Who are the top 5 possible strongest characters?

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Re: Who are the top 5 possible strongest characters?

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:39 pm

That's reaching tbh.

There'd be no point in even mentioning greatest ki if it's not the greatest ki he knows of.

If he knew of a ki greater but didn't technically sense it he should've just said something along the lines of "what an amazing ki" or whatever.

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Re: Who are the top 5 possible strongest characters?

Post by Dyno » Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:44 pm

Hitiro wrote:I don't think it actually says which version of SSJ4 Goku, SSJ Vegetto was as strong as. It could be Bebi or the Evil Dragons saga. But it doesn't matter anyway, I think. Because there is no proof that Goku increased in strength between these arcs. He could still be the same strength he was when he went up against Bebi.
That guide came out at the sime time Super Saiyan 4 appeared in the series.

No, he couldn't. Super Saiyan 4 Kakarot is weaker than his self in Evil Dragons saga.

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Re: Who are the top 5 possible strongest characters?

Post by Bacon Skittles » Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:13 pm

I'm staying out of GT. The canon behind it is extremely mixed and inconsistent.

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Re: Who are the top 5 possible strongest characters?

Post by Dayspring » Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:59 pm

1. Beeis - the potara fusion of Whis and Beerus.
2. Whirus - the fusion dance of Whis and Beerus.
3. SSJ God Gokis - the potara fusion of SSJ God Goku and Whis.
4. SSJ God Whiku - the fusion dance of SSJ God Goku and Whis.
5. SSJ God Gorus - the potara fusion of SSJ God Goku and Beerus.

But yeah, Vegetto trumps SSJ4 Goku and Super Baby 1. If the official GT canon is that SSJ Vegetto is equal to SSJ4 Goku, then Vegetto going SSJ2 or SSJ3 would obviously be stronger than SSJ4 Goku. Goku wouldn't have sensed Vegetto's ki as a foreign ki and, even if he had, he wouldn't have sensed Vegetto's max since he never used it.
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Re: Who are the top 5 possible strongest characters?

Post by Hitiro » Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:03 pm

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:That's reaching tbh.

There'd be no point in even mentioning greatest ki if it's not the greatest ki he knows of.

If he knew of a ki greater but didn't technically sense it he should've just said something along the lines of "what an amazing ki" or whatever.
It's not really reaching, you can't feel your own Ki. That is just how it is.

Does he even say that it was the greatest Ki he has ever sensed? Because I've looked at a GT strength guide on another forum. And Goku certainly says Baby Vegeta is incredibly strong but Goku says nothing about Baby Vegeta being the strongest Ki he has ever sensed.
Dyno wrote:
Hitiro wrote:I don't think it actually says which version of SSJ4 Goku, SSJ Vegetto was as strong as. It could be Bebi or the Evil Dragons saga. But it doesn't matter anyway, I think. Because there is no proof that Goku increased in strength between these arcs. He could still be the same strength he was when he went up against Bebi.
That guide came out at the sime time Super Saiyan 4 appeared in the series.

No, he couldn't. Super Saiyan 4 Kakarot is weaker than his self in Evil Dragons saga.
Are you sure this was Vol 1 of the GT Perfect Files? I honestly can't find this information apart from people saying its in the GT Perfect Files. And the things that Herms has translated only mention Vegetto once in the transformations section. I thought the information was in Vol 2. Which would put it after GT. Herms also said this:
Herms wrote:
Galan007 wrote:What is the source of that excerpt? Should it be regarded of equal canonicity as the manga or Daizenshuu?
It's from the Chinese edition of the anime comics version of the GT special (the thing with Goku Junior). Apparently there's some sort of bonus section showcasing Goku's various forms throughout the series, and this is the entry for Vegetto.

I don't own the book myself, and have only seen this scan of the Chinese translation and not the Japanese original. Assuming it's all legit, I suppose it would fall into the same general category as the daizenshuu, since it's supplemental material published by Shueisha. I guess the main thing to weigh it against is the GT series itself. It's also got that classic non-committal "perhaps it's like this" thing the guides do sometimes, so there's a built-in degree of uncertainty.
So there is a book after the GT special that says SSJ Vegetto rivals SSJ4 Goku too.
Last edited by Hitiro on Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Who are the top 5 possible strongest characters?

