Let me start by saying I don't care what anyone says, BOG is not canon.

Also, I don't want to turn this into a "is mystic Gohan truly the strongest or not" thread, but if he really is, then how come when Vegeta wished for everyone that Buu killed back to life, Goku didn't just use instant transmission to get back to earth, grab Gohan, and then go back to the other world so that Gohan could take out Buu?

[chaospunishment]

The actual reason was that Goku had the be the hero.

[KentalSSJ6]

Except before Battle of Gods, Mystic Gohan IS the strongest unfused character. He dominated his entire fight with Super Buu, who SSJ3 Goku (along with SSJ2 Vegeta) and a SSJ3 Gotenks couldn't beat. Buu only started winning after absorbing Gotenks.

Let me start by saying I don't care what anyone says, BOG is not canon.

Also, I don't want to turn this into a "is mystic Gohan truly the strongest or not" thread, but if he really is, then how come when Vegeta wished for everyone that Buu killed back to life, Goku didn't just use instant transmission to get back to earth, grab Gohan, and then go back to the other world so that Gohan could take out Buu?

There is no canon. How many times must that be said?

[TheGmGoken]

now although it has been stated by Toriyama (is there even a source for this) that Mystic Gohan is the strongest nonfused character in the Dragon Ball manga

False Fan made rumor. Though BoG website hints pre Bog Gohan was the strongest. Also Goku did "Super Kaioken" only because logically he was dead so his body can handle more AND the fact FPSSJ/MSSJ have ZERO strain as if they were in Base form. Goku with SSj3 even when he's dead has so much stress that a Kaioken added to that will kill him instant.

Gohan is logically the strongest Pre BoG

[Bussani]

Also, I don't want to turn this into a "is mystic Gohan truly the strongest or not" thread, but if he really is, then how come when Vegeta wished for everyone that Buu killed back to life, Goku didn't just use instant transmission to get back to earth, grab Gohan, and then go back to the other world so that Gohan could take out Buu?

Goku actually suggests that when the wish is made, thinking it's what Vegeta has in mind, but Vegeta reveals his whole plan of having Earth save themselves for once and the idea of bringing Gohan and Gotenks gets tossed aside. Bringing them really does seem like the logical move, but come to think of it, using the Potara seems like it would have been the logical move as well and Vegeta shot down that idea as well.

Oh well. I suppose it would have been disastrous if Buu had somehow managed to absorb Gohan and Gotenks again, so maybe keeping them at a distance was smart in its own way.

[Darkprince410]

Except before Battle of Gods, Mystic Gohan IS the strongest unfused character. He dominated his entire fight with Super Buu, who SSJ3 Goku (along with SSJ2 Vegeta) and a SSJ3 Gotenks couldn't beat. Buu only started winning after absorbing Gotenks.

Let me start by saying I don't care what anyone says, BOG is not canon.

Also, I don't want to turn this into a "is mystic Gohan truly the strongest or not" thread, but if he really is, then how come when Vegeta wished for everyone that Buu killed back to life, Goku didn't just use instant transmission to get back to earth, grab Gohan, and then go back to the other world so that Gohan could take out Buu?

As Bussani pointed out, Goku, after hearing the wishes that Vegeta wanted to have made with the Dragonballs, thought that his plan was to have the boys revived so that they could be brought up to fight Pure Buu, essentially saying that he he felt they could do what he (Goku) couldn't. Vegeta responded that it wasn't his intention for the boys to fight because he wanted Goku to use the Genki Dama, saying that he felt that mankind should have a hand in its own protection for once, rather than leaving it up to the Z Senshi and going on in ignorant bliss.

As for your Ssj3 + Kaiou-ken idea, there's no reason to believe that the Ssj3 form wouldn't allow him to multiply his strength, though it'd easily put a huge strain on his body (Ssj3 + normal Kaiou-ken would likely be the same kind of damage to his body that the Kaiou-ken 4x was during the Saiya-jin Saga, if not more). As for his tail, all that ever did in Dragonball in terms of his power was raise it. It didn't given him any extra stamina or endurance (it wasn't like his tail was some sort of ki battery or something), so it shouldn't increase the amount of time he could maintain the Kaiou-ken while Ssj3 (or maintain Ssj3 on its own).

