Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff
Wait, was he saying that SSJ2 Vegeta engraged caused him to use more power than SSJ3 Goku which is supposed to have a multiplier of X4 on SSJ2????Beerus: "It's been a long time since I've used 10% or so of my full strength. Well, this was more fun than with that Saiyan over at North Kaio's place."
Gohan - 1TheMikado wrote:Wait, was he saying that SSJ2 Vegeta engraged caused him to use more power than SSJ3 Goku which is supposed to have a multiplier of X4 on SSJ2????Beerus: "It's been a long time since I've used 10% or so of my full strength. Well, this was more fun than with that Saiyan over at North Kaio's place."
That would be a ridiculous power boost for just getting angry and no transformation.
I don't think that is an accurate summation of Gohan's battle power. I say this because even prior to his battle power increasing to 1,307 he already had a battle power of 710. He was also incredibly scared at the time his battle power read at 1. So it is likely that his normal battle power could have been high it's just his emotions make it fluctuate.apex_pretador wrote:Gohan - 1TheMikado wrote:Wait, was he saying that SSJ2 Vegeta engraged caused him to use more power than SSJ3 Goku which is supposed to have a multiplier of X4 on SSJ2????Beerus: "It's been a long time since I've used 10% or so of my full strength. Well, this was more fun than with that Saiyan over at North Kaio's place."
That would be a ridiculous power boost for just getting angry and no transformation.
Gohan (angry) - 1307
Gohan - nowhere near 1st form freeza
Gohan (angry) - strong enough to damage 2nd form freeza
Gohan (angry) - strong enough to damage 3rd form freeza
Wait, so now we have "enraged" multipliers??? I always assumed those one-offs were just considered narrative plot devices and only effective because they caught a more powerful character off guard in the same way Frieza caught SSB Goku off guard. To me this doesn't mean Frieza's actually power increased by a multiplier when attacking an off guard Goku, and I would assume the same for Frieza vs. Gohan, and Beerus vs. Vegeta. A boost, sure but not a multiplier and not enough to fully surpass an entire transformation.Hitiro wrote: Gohan also probably received a Zenkai after getting a kicking from Recoome. He may not be close to 1 million but I would imagine his battle power had increased a fair bit before the fight against 2nd form Freeza. If we were to say his battle power went up to 20,000-30,000 then the Anger boost would range between 50x to 33.33x He also got a Zenkai after fighting Freeza's second form before his next anger boost. But yeah, SSJ2 Enraged Vegeta should be significantly more powerful than SSJ3 Goku with that being said if we were to take these anger boosts as an example. Even if we were to believe that he was only SSJ when he enraged then it is still pretty huge. Because 33x SSJ is still 4x SSJ3
For one, it is plain stated in the movie. In Super Beerus also says he hadn't had that much fun in a while, more so than with the "saiyan on Kaio's planet". Enraged Vegeta > SSJ3 Goku is fact. Not much debate possible there.TheMikado wrote:Wait, so now we have "enraged" multipliers??? I always assumed those one-offs were just considered narrative plot devices and only effective because they caught a more powerful character off guard in the same way Freeza caught SSB Goku off guard. To me this doesn't mean Freeza's actually power increased by a multiplier when attacking an off guard Goku, and I would assume the same for Freeza vs. Gohan, and Beerus vs. Vegeta. A boost, sure but not a multiplier and not enough to fully surpass an entire transformation.Hitiro wrote: Gohan also probably received a Zenkai after getting a kicking from Recoome. He may not be close to 1 million but I would imagine his battle power had increased a fair bit before the fight against 2nd form Freeza. If we were to say his battle power went up to 20,000-30,000 then the Anger boost would range between 50x to 33.33x He also got a Zenkai after fighting Freeza's second form before his next anger boost. But yeah, SSJ2 Enraged Vegeta should be significantly more powerful than SSJ3 Goku with that being said if we were to take these anger boosts as an example. Even if we were to believe that he was only SSJ when he enraged then it is still pretty huge. Because 33x SSJ is still 4x SSJ3
If the Enraged boost is a multiplier and we know SSJ2 is only x2 SSJ1 then an enraged Vegeta over his own son's DEATH should have been more than enough to wipe out Cell if even if you give him a dramatically less power multiplier boost then you are proposing in Super. I'm not sure how people are arriving at Enraged Vegeta > More powerful than SSJ3 Goku????
