How strong can goku get?

[GokuRules987]

My question is basically what are the Goku's ultimate limits? Or how strong could he maximum get before his physical body, mind and ki can no longer push itself farther for more power. We know that goku right now is at the prime age of being not too old and not too young so then that means his power should be coming to a close soon.

His physical body can at most withstand certain amount of strength before he needs to use ki in order to surpass those limits, but could he surpass his ki limits?

Can he raise his new godly ki to a cosmic level or if you watched the android 13 movie basically borrow the energy by creating a spirit bomb borrowing energy from the earth or even entire universe and use it as part of his body, although you might think that it was non canon and using that would most likely prove to be must strain on Goku body. I have to disagree because borrowing energy isn't exactly the same as using kaioken to multiply your power to every bit of your limits, when your borrowing energy its basically like controlling a huge robot, it becomes an extension of you, the energy isn't really inside of you but its around you and allowing you to control and use it like it was your own. That is what i am trying to say.

So now my question is if Goku did became as strong as he could possibly be, how strong would he actually be? could he destroy a galaxy with ease? could tank a super nova exploding at a point blank range? or could he even destroy a universe?

Please share your answers on how strong do you think Goku can get and what would he be able to do with his power.

[Lord Beerus]

Goku is as strong as Toriyama or Toei allow him to be.

[dbzfan7]

Goku is as strong as Toriyama or Toei allow him to be.

Pretty much. Just like how anyone is as useful as Toriyama wants them to be.

Though an In-universe answer, he can only keep going up til rapid age comes at him like a truck. Then gains will be pretty hard to come by. Those other statements just reek of things that make power level enthusiasts look bad. Like we only crave destruction. Goku blowing up Galaxies and Universes is not important.

[Hitiro]

Chapter: 309 (DBZ 115), P2.1
Context: after learning that Freeza killed Vegeta and is fighting Goku
Yamcha: “Da…damn it…That bastard’s too much for even Goku…”
Kaio: “They’re having a good match…[ ] The Saiyans are an odd group…No, maybe it’s just Goku…His strength has no limit…He’s like a completely different person than when he trained here…I don’t really understand him…”

^This basically.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Chapter 343 (DBZ 149), P11.1-5
Kuririn: “Th-that’s impossible…! Wh-why can he become a Super Saiyan…?! Don’t you have to have a tranquil heart to become one…!?”
Vegeta: “I was tranquil…Tranquil and pure…Pure evil, that is…I wished to get strong just by training earnestly…And so I went through stupendous training over and over again…Eventually, I realized my limits…Through my anger towards myself, I suddenly awakened…into a Super Saiyan!”

Chapter: 391 (DBZ 197), P1.3-4, P2.1-4
Context: talking about the Room of Spirit and Time
Vegeta: “Well, well…So even the great Kakarot admits defeat against the rigors of that room…”
Goku: “Maybe…But pointlessly toughening up my body more than this is just torture, not training. But I won’t object if you guys enter that room again. It looks like you still have room left to toughen up more.”
Vegeta: “What was that…? I don’t like that…The way you said that made it sound like you’re saying that your true ability is greater than mine…”
Goku: “Yeah, a whole lot greater, I think.”

It seems that after reaching the levels Goku & Vegeta reached when they became Super Saiyans (it's important to say that at this level the near-death power-ups became insignificant), they hit their limit. After that, the only way to get huge increases is by achieving more Super Saiyan forms, and by mastering Super Saiyan.

Look at Goku before & after the 3 years of hard training for preparation for the Artificial Humans. He is still on the same league as Trunks. The only huge increase he got in his base form was after RoSaT, which was mainly because of him mastering Super Saiyan. Look at him after 7 years of training. He has surpassed Gohan, but they are still on the same league. His base form after 4 more years of hard training is still below Freeza. And with Super Saiyan 3 being the limit of the Super Saiyan forms, since draws his dormant powers to their utmost limits, so I don't see him making any huge gains within his life-time.