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:17 pm

Hitiro wrote:It's not really reaching, you can't feel your own Ki. That is just how it is.
According to who? Who said you can't feel your own ki? Goku after getting his zenkai on Namek couldn't believe how strong he became. If he can't feel how strong he is, how does he even know? Is he just talking out of his ass? How do Goten and Trunks know how strong Gotenks is if they can't sense their ownselves fused?

And yes, it is reaching.

I find it pretty stupid for the writers to make the only two people who have been a part of Vegetto have lines with "greatest ki I ever felt" and "greatest Saiyan power", and not give us an indication it excludes Vegetto and expect us to come to the conclusion on our own. That's pretty misleading.
Does he even say that it was the greatest Ki he has ever sensed? Because I've looked at a GT strength guide on another forumAnd Goku certainly says Baby Vegeta is incredibly strong but Goku says nothing about Baby Vegeta being the strongest Ki he has ever sensed.
Yep, just checked my DVD. Watch episode 29.

Goku:"It's true! I've never felt a Ki as awesome as this!"

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Re: Who are the top 5 possible strongest characters?

Post by Hitiro » Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:17 pm

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:According to who? Who said you can't feel your own ki? Goku after getting his zenkai on Namek couldn't believe how strong he became. If he can't feel how strong he is, how does he even know? Is he just talking out of his ass? How do Goten and Trunks know how strong Gotenks is if they can't sense their ownselves fused?
That is pretty obvious. Are you telling me you can't judge your own strength? If you get stronger then you'd notice it. You feel lighter amongst other things. Though it is still hard to completely judge your own strength in comparison to others unless you've seen them while you are that strong. Gohan didn't know that he was stronger than his dad, he knew he had gotten stronger though.
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:I find it pretty stupid for the writers to make the only two people who have been a part of Vegetto have lines with "greatest ki I ever felt" and "greatest Saiyan power", and not give us an indication it excludes Vegetto and expect us to come to the conclusion on our own. That's pretty misleading.
Why? Sensing someones Ki has never been shown to work on the fighters themselves. How could they possibly compare Super Bebi 1's Ki to a Ki they couldn't sense because it was their own? I don't think it is misleading at all.
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:
Does he even say that it was the greatest Ki he has ever sensed? Because I've looked at a GT strength guide on another forumAnd Goku certainly says Baby Vegeta is incredibly strong but Goku says nothing about Baby Vegeta being the strongest Ki he has ever sensed.
Yep, just checked my DVD. Watch episode 29.

Goku:"It's true! I've never felt a Ki as awesome as this!"
Fair enough. But feeling the Ki of someone is something that you can only do against someone else. Otherwise why would Goku even ask Karin to measure his Ki against Cell's? Because Goku can't measure his Ki. All he knows is he is pretty strong. The last strong Ki he would have sensed is Boohan as Vegetto. He would have no way of sensing his own Ki. If he could sense his own Ki I think it would have been mentioned in at least one chapter over the whole manga.

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Re: Who are the top 5 possible strongest characters?

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:26 pm

That is pretty obvious. Are you telling me you can't judge your own strength? If you get stronger then you'd notice it. You feel lighter amongst other things. Though it is still hard to completely judge your own strength in comparison to others unless you've seen them while you are that strong. Gohan didn't know that he was stronger than his dad, he knew he had gotten stronger though.
But what is this based on? When is it ever established you can't know your own ki? Gohan didn't know he was stronger than his dad because he thought Goku wasn't going all out against Cell. He didn't realize that was Goku's full power.
Why? Sensing someones Ki has never been shown to work on the fighters themselves. How could they possibly compare Super Bebi 1's Ki to a Ki they couldn't sense because it was their own? I don't think it is misleading at all.
Nothing suggests you can't know your own ki. If you have the ability to sense ki, and you have ki, why wouldn't you be able to know it?