[Low Tone G]

I've always thought about Kaio-ken that is a technique that allows the user to use his hidden strength for a short period, not that it gives power out of nowhere.
Goku was the only one he could handle this techique, as he had dormant powers(I know that Gohan had a lot of but, he didn't know the technique). So I think that using the Kaio-ken would kill Goku as an istant as his dormant powers would be too high for his body to handle.

So if Goku has big amount of dormant power, using SSJ3, would be to dangerous to apply Kaio-ken. As for SSJ2 I think could be more efficient as that is a more stable form and using KK 20x would put Goku higher than using SSJ3.

[TheGmGoken]

I've always thought about Kaio-ken that is a technique that allows the user to use his hidden strength for a short period, not that it gives power out of nowhere.
Goku was the only one he could handle this techique, as he had dormant powers(I know that Gohan had a lot of but, he didn't know the technique). So I think that using the Kaio-ken would kill Goku as an istant as his dormant powers would be too high for his body to handle.

So if Goku has big amount of dormant power, using SSJ3, would be to dangerous to apply Kaio-ken. As for SSJ2 I think could be more efficient as that is a more stable form and using KK 20x would put Goku higher than using SSJ3.

Goku can't use Kaioken in SSJ2 or SSj3. Hell he logically only used Kaioken in SSJ was because it was MSSJ and he was dead. SSJ2 most likely isn't master or still can't handle a Kaioken.

[Pantalones]

Yeah, Kaio-ken and SSj3 just seems like a bad combination. One of them drains your energy away rapidly and the other strains/damages your body.

Maybe SSj3 + Kaio-ken as some kind of super finishing move might work, but it'd be something along the lines of "I can only do this for one attack so it better work," not something he can actually fight in for an extended period of time. And it'd have to be used against a non-regenerating enemy that a strong physical attack could finish off, because we already know from the Kid Buu fight that SSj3's energy drain was too much for Goku to even build up a big enough amount of energy to blast Buu away on his own. With Kaio-ken strain on top of that I'd imagine he'd have an even harder time, so it'd be useless for building up huge blasts.

But maybe as a brief power-up for an extreme version of his "flying-through-the-bad-guy punch" that we saw against Piccolo and then later against Slug (and I think at least once in GT too), it could work. After fighting in SSj2 for a while and getting beaten, Goku goes SSj3, then fires up Kaio-ken and punches through New Villain Of The Day... and then as soon as the bad guy's dead he immediately drops out of SSj3 and collapses on the ground breathing heavily and barely being able to move from the combined strain of SSj3 and Kaio-ken. I don't think it'd kill him instantly or anything crazy like that, but it would definitely not be good for his body at all and could only be used in a quick burst for sure.

[mAcChaos]

If he somehow used Kaioken during SSJ3 he would probaly just explode on the spot.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The fact that Goku never used Kaio-ken & Super Saiyan together in the manga means that it would kill him. Even in the anime, he only uses it for a few seconds, implying that using it more would be dangerous, and it didn't prove to be that useful anyways. So yeah, with Kaio-ken being barely usable with SS in the anime, it should last for even shorter time in SS2, not to mention SS3, SS4, and SSGod, which makes it too dangerous & pointless.

[Polyphase Avatron]

If he somehow used Kaioken during SSJ3 he would probaly just explode on the spot.

True, SSJ3 puts more of a strain on the body than the other SSJ forms to begin with.

[xmysticgohanx]

which filler episode is this?

[KentalSSJ6]

which filler episode is this?

If you are referring to the episode where Goku uses the Super Kaio-ken, its during the Otherworld Budokai in his fight against Paikuhan.

[i'mfuckingevil]

Except before Battle of Gods, Mystic Gohan IS the strongest unfused character. He dominated his entire fight with Super Buu, who SSJ3 Goku (along with SSJ2 Vegeta) and a SSJ3 Gotenks couldn't beat. Buu only started winning after absorbing Gotenks.

Let me start by saying I don't care what anyone says, BOG is not canon.

Also, I don't want to turn this into a "is mystic Gohan truly the strongest or not" thread, but if he really is, then how come when Vegeta wished for everyone that Buu killed back to life, Goku didn't just use instant transmission to get back to earth, grab Gohan, and then go back to the other world so that Gohan could take out Buu?

There is no canon. How many times must that be said?

...what? Has it not been established that the manga is the story and therefore is the only canon that can be based on?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

...what? Has it not been established that the manga is the story and therefore is the only canon that can be based on?

No. There is no officially established canon.