... But that would have been my answer before BoG. Goku has now achieved Super Saiyan God, and he has absorbed its power to his base form, making all of his transformations useless, and he is currently training under the most powerful being in his universe. So, since the story has now restarted, and is still on-going, I don't think any of us can predict how strong he will become, other that he will eventually most likely surpass Whis. To get an idea of that: God Goku was a 6 in BoG, while Whis was a 15, meaning that in the end, Goku will go beyond 15.

[Hitiro]

Toriyama had said before BoG in an interview that the only limits the characters have are physical ones. And to go beyond them they need to increase their Ki. If they increase their Ki in base they'll only get stronger. So surely they have no limit in base either.

Your points also don't explain why characters are still training in their base forms in the Boo arc.

[ZazamPow]

Goku and everybody else is only limited by their age. That's the whole point of the series, they can do anything if they try hard enough.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Toriyama had said before BoG in an interview that the only limits the characters have are physical ones. And to go beyond them they need to increase their Ki. If they increase their Ki in base they'll only get stronger. So surely they have no limit in base either.

Your points also don't explain why characters are still training in their base forms in the Boo arc.

I never said, neither did the series ever show that the fighters can't get stronger at all after they hit their limit. From what we have seen, once they hit their limit, they grow stronger at a much slower rate. Look at Goku's gains through Saiyan & Freeza arcs, and look at his gains through the Cell & Boo arcs. Same goes for everyone. All of the Z-Senshi have gotten many thousands of times stronger during the series, but why can't Chaozu surpass Yamcha even though he still trains through the years, unlike Yamcha? Why can't Tenshinhan surpass Kuririn, even though he still trains through the years, unlike Kuririn? Why can't Piccolo surpass the Super Saiyans, even though he still trains through the years, unlike Gohan? Why can't base Goku reach Freeza's level, 16 years after their battle? Etc, etc.

Which is why I said that I don't see Goku making any huge gains within his life-time, if BoG & FnF had never happened (or if they never happened for you). His battle power can keep growing indefinitely, but not at the same rate as it used to be, as it's shown in the series. Even Goku said so.

[Hitiro]

I never said, neither did the series ever show that the fighters can't get stronger at all after they hit their limit. From what we have seen, once they hit their limit, they grow stronger at a much slower rate. Look at Goku's gains through Saiyan & Freeza arcs, and look at his gains through the Cell & Boo arcs. Same goes for everyone. All of the Z-Senshi have gotten many thousands of times stronger during the series, but why can't Chaozu surpass Yamcha even though he still trains through the years, unlike Yamcha? Why can't Tenshinhan surpass Kuririn, even though he still trains through the years, unlike Kuririn? Why can't Piccolo surpass the Super Saiyans, even though he still trains through the years, unlike Gohan? Why can't base Goku reach Freeza's level, 16 years after their battle? Etc, etc.

Which is why I said that I don't see Goku making any huge gains within his life-time, if BoG & FnF had never happened (or if they never happened for you). His battle power can keep growing indefinitely, but not at the same rate as it used to be, as it's shown in the series. Even Goku said so.

Well, a limit is supposed to be something that prevents you from progressing. When someone reaches the limit of their strength they aren't supposed to get any stronger. Unless you were trying to say that their gains have reached their limits? In which case that would make more sense. Because say, for instance, I am currently training and gaining 500,000 battle power for every training session. But my limit gain is actually 1 million battle power per training session. So I can still make my gains go faster. Once I reach that limit gain I would not be able get stronger any faster.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Well, a limit is supposed to be something that prevents you from progressing. When someone reaches the limit of their strength they aren't supposed to get any stronger.

This isn't what I'm saying, nor what the manga showed us. The manga showed that when someone reaches his limits, he gets stronger at a much slower rate. Which is why nor Goku, neither Piccolo (apparently), entered inside the RoSaT for a 2nd time. They realized that they had reached their limits, so it would have been useless for them to go there again.

I mean, look at Goku's gains after 6 months with Kaio in Saiyan arc, and look at his gains after 11 years with Kaio from Cell arc to BoG.