It is misleading, because Super Baby 1 say he has the greatest Saiyan power. But if Vegetto was stronger, then Baby Vegeta doesn't have the greatest Saiyan power. So that'd be them writing in a wrong line and giving no indication of it being wrong.
Fair enough. But feeling the Ki of someone is something that you can only do against someone else. Otherwise why would Goku even ask Karin to measure his Ki against Cell's? Because Goku can't measure his Ki. All he knows is he is pretty strong. The last strong Ki he would have sensed is Boohan as Vegetto. He would have no way of sensing his own Ki. If he could sense his own Ki I think it would have been mentioned in at least one chapter over the whole manga.
He asked Korin because Goku didn't know how strong Cell was.

He was asking Korin to tell Goku where he stands compared to Korin's expectation for Cell's full power., not what Goku had just seen from Cell. And he has to show Korin his power to be able to do that.

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Re: Who are the top 5 possible strongest characters?

Post by Hitiro » Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:18 pm

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:
That is pretty obvious. Are you telling me you can't judge your own strength? If you get stronger then you'd notice it. You feel lighter amongst other things. Though it is still hard to completely judge your own strength in comparison to others unless you've seen them while you are that strong. Gohan didn't know that he was stronger than his dad, he knew he had gotten stronger though.
But what is this based on? When is it ever established you can't know your own ki? Gohan didn't know he was stronger than his dad because he thought Goku wasn't going all out against Cell. He didn't realize that was Goku's full power.
Based on all of the chapters. No character even hints at being able to sense their own Ki. It's true Gohan thought Goku wasn't going all out. But he also didn't understand how strong he was either. If he could sense himself he would have realised it. Even after Goku told him that he was superior, Gohan had reservations about it.
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:
Why? Sensing someones Ki has never been shown to work on the fighters themselves. How could they possibly compare Super Bebi 1's Ki to a Ki they couldn't sense because it was their own? I don't think it is misleading at all.
Nothing suggests you can't know your own ki. If you have the ability to sense ki, and you have ki, why wouldn't you be able to know it?
There may be no actual lines saying that characters can't sense their own Ki. But we have the whole manga with absolutely no lines that say they can. Seriously, if there was the likelihood that they could we would have at least gotten one line considering the numerous amount of chapters we have.
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:It is misleading, because Super Baby 1 say he has the greatest Saiyan power. But if Vegetto was stronger, then Baby Vegeta doesn't have the greatest Saiyan power. So that'd be them writing in a wrong line and giving no indication of it being wrong.
Super Bebi 1 being the greatest Saiyan power isn't incorrect because Vegetto doesn't exist any more. You can't be the greatest if you don't exist any more. Now can you? It's the same with Vegeta saying that only Goku can beat Pure Boo on the Kaioshin home world. That is only the case because Gohan and the kids are dead now. So Goku truly is the only one who can beat Pure Boo. It's the same here really. The greatest Saiyan power would be the one currently existing.
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:
Fair enough. But feeling the Ki of someone is something that you can only do against someone else. Otherwise why would Goku even ask Karin to measure his Ki against Cell's? Because Goku can't measure his Ki. All he knows is he is pretty strong. The last strong Ki he would have sensed is Boohan as Vegetto. He would have no way of sensing his own Ki. If he could sense his own Ki I think it would have been mentioned in at least one chapter over the whole manga.
He asked Karin because Goku didn't know how strong Cell was.
Goku has perfectly fine sensing abilities. Probably the best amongst all the characters considering he can teleport to planets lightyears away by sensing distant Ki. Karin shouldn't know how strong Cell is either.
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:He was asking Karin to tell Goku where he stands compared to Karin's expectation for Cell's full power., not what Goku had just seen from Cell. And he has to show Karin his power to be able to do that.
If he is asking Karin to tell him where he stands compared to Cell's full power then he mustn't know what he is truly capable of either. Because there is nothing wrong with Goku's sensing ability. It would only make sense for him to ask Karin if the uncertainty were about his actual ability to fight against Cell. It also makes sense why characters that go against other fighters still think they can win despite clearly sensing the opponent. A prime example is Cell thinking he could take SSJ2 Gohan at full power. Unless he couldn't sense his own Ki to compare it to Gohan's then why would he even make this mistake?

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Re: Who are the top 5 possible strongest characters?