How is stronger a fact??? Beerus says MORE FUN, NOT MORE POWER... There is big difference, and he could simply be talking about intensity. Using the Gohan vs Frieza and this to explain an enraged multiplier while completely ignoring the Cell Vs Enraged Vegeta failure is ridiculous when the multiplier to overtake Cell would have been MUCH MUCH smaller than either of those two scenarios and we are every using the same EXACT Character in a FAR more dramatic scenario and the multiplier/boost is NON existent.Draconic wrote:For one, it is plain stated in the movie. In Super Beerus also says he hadn't had that much fun in a while, more so than with the "saiyan on Kaio's planet". Enraged Vegeta > SSJ3 Goku is fact. Not much debate possible there.TheMikado wrote:Wait, so now we have "enraged" multipliers??? I always assumed those one-offs were just considered narrative plot devices and only effective because they caught a more powerful character off guard in the same way Freeza caught SSB Goku off guard. To me this doesn't mean Freeza's actually power increased by a multiplier when attacking an off guard Goku, and I would assume the same for Freeza vs. Gohan, and Beerus vs. Vegeta. A boost, sure but not a multiplier and not enough to fully surpass an entire transformation.Hitiro wrote: Gohan also probably received a Zenkai after getting a kicking from Recoome. He may not be close to 1 million but I would imagine his battle power had increased a fair bit before the fight against 2nd form Freeza. If we were to say his battle power went up to 20,000-30,000 then the Anger boost would range between 50x to 33.33x He also got a Zenkai after fighting Freeza's second form before his next anger boost. But yeah, SSJ2 Enraged Vegeta should be significantly more powerful than SSJ3 Goku with that being said if we were to take these anger boosts as an example. Even if we were to believe that he was only SSJ when he enraged then it is still pretty huge. Because 33x SSJ is still 4x SSJ3
If the Enraged boost is a multiplier and we know SSJ2 is only x2 SSJ1 then an enraged Vegeta over his own son's DEATH should have been more than enough to wipe out Cell if even if you give him a dramatically less power multiplier boost then you are proposing in Super. I'm not sure how people are arriving at Enraged Vegeta > More powerful than SSJ3 Goku????
Straight from Dragon Ball Super:TheMikado wrote:How is stronger a fact??? Beerus says MORE FUN, NOT MORE POWER... There is big difference, and he could simply be talking about intensity. Using the Gohan vs Freeza and this to explain an enraged multiplier while completely ignoring the Cell Vs Enraged Vegeta failure is ridiculous when the multiplier to overtake Cell would have been MUCH MUCH smaller than either of those two scenarios and we are every using the same EXACT Character in a FAR more dramatic scenario and the multiplier/boost is NON existent.
You cannot assume something because you want it to be, especially when the evidence is inconsistent based on past scenarios.
Anyone who can explain why the Cell vs. Vegeta multiplier didn't apply, but applies in Beerus vs Vegeta will get a cookie from me.
Doesn't get more clear cut than that.Beerus: "It's been a long time since I've used 10% or so of my full strength. Well, this was more fun than with that Saiyan over at North Kaio's place."
Not really explained, just twisted. Anywho, I don't feel obliged to reply to your whole post because it's mainly you and your typical "you must view this the way I view it just because" nonsense. I get it, I get it; the only person on this site who's allowed to nitpick guidebooks when it's convenient is you. Everyone else must follow them (and interpret them the same way you do) otherwise they're biased GT fanboys. Nothing new here.Hitiro wrote:Also the statements from the actual show have been explained before.
What is the point of this post? This thread is clearly for people who like to discuss battle powers. Just because you don't care for them, doesn't mean that everybody else shouldn't either.Kuririn Fan wrote:Battle powers are garbage, that's not the point of this fucking show.
Because some people like to make up stupid numbers and argue with other people's numbers and it can get ugly. It's not the point of the show.It was around for 2 arcs before disappearing for good.SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:What is the point of this post? This thread is clearly for people who like to discuss battle powers. Just because you don't care for them, doesn't mean that everybody else shouldn't either.Kuririn Fan wrote:Battle powers are garbage, that's not the point of this fucking show.
I'll never understand the logic behind hijacking a thread made for people who like to discuss a specific topic just to say "discussing this is stupid."