[The Monkey King]

Goku is as strong as Toriyama or Toei allow him to be.

These kind of posts are my pet peeves. We're in the in-universe discussion
forum. Posts like these don't help.

[sintzu]

I think as long as he takes care of himself and trains there will be no limits to how strong he can get.

[Hitiro]

This isn't what I'm saying, nor what the manga showed us. The manga showed that when someone reaches his limits, he gets stronger at a much slower rate. Which is why nor Goku, neither Piccolo (apparently), entered inside the RoSaT for a 2nd time. They realized that they had reached their limits, so it would have been useless for them to go there again.

I mean, look at Goku's gains after 6 months with Kaio in Saiyan arc, and look at his gains after 11 years with Kaio from Cell arc to BoG.

It never implies that they have reached their actual limits after the RoSaT. So I don't know why are you saying this. The only limit ever mentioned is the limits of SSJ. Which they were trying exceed. Goku says that pointlessly toughing up their bodies more than what they had done is just torture. Not training. That's why he doesn't bother training any further in the RoSaT. Like I said, unless they have reached their limits for training gains then what you're saying doesn't make sense. Because once they reach their limit in strength they would not be able to get any stronger. Hence why it is called limit.

[Mnich]

I'm not sure who said that, but it was probably Muten Roshi :

"No matter how strong you are, there will always be someone stronger who comes along."

So generally, with any new anime/movie/game, there's always someone stronger than our heroes. They have to train even more to defeat the threat, but eventually someone even stronger will show up. I think that his strenght has no limits, and with good training or some kind of ritual (SSJG), he can gain more and more.

[Dayspring]

Goku's strength limit is infinite because the whole point of the series is that from hard work and determination, you can surpass your own limits.

Goku becomes the strongest person in the world. Then we find out, he's weak by Saiyan standards, so just barely manages to defeat the strongest of all Saiyans. We then find out that only mutants can have Battle Powers between 30,000 and 1 million. So he obtains one of 3 million as his limit anyway. Then we find out that SSJ forms are not legendary, magical beings, but rather what occurs when a Saiyan surpasses his own limits.

They even joke about this, because SSJ2 happens when you surpass your SSJ limits and SSJ3 occurs when you unleash all of your untapped potential. This is why Goku and Gohan aren't amazed by Rou Kaioshin's ability.

It's literally impossible for any mortal to be a blip on the weakest Kaioshin's radar (they can all take out Freeza in one hit and nothing should be as strong as Freeza). Nevertheless, all the SSJs do exactly this over and over again. So to answer the question, Goku will get as strong as the story needs him to be, whereas he can potentially become stronger than everything that ever has or ever will exist.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

It never implies that they have reached their actual limits after the RoSaT. So I don't know why are you saying this. The only limit ever mentioned is the limits of SSJ. Which they were trying exceed. Goku says that pointlessly toughing up their bodies more than what they had done is just torture. Not training. That's why he doesn't bother training any further in the RoSaT. Like I said, unless they have reached their limits for training gains then what you're saying doesn't make sense. Because once they reach their limit in strength they would not be able to get any stronger. Hence why it is called limit.

Chapter: 391 (DBZ 197), P1.3-4, P2.1
Context: talking about the Room of Spirit and Time
Goku: “It’s quite tough on the body inside there, even when you’re not doing anything. It’s better for me to be able to get plenty of rest.”
Vegeta: “Well, well…So even the great Kakarot admits defeat against the rigors of that room…”
Goku: “Maybe…But pointlessly toughening up my body more than this is just torture, not training. But I won’t object if you guys enter that room again. It looks like you still have room left to toughen up more.”

What Goku means is that it would have been pointless for him to enter, because he would be just torturing himself, and he wouldn't get any results, while Vegeta & the others still have room for more results.

Because once they reach their limit in strength they would not be able to get any stronger. Hence why it is called limit.

This isn't what I mean. What I mean is, when someone reaches his limits, he can still train to go beyond their limits, but the results won't be as great as they were before that. This is how I see it, and this is what the manga shows. Again, look at the gains Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Kuririn, Tenshinhan, Yamcha, and Chaozu had after Freeza arc, excluding the gains they had by mastering Super Saiyan.