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:36 pm

Based on all of the chapters. No character even hints at being able to sense their own Ki. It's true Gohan thought Goku wasn't going all out. But he also didn't understand how strong he was either. If he could sense himself he would have realised it. Even after Goku told him that he was superior, Gohan had reservations about it.
He had his reservations about taking on Cell. He never doubted being superior to Goku after finding out Goku was giving it his all.
There may be no actual lines saying that characters can't sense their own Ki. But we have the whole manga with absolutely no lines that say they can. Seriously, if there was the likelihood that they could we would have at least gotten one line considering the numerous amount of chapters we have.
Because it's just logical.

Saying you can't sense your own ki even when you have ki is like saying you can't hear yourself when you're talking, or like saying you couldn't feel yourself when touching your own body, or not being able to smell yourself even if you have a specific scent.

Even if it's not outright stated, it's just common sense.

And we have gotten more than one line. Like I said Goten and Trunks were able to tell how strong Gotenks was.
Super Bebi 1 being the greatest Saiyan power isn't incorrect because Vegetto doesn't exist any more. You can't be the greatest if you don't exist any more. Now can you? It's the same with Vegeta saying that only Goku can beat Pure Boo on the Kaioshin home world. That is only the case because Gohan and the kids are dead now. So Goku truly is the only one who can beat Pure Boo. It's the same here really. The greatest Saiyan power would be the one currently existing.
But think about it.

Base Baby Vegeta was already stronger than SS3 Goku, which would make him the strongest current existing Saiyan already, but it's not until after he transforms does he say he has the greatest Saiyan power.

There'd be no point in that line if he was the strongest current existing Saiyan prior to that point also.
Goku has perfectly fine sensing abilities. Probably the best amongst all the characters considering he can teleport to planets lightyears away by sensing distant Ki. Karin shouldn't know how strong Cell is either.
If he is asking Karin to tell him where he stands compared to Cell's full power then he mustn't know what he is truly capable of either. Because there is nothing wrong with Goku's sensing ability. It would only make sense for him to ask Karin if the uncertainty were about his actual ability to fight against Cell. It also makes sense why characters that go against other fighters still think they can win despite clearly sensing the opponent. A prime example is Cell thinking he could take SSJ2 Gohan at full power. Unless he couldn't sense his own Ki to compare it to Gohan's then why would he even make this mistake?
It's not a matter of Goku's ki sensing abilities, Goku explicitly says Cell hasn't revealed his true power, and then he says Karin must have a pretty good idea of how strong Cell is.

So it's not a matter of Goku not being able to gauge himself, he just wanted Karin's take on Goku vs. Karin's expectation for Cell.

That example with Cell doesn't necessarily mean Cell couldn't judge himself, it's just plot-induced loss of Ki sensing / bad writing.

All of the Z-senshi, who should be able to sense Gohan and Cell, still were completely blown away by Cell's FP, and were gawking at Gohan's ability to two-shot Cell.

If they were sensing Gohan and Cell, they shouldn't have been worried at all, and wouldn't have been surprised at Gohan still being stronger than Cell, they would've just sensed Cell's power and thought "Oh well Gohan can still handle him."

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Re: Who are the top 5 possible strongest characters?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:34 pm

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:Super Baby 1 says he has the greatest saiyan power, and Goku calls Super Baby 1 the greatest ki he ever felt.

So Super Baby 1 > Super Vegetto
Goku said the exact same thing when he faced Janenba (1st Form), and then turned SS3 & kicked his ass. So, when he says "the strongest ki I've ever felt", it doesn't include himself, and Vegetto does count as Goku.
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Re: Who are the top 5 possible strongest characters?

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:20 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:So, when he says "the strongest ki I've ever felt", it doesn't include himself.
Who said this rule applies every time?

Janemba being the strongest ki ever is contradicted by Goku stomping him.

Super Baby 1 being the strongest ki ever is never contradicted.
and Vegetto does count as Goku.
Why is that? They're certainly not the same person.

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Re: Who are the top 5 possible strongest characters?

Post by Hitiro » Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:11 pm

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:So, when he says "the strongest ki I've ever felt", it doesn't include himself.
Who said this rule applies every time?