All I said was that they have been explained. You're free to ignore the explanations. I was merely saying that just because Goku says "This is the greatest Ki I've ever sensed." it doesn't have to mean that the show disagree's with the information the GT Anime Comic provides. If you don't believe this then that is up to you. No character has ever said that that they can sense their own Ki in the storyline. And numerous fights support that they can't accurately gauge their own power unless they see how another person fights. Hence why even though characters like Freeza are overwhelmingly strong people like Vegeta think they can still take them only to realise during the battle that the other person is still superior. Or like how every character was astonished by SSJ2 Gohan's Ki yet Cell still thought he had a chance. We even have Vegeta wondering if he had surpassed Gohan's Ki from back at the Cell Games after 7 years, despite accurately pinning Goku as stronger a few chapters later. And then finally ascertaining that he is superior by proxy. We also know they can determine their opponents strength via methods other than Ki sensing as they pretty much calculated Dabra's strength based purely on movement.SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:Not really explained, just twisted. Anywho, I don't feel obliged to reply to your whole post because it's mainly you and your typical "you must view this the way I view it just because" nonsense. I get it, I get it; the only person on this site who's allowed to nitpick guidebooks when it's convenient is you. Everyone else must follow them (and interpret them the same way you do) otherwise they're biased GT fanboys. Nothing new here.Hitiro wrote:Also the statements from the actual show have been explained before.
EDIT: Okay, perhaps "twisted" wasn't necessary. You have your explanations, which you're free to believe, but don't expect everyone else to believe them.
Any kind of discussion can get ugly depending on the people discussing and how they feel about the topic.Kuririn Fan wrote:Because some people like to make up stupid numbers and argue with other people's numbers and it can get ugly. It's not the point of the show.It was around for 2 arcs before disappearing for good.
If you could not tell by my previous post, I do not intend to have a long-winded debate, nor do I have the head for one. You're free to believe what you want, but I don't care for you shoving your interpretation down my throat. It's getting old now.Hitiro wrote:All I said was that they have been explained. You're free to ignore the explanations. I was merely saying that just because Goku says "This is the greatest Ki I've ever sensed." it doesn't have to mean that the show disagree's with the information the GT Anime Comic provides. If you don't believe this then that is up to you. No character has ever said that that they can sense their own Ki in the storyline. And numerous fights support that they can't accurately gauge their own power unless they see how another person fights. Hence why even though characters like Freeza are overwhelmingly strong people like Vegeta think they can still take them only to realise during the battle that the other person is still superior. Or like how every character was astonished by SSJ2 Gohan's Ki yet Cell still thought he had a chance. We even have Vegeta wondering if he had surpassed Gohan's Ki from back at the Cell Games after 7 years, despite accurately pinning Goku as stronger a few chapters later. And then finally ascertaining that he is superior by proxy. We also know they can determine their opponents strength via methods other than Ki sensing as they pretty much calculated Dabra's strength based purely on movement.
And also as I said with actual statement in question, from the current translation of Herms, the line is specifically talking about Vegetto's strength rather than the fusion technique's strength itself. Though you will have to check with Herms why it is worded that way.
I was merely explaining my point. Not shoving it down your throat. As you seemed to blatantly just say negative poisonous things like you did in your previous post. Even taking back the "twisted" part you still said it. You could have just taken the whole thing out entirely rather than just leave it in there. I am also not looking for a long-winded debate. I was also offering other people a different side of the coin because your interpretation isn't the only way to see things. Which is how you made it come across when you said the the statements in the show point to your opinion.SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:If you could not tell by my previous post, I do not intend to have a long-winded debate, nor do I have the head for one. You're free to believe what you want, but I don't care for you shoving your interpretation down my throat. It's getting old now.
Why is that problematic at all? This is a completely untrained Gohan who hasn't fought or done anything else that would remotely cause him to flare up his ki, who could only cause his strength to spike when his emotions were at their peak. Otherwise, his strength was no different than that of a normal child, so a farmer with a battle power of 5 is hardly unreasonable.Friezacooler wrote:Wtf that does it for me, Gohan had a power level of 1? while that farmer has a freaking PL of 5? that would clear up a lot of things up and confirming the fact a regular human shouldn't be able to have or be able to tap even in a pl of 1.
