Gohan not Ultimate anymore in RoF?

[Saitou Hajime]

The ability to turn SSJ notwithstanding, he doesn't even have the Ultimate eyes anymore in his normal state.

[OWmyDragonBallz]

Just take all this new era DB stuff with a grain of salt. DBZ ended back in 1996.

[sintzu]

DBZ ended back in 1996.

No it didn't.

[Marco Polo]

Toriyama basically made Goku and Vegeta Ultimate, except he calls it "absorbing Super Saiyan God's power" or something, because he forgot about the Ultimate form. I bet he had a huge grin when he came up with that, saying to himself "What a great I idea I just had, making Goku and Vegeta more powerful in their base form than in SSJ... this is totally original! I wonder why I didn't think of this during the manga".

However, Toei want to have at least one Super Saiyan in the movie for marketing reasons, so they made Gohan one because they can't do it with Goku and Vegeta and because Trunks and Goten are not in the movie.

[RancorSnp]

I really do not think that making a confident look determines either he is Ultimate or not, personally I do not see any difference in his eyes, he just makes more serious face.

[ZazamPow]

Just take all this new era DB stuff with a grain of salt. DBZ ended back in 1996.

Don't be so pessimistic.

[ZazamPow]

Toriyama basically made Goku and Vegeta Ultimate, except he calls it "absorbing Super Saiyan God's power" or something, because he forgot about the Ultimate form. I bet he had a huge grin when he came up with that, saying to himself "What a great I idea I just had, making Goku and Vegeta more powerful in their base form than in SSJ... this is totally original! I wonder why I didn't think of this during the manga".

However, Toei want to have at least one Super Saiyan in the movie for marketing reasons, so they made Gohan one because they can't do it with Goku and Vegeta and because Trunks and Goten are not in the movie.

You know what, even though that's a joke, I can honestly see Toriyama thinking that to himself while writing the new movie

[sintzu]

He was Ssj in BOG' trailers yet in the movie he was Mystic so they might be doing the same thing here.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

In BoG, Gohan could use both Super Saiyan & Ultimate. We know that he will turn into a Super Saiyan in FnF, but we don't know if he will use his Ultimate state, or if he will get the chance to use it. Maybe he will use Super Saiyan against Freeza's soldiers because there is no reason to use his full power on them, or maybe he will underestimate Freeza (because Freeza's past self was a weakling compared to him now) and hold back, only to get his ass kicked before getting the chance to show his full power (like with Gotenks in BoG), or maybe he will use both Super Saiyan & Ultimate.

As for his eyes in his base not being fully outlined, the fact that his eyes were fully outlined in the end of the manga means that this is a design error, but it doesn't mean that Gohan lost Ultimate. Toriyama made the same error in his drawings for BoG, meaning that he didn't notice that detail while re-reading the manga recently:

Spoiler:

So, it seems that this time, unlike with BoG, his error in the character design was passed in the final final product.

[VegettoEX]

No it didn't.

Don't be so pessimistic.

Please contribute more than one-line zingers. If you have something worth saying, we'd love to hear it. If not, keep it to yourselves.

[Hitiro]

DBZ ended back in 1996.

No it didn't.

It technically did. The last chapters were out during the year leading up to 1996.

[dbzfan7]

The God ritual basically stole away Gohan's feature and handed it to Goku. Goku being part of the second ritual probably shared it with Vegeta. To this day Goku and Vegeta are trying to find a way to steal Boo's regeneration and magical powers next. They'd love to be able to be practically invincible, and have an ability that makes food. Boo will probably not be in the film, as he fears the two saiyans will try to steal his powers like they did Gohan.

[Low Tone G]

The God ritual basically stole away Gohan's feature and handed it to Goku. Goku being part of the second ritual probably shared it with Vegeta. To this day Goku and Vegeta are trying to find a way to steal Boo's regeneration and magical powers next. They'd love to be able to be practically invincible, and have an ability that makes food. Boo will probably not be in the film, as he fears the two saiyans will try to steal his powers like they did Gohan.

I actually know that you are being sarcastic, but it's not a bad idea ad Gohan's Ultimate power was the cause that Goku was able absorb God power.