Janemba being the strongest ki ever is contradicted by Goku stomping him.
How is it contradicted? If Goku can't sense his own Ki then obviously there is no contradiction. Goku wouldn't have even made this comment if he could actually sense his own Ki because he would know that the strongest Ki he's ever felt would be his own. That is the point. You can't say it is contradicted by Goku stomping him because Goku stomping him has nothing to do with the strongest Ki Goku has ever felt. How strong Goku is, is irrelevant to point if he can't sense it. Goku could be a billion times stronger than him and that would still be the strongest Ki he has ever felt.
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:Super Baby 1 being the strongest ki ever is never contradicted.
This is a null point, because if Goku beats down Super Bebi 1 then Super Bebi 1's Ki would still be the greatest Ki he has ever felt. Because he wouldn't have sensed any other Ki like Bebi's.
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:
and Vegetto does count as Goku.
Why is that? They're certainly not the same person.
At that point Goku is Vegetto so how would Vegetto be able to sense his own Ki?
Last edited by Hitiro on Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Who are the top 5 possible strongest characters?

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:14 pm

Perhaps, I worded that funny....

Goku saying Janemba is the greatest ki he ever felt doesn't have to mean he doesn't include himself everytime he makes a power statement.

And Goku was a part of Vegetto, but he's now not, so there's no reason for Vegetto not to be included in "greatest Ki I ever felt" statements.

And Goku would know Vegetto's ki because, as mentioned before, Goten and Trunks knew how strong Gotenks was, so there'd be no reason for Goku to not know how strong his fusion is.

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Re: Who are the top 5 possible strongest characters?

Post by Hitiro » Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:17 pm

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:Perhaps, I worded that funny....

Goku saying Janemba is the greatest ki he ever felt doesn't mean have to mean he doesn't include himself everytime he makes a power statement.
If he can't sense himself then he would never be including himself in a "sensing power" statement. Because that would be a power excluded from being sensed as it is his own. Honestly, if he could sense himself there would be no reason for him to exclude himself from the power statement when he felt Janemba's Ki. The rule would apply every time. Not when he feels like it. It's either he can't sense his own Ki or he can. And based on that point it will determine whether any versions of himself should be included or excluded from the statement. If he can sense himself there is no reason for him to not include his power as something he has felt. If he can't sense himself then there is no reason for him to be included in something he has felt.
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:And Goku was a part of Vegetto, but he's now not, so there's no reason for Vegetto not to be included in "greatest Ki I ever felt" statements.
There would be a reason for him not to include Vegetto if he couldn't sense himself as Vegetto. That is the point. He can't just go "Well I'll include Vegetto into the Ki's I have felt in the past even though I never actually felt that Ki."

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Re: Who are the top 5 possible strongest characters?

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:27 pm

Except your whole argument relies on the fact that Goku never sensed Vegetto's ki when that makes no sense, since like I keep repeating, the boys knew how strong Gotenks was.

Even if you wanna say he didn't technically "sense" Vegetto, he would still know how strong he is, so there'd be no reason for him to say Baby-Vegeta's ki is the most incredible one he's felt if Vegetto was stronger.

And there'd be no reason for Baby-Vegeta to call himself the greatest Saiyan power if he was prior to transforming. It's only after his transformation does he make this declaration, implying he wasn't the greatest Saiyan power prior to that.

This whole "a person can't sense themselves" argument honestly sounds like a way to nerf GT and ignore any power statements from it. I couldn't imagine how someone who can sense ki and has ki wouldn't even be able to tell how strong they are. I never understood why people can't accept Vegetto being surpassed.

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Re: Who are the top 5 possible strongest characters?