Well let's just say an unrestrained Gohan with a pl of 1 or Goku with a pl of 2, or farmer with a pl of 5 have a pl level that would still but their strength, speed and Durability way above regular human limit specially when comes to justifying Mr roshi's feat regarding the pl he caused the moon busting with. So even a restrained ki user should be above no chi user. So far what the given pl levels such as chichi and mr Satan etc have achieved with their feats would but them way above human limits so their is so no such thing as a normal human in the DBZ if they show feats similar to that extent. So a pl of 1 is to much for a mere human's body unless they find a way to implify their chi making them super human with pl of 1. Gohan, Goku are saiyan's so they are exception since they come from a race of Saiyan warriors and since the farmer has a pl higher then them just means he is specail and above human limits.Darkprince410 wrote:Why is that problematic at all? This is a completely untrained Gohan who hasn't fought or done anything else that would remotely cause him to flare up his ki, who could only cause his strength to spike when his emotions were at their peak. Otherwise, his strength was no different than that of a normal child, so a farmer with a battle power of 5 is hardly unreasonable.Friezacooler wrote:Wtf that does it for me, Gohan had a power level of 1? while that farmer has a freaking PL of 5? that would clear up a lot of things up and confirming the fact a regular human shouldn't be able to have or be able to tap even in a pl of 1.
Obviously the farmer is actually King Chappa. It's amazing what 5 years of retirement can do.Friezacooler wrote:Well let's just say an unrestrained Gohan with a pl of 1 or Goku with a pl of 2, or farmer with a pl of 5 have a pl level that would still but their strength, speed and Durability way above regular human limit specially when comes to justifying Mr roshi's feat regarding the pl he caused the moon busting with. So even a restrained ki user should be above no chi user. So far what the given pl levels such as chichi and mr Satan etc have achieved with their feats would but them way above human limits so their is so no such thing as a normal human in the DBZ if they show feats similar to that extent. So a pl of 1 is to much for a mere human's body unless they find a way to implify their chi making them super human with pl of 1. Gohan, Goku are saiyan's so they are exception since they come from a race of Saiyan warriors and since the farmer has a pl higher then them just means he is specail and above human limits.Darkprince410 wrote:Why is that problematic at all? This is a completely untrained Gohan who hasn't fought or done anything else that would remotely cause him to flare up his ki, who could only cause his strength to spike when his emotions were at their peak. Otherwise, his strength was no different than that of a normal child, so a farmer with a battle power of 5 is hardly unreasonable.Friezacooler wrote:Wtf that does it for me, Gohan had a power level of 1? while that farmer has a freaking PL of 5? that would clear up a lot of things up and confirming the fact a regular human shouldn't be able to have or be able to tap even in a pl of 1.
Cipher wrote:If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.
Malik_DBNA wrote:"Achievement Unlocked: Rule 34"Scarz wrote:Malik, stop. People are asking me for lewd art of possessed Bra (with Vegeta).
I'll be honest. None of that makes any sense whatsoever. Everyone has ki, but not everyone knows how to use it, so no matter what, an individual is going to have a ki level that can be read and measured. Literally nothing about the farmer having a battle power of 5, in comparison to Gohan's battle power of 1, indicates that he's anything special or above human limits, and I'm not seeing how you can come to the conclusion, given everything shown within the manga, that would suggest otherwise.Friezacooler wrote:
Well let's just say an unrestrained Gohan with a pl of 1 or Goku with a pl of 2, or farmer with a pl of 5 have a pl level that would still but their strength, speed and Durability way above regular human limit specially when comes to justifying Mr roshi's feat regarding the pl he caused the moon busting with. So even a restrained ki user should be above no chi user. So far what the given pl levels such as chichi and mr Satan etc have achieved with their feats would but them way above human limits so their is so no such thing as a normal human in the DBZ if they show feats similar to that extent. So a pl of 1 is to much for a mere human's body unless they find a way to implify their chi making them super human with pl of 1. Gohan, Goku are saiyan's so they are exception since they come from a race of Saiyan warriors and since the farmer has a pl higher then them just means he is specail and above human limits.
There's nothing saying that it didn't change though. From everything shown, there's nothing indicating that his battle power didn't actually raise up, and it'd make sense for it to have raised up (and not simply that the read out changed for it). His body's strength was exerting against the weighted clothing, suppressing his ki levels as a result, so when they were removed, his strength wasn't being exerted elsewhere, allowing his ki levels to spike upward as a result.Since Scouters seem to register environmental factors into a person's PL (Goku's PL didn't change but how much of it was registering did when he took off his weighted clothes), Maybe the farmer's 5 was due to him holding a rifle.