[Hitiro]

Chapter: 391 (DBZ 197), P1.3-4, P2.1
Context: talking about the Room of Spirit and Time
Goku: “It’s quite tough on the body inside there, even when you’re not doing anything. It’s better for me to be able to get plenty of rest.”
Vegeta: “Well, well…So even the great Kakarot admits defeat against the rigors of that room…”
Goku: “Maybe…But pointlessly toughening up my body more than this is just torture, not training. But I won’t object if you guys enter that room again. It looks like you still have room left to toughen up more.”

What Goku means is that it would have been pointless for him to enter, because he would be just torturing himself, and he wouldn't get any results, while Vegeta & the others still have room for more results.

What this means is that Goku had reached the limits of what this training will provide to him. Not that he had reached his own limits.

Because once they reach their limit in strength they would not be able to get any stronger. Hence why it is called limit.

This isn't what I mean. What I mean is, when someone reaches his limits, he can still train to go beyond their limits, but the results won't be as great as they were before that. This is how I see it, and this is what the manga shows. Again, look at the gains Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Kuririn, Tenshinhan, Yamcha, and Chaozu had after Freeza arc, excluding the gains they had by mastering Super Saiyan.

When someone trains they can break their limits, it's not just a simple matter of them training past them a limit is something that prevents you from progressing it doesn't slow you down. Breaking their limits is something completely different from just reaching their limits. Goku was said to surpass those limits several times in the manga and in actual fact he got much stronger from doing so. Goku was said to have surpassed his limits when he reached Namek and it caused him to get 10x stronger in 6 days. He then was said to have surpassed his limits again and got 33x stronger just from a few hours of healing.

And Goku had incredible gains after the Freeza arc still. He went from being weaker than the androids to being strong enough to rival a suppressed Perfect Cell. Clearly after that he had reach the limits of what that training would provide to him. But he certainly hasn't reached his own limit.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

And Goku had incredible gains after the Freeza arc still. He went from being weaker than the androids to being strong enough to rival a suppressed Perfect Cell. Clearly after that he had reach the limits of what that training would provide to him. But he certainly hasn't reached his own limit.

Goku's gains there don't exactly count. The majority of his gains came from mastering Super Saiyan, according to SEG.

[Hitiro]

Goku's gains there don't exactly count. The majority of his gains came from mastering Super Saiyan, according to SEG.

Gains are gains no matter how you count them. He still improved vastly with a couple of months training. Sparring with Gohan when they're both SSJ's still increased their Ki and Stamina by 10. Which is still a significant amount compared to the other training menu's.

[Sandubadear]

I never said, neither did the series ever show that the fighters can't get stronger at all after they hit their limit. From what we have seen, once they hit their limit, they grow stronger at a much slower rate. Look at Goku's gains through Saiyan & Freeza arcs, and look at his gains through the Cell & Boo arcs. Same goes for everyone. All of the Z-Senshi have gotten many thousands of times stronger during the series, but why can't Chaozu surpass Yamcha even though he still trains through the years, unlike Yamcha? Why can't Tenshinhan surpass Kuririn, even though he still trains through the years, unlike Kuririn? Why can't Piccolo surpass the Super Saiyans, even though he still trains through the years, unlike Gohan? Why can't base Goku reach Freeza's level, 16 years after their battle? Etc, etc.

Which is why I said that I don't see Goku making any huge gains within his life-time, if BoG & FnF had never happened (or if they never happened for you). His battle power can keep growing indefinitely, but not at the same rate as it used to be, as it's shown in the series. Even Goku said so.

*applause*

This exactly. Goku jumped from 300~400 to 8000 in a year, from 8000 to 90000 in a week, and from 90000 to 3,000,000 in a day. After that his power increases are slower, never reaching Frieza's 120kk. He trains for a year in Yardrat and three years for the androids but doesn't get much stronger, only gets substantial increases as he masters the Super Saiyan form in the RoSaT.