[gojirason]

The eye thing isn't actually anything new guys. The exact same thing happened in Movie 13.

Frankly I think pretty much 100% of the controversy surrounding Ultimate Gohan from as far back as Movie 13 and GT and the same "problems" happening now is because people refuse to accept that they don't understand how it actually works or won't drop their preconceived notions.

After literally 20 years of the exact same supposed issues over and over, it starts to look like it's less of an issue with the source material and more of an issue with the fans.

[Sandubadear]

It's not that he lost Ultimate. It's just that his Ultimate power isn't enough.

[Rocketman]

The eye thing isn't actually anything new guys. The exact same thing happened in Movie 13.

Frankly I think pretty much 100% of the controversy surrounding Ultimate Gohan from as far back as Movie 13 and GT and the same "problems" happening now is because people refuse to accept that they don't understand how it actually works or won't drop their preconceived notions.

After literally 20 years of the exact same supposed issues over and over, it starts to look like it's less of an issue with the source material and more of an issue with the fans.

Movie 13, GT and bog/Freeza 5: The Freezening aren't the source material. They contradict the source material, but since they outnumber it, people like you think they're right.

[gojirason]

The eye thing isn't actually anything new guys. The exact same thing happened in Movie 13.

Frankly I think pretty much 100% of the controversy surrounding Ultimate Gohan from as far back as Movie 13 and GT and the same "problems" happening now is because people refuse to accept that they don't understand how it actually works or won't drop their preconceived notions.

After literally 20 years of the exact same supposed issues over and over, it starts to look like it's less of an issue with the source material and more of an issue with the fans.

Movie 13, GT and bog/Freeza 5: The Freezening aren't the source material. They contradict the source material, but since they outnumber it, people like you think they're right.

Says the obvious elitist. Yes, the source where the events and information is coming from is source material. If we're talking about RoF (cough, we are, cough), then RoF and BoG pretty obviously count as source material regardless of any personal canon interpretations, and possibly movie 13 too. Even then, regardless of direct association, if the same phenomena is observed in both Movie 13 and RoF, it's a little foolhardy to say outright that there's no association.

At this point and under these circumstances, you might as well be saying that chapter 410 is not the source material, chapter 35 is.

The issue here is you're making a claim that you can't possibly prove. But then you claim that the other thing is wrong despite any indication to the contrary (aka existing) when you haven't definitively proven your point to begin with. Because you can't—not without a direct explicit statement to the exact effect of what you're entertaining.

[Dayspring]

I still feel Gohan uses SSJ to recoop lost power from lack of training. In other words, his SSJ is now on par with ultimate form.

[dbzfan7]

One thing I like to ask is...what do we gain from Gohan using SSJ over his Ultimate state? From a character, out of universe, and in this sub section battle wise, what do we really gain from this?

Is SSJ going to develop Gohan's character at all? Will the reason be he just lost touch with his inner self and has to use SSJ again? If that's the case then will Gohan react to this revelation, or just shrug it off and we get nothing from it. Will SSJ further his character like he stacked it on through secret training or something? Will this simply just be a punishment for not training as much? I don't know. I feel though this won't develop his character in anyway most likely.

Was it done so Gohan wouldn't be confused as hitting God status like Goku and Vegeta, I'd say probably. That's my theory. I feel this is a likely answer as we've had this happen before ala "Was he? Was he not SSJ2?" debates, so I think this is a possibility. I mean if some new person came and watched the film, they'd wonder why Gohan is like Goku and Vegeta, but so much weaker. Perhaps they could just learn he doesn't train and accept that, or maybe not.

Battle wise which is least important, does SSJ really add anything to his skills? Does this allow him to tap into his power better? Is this a punishment nerf? Is this so possibly it's more believable the army beats him up? If that last one is the case I'll be saddened.

Though really I wonder what exactly is the point of going this route. Even the simple answer of "Golden Super Saiyan cool" may be the reason.

[Rocketman]

Though really I wonder what exactly is the point of going this route.

It's not enough for Goku to win, everybody else has to lose.