Post by Hitiro » Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:50 pm

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:Except your whole argument relies on the fact that Goku never sensed Vegetto's ki when that makes no sense, since like I keep repeating, the boys knew how strong Gotenks was.
If they knew how strong Gotenks was why did they start off in base form? Twice I might add, they tried to take Boo on once before in just their base form. So clearly they don't know how strong Gotenks is. They just know that they got a lot stronger. Which is something anyone can gleam from training.
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:Even if you wanna say he didn't technically "sense" Vegetto, he would still know how strong he is, so there'd be no reason for him to say Baby-Vegeta's ki is the most incredible one he's felt if Vegetto was stronger.
But he doesn't know how strong Vegetto is in comparison to Super Bebi 1's strength. Battle powers and sensing Ki are in place for characters to gauge each other's strength. Vegetto didn't even have to use his full power against Boohan either so Goku wouldn't know what he was truly capable of as Vegetto. Cell also didn't know what he was capable of and asked for Vegeta to spar with him to see how strong he had become. If he could sense his own Ki. Don't you think it would be obvious how much of a difference between him and Vegeta there was? There would be a reason for Goku to say that Super Bebi 1's Ki was the strongest he felt. Because that is a fact. Goku did not say that Super Bebi was the strongest character. He is only referring to his Ki. By Goku's own memory of Ki's he has sensed in the past, this was certainly the highest he's felt. I mean if you're going to say there was no reason for him to say this when he felt how strong Vegetto was you could say the exact same thing for when he said it about Janemba. Yet Goku clearly says it here even if he knew he was stronger. Though without being able to sense his own Ki he would not have been able to tell that at first glance.

Further to support the argument. Vegeta wondered whether he had surpassed Gohan during the 7 years of peace time. Why would he wonder this if he could sense his own Ki? It would be obvious. And then again, Evil Boo also didn't know the difference between him and Gohan. He knew Gohan was strong but not by how much. If he could sense his own Ki he would know without fighting that he would lose.
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Context: after Gohan beats up on Boo
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[ ]
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SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:And there'd be no reason for Baby-Vegeta to call himself the greatest Saiyan power if he was prior to transforming. It's only after his transformation does he make this declaration, implying he wasn't the greatest Saiyan power prior to that.
There would be a reason for him to do this. Because Vegetto's power doesn't exist any more. I can claim to be the greatest boxer in the world if the person who was once the greatest is gone now. Because if that person is gone he can't be the greatest any more.
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:This whole "a person can't sense themselves" argument honestly sounds like a way to nerf GT and ignore any power statements from it. I never understood why people can't accept Vegetto being surpassed.
It's in no way meant to nerf the GT characters. This is just how the manga and anime seem to go. We never get a character stating he can sense his own Ki in all of the manga. So it does seem more than likely the case that a person can't sense their own Ki. And Vegetto was surpassed. By SSJ4 Gogeta and Omega Shenron.

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Re: Who are the top 5 possible strongest characters?

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:54 pm

Further to support the argument. Vegeta wondered whether he had surpassed Gohan during the 7 years of peace time. Why would he wonder this if he could sense his own Ki?
Because he didn't know how weak Gohan had become yet.
There would be a reason for him to do this. Because Vegetto's power doesn't exist any more. I can claim to be the greatest boxer in the world if the person who was once the greatest is gone now. Because if that person is gone he can't be the greatest any more.
Nope, Super Baby 1 says "I have now obtained the greatest of Saiyan power!"

Only when he transforms has he "now" obtained the greatest of Saiyan power, meaning he didn't have the greatest Saiyan power prior to transforming.

Yet prior to transforming, he was already stronger than Goku, who was stronger than everyother alive Saiyan at the time.

Thus leaving the only person to be surpassed Super Vegetto.

You can ignore Goku's comment but you can't ignore Baby-Vegeta saying "I have now obtained the of greatest Saiyan power!"

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SuperSaiyan2
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Re: Who are the top 5 possible strongest characters?

Post by SuperSaiyan2 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:22 am

Hitiro wrote:
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:Except your whole argument relies on the fact that Goku never sensed Vegetto's ki when that makes no sense, since like I keep repeating, the boys knew how strong Gotenks was.
If they knew how strong Gotenks was why did they start off in base form? Twice I might add, they tried to take Boo on once before in just their base form. So clearly they don't know how strong Gotenks is. They just know that they got a lot stronger. Which is something anyone can gleam from training.
Or maybe they underestimated Boo? It's pretty clear that Boo was holding back a substantial amount of power, otherwise Piccolo wouldn't have been so shocked when Base Gotenks was gettin his ass kicked.

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Re: Who are the top 5 possible strongest characters?

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:26 am

Piccolo and Trunks came to the same conclusion on their own. Buu was the one misjudged not Gotenks.

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