Base Cabba stronger than ssj3 Gotenks?

[Kuririn Fan]

Slightly unrelated, the manga has less plotholes and less headcanons.

It's still a promo, meaning worthless.

[TheMikado]

Slightly unrelated, the manga has less plotholes and less headcanons.

It's still a promo, meaning worthless.

So many versions of the same story shouldn't exist, and especially simultaneously because then we have these arguments.
Where "your chosen media you happen to like, sucks for X number of reasons."

[Kuririn Fan]

Slightly unrelated, the manga has less plotholes and less headcanons.

It's still a promo, meaning worthless.

So many versions of the same story shouldn't exist, and especially simultaneously because then we have these arguments.
Where "your chosen media you happen to like, sucks for X number of reasons."

The 90s funi Z dub sucks, it's a well known fact, even the people that made it, admit it. If you're a dub only fan, watch Kai.

[TheMikado]

^ I don't understand what this means? I think the poster was referencing the fact that Super has a currently running manga as well that has less plot holes. All I said was that running them both of the same story creates situations where people are saying this sucks or that sucks of the media they don't like...

[Captain Strawberry]

Here's a theory. He consciously mixed some Gosh ki to his base to keep up with Gotenks.

[Saiyan007]

Here's a theory. He consciously mixed some Gosh ki to his base to keep up with Gotenks.

Founded by nothing.

Cabba is stronger than ssj3 Gotenks in his base just because.

There doesn't need to be am explanation on how he got so strong so it can fit fans power levels.

Not too mention this idiotic theory of goku and vegeta adding god ki in thier base forms(which again is stated nowhere)

Cabba is just ridiculously strong

[fadeddreams5]

The funny thing about Super is that I can definitely expect a scene with Gotenks beating Cabba in a sparring match. Or hell, Cabba fighting with Trunks or Goten and having trouble.

That's just the nature of the show...

I really miss how in DBZ some character would remark over how powerful another character was, confirming their strength. For example, when Majin Vegeta beats down Fat Buu and Piccolo implies he's stronger or as strong as SSJ2 Kid Gohan.

[Captain Strawberry]

Here's a theory. He consciously mixed some Gosh ki to his base to keep up with Gotenks.

Founded by nothing.

Cabba is stronger than ssj3 Gotenks in his base just because.

There doesn't need to be am explanation on how he got so strong so it can fit fans power levels.

Not too mention this idiotic theory of goku and vegeta adding god ki in thier base forms(which again is stated nowhere)

Cabba is just ridiculously strong

I do have a new theory which I did talk about a bit in this thread. The theory is depending on Cabba, next time we see Cabba than he will probably be a SSJB because of Vados. (Foreshadowing with Vegeta, the line Vegeta says to Cabba when he transforms to Blue)

I have a theory that is basically similar to Gohan's mystic or ultimate powers except it doesn't do without transformation power increase. I guess you could call it 'closing the gap'. When your base gets so strong, you start to close the gap between your actual physical peak strength/exterior ki output.

So example, when your base gets so strong, you no longer need to transform into SSJ3 (multiple additional ki output)and the multipliers start to vary or diminish so your base starts to catch up and you don't get a power increase.

Does that make sense? I guess it's sorta like halfway to mystic to simplify the explanation.

[Li'l Lemmy]

The simple, most plausible explanation is most likely the correct one. Cabba is "stronger" than SSj3 Gotenks because filler/inconsistency/whatever. I'm almost certain it's not meant to be taken seriously.

~Da Lemmy

[dragon boss z]

I love it when people say that Super doesn't make sense, as if power levels in Z made all the sense and Toriyama did the manga with calculator, carefully calculating all this bullshit, and not just for the money and to entertain young boys. Yeah, it makes sense, it's all about the power levels.

The plot holes and power inconsistencies are more blatant than ever.
Piccolo got god stomped by Tagoma and then first form Frieza. Base Vegeta one shot Tagoma and base Goku was about equal with final form Frieza. Both Vegeta and Goku had to go ssj to beat final form Frost. That means final form Frost should be above final form Frieza, but somehow Piccolo was able to avoid being one shotted and almost beat Frost.

It didn't make any sense in the first place for Togama to even surpass first form Frieza. If 4 months of training was all it took for some scrub to surpass Frieza, and evil dictator that kills people, someone would of done it, not to mention surpassing even his final form by so much they could stomp Piccolo who is even stronger than full power Frieza.
It didn't make any sense for base Cabba to be so strong either. In the Super manga Goku says if Frost trains he could get strong like Frieza did, which implies he is closer to Namek Frieza, than super Frieza, which makes no sense since logically he should be even stronger than super Frieza excluding Frieza's golden form.

I would like for you to show me a blatant power contradiction in the original dragon ball manga.

[Kuririn Fan]

New enemies are always stronger than previous ones. Story isnt about power levels, Toriyama certainly isnt writing it with the calculator by his side, hes writing it to entertain us.

[TheMikado]

Slightly unrelated, the manga has less plotholes and less headcanons.

It's still a promo, meaning worthless.

So many versions of the same story shouldn't exist, and especially simultaneously because then we have these arguments.
Where "your chosen media you happen to like, sucks for X number of reasons."

I'm quoting myself Again because my statement is now more relevant than ever.

[Kishido]

Now forgete about Cabba and the silly explanations about him being from U6 with different power scaling.

Look the preview of next episode with Future Trunks.

SSJ Future Trunks > SSJ3 Gotenks

[RandomGuy96]

I just reviewed the fight and found that, when Vegeta got serious, he could literally stand there and let Cabba rain down dozens of ki blasts on him with a smile on his face without even being bothered. Then Cabba performs a winded up running punch to his face, and he doesn't so much as flinch. It's quite obvious that base Vegeta is a hell of a lot stronger than base Cabba, and was just screwing around the whole time. In that case Cabba's real power level can be whatever you want it to be.

[Akira]

Makes sense to me, Cabba was on par with Vegeta's normal ki base. He is not on par with Goku or Vegeta when using godly ki in base (which is more in a frame of reference with Ultimate Gohan in a sense. Looks the same as normal base, but is infinitely stronger.)

Not to mention that one form isn't a "set power". Go back to DB, Goku mentions his "Tournament best" (Suppressed strength) vs his "Battle best" (Full power). Use the scouter ratings from the fight with Vegeta and Nappa. Suppressed Goku 5000, full power Goku 8000, or versus the Ginyu Force 5000 suppressed up to 90,000 full power. Goku always holds back to gauge his enemies first, Vegeta to a lesser extent.

We no longer have numbers, but they aren't doing anything different than before. Where is the confusion? The Universe 6 guys, aside from Hit, weren't anything super special. Frost would be comparable to Namek era Freeza, maybe slightly weaker, maybe slightly stronger, but in that range. Piccolo (after fusing with Kami was already beyond the early incarnations of Super Saiyan 1 during the first part of the Cell Saga. Storyline wise, we're close to a decade since then, so even if his gains from training were minimal, it is no surprise that he'd be able to keep up with Frost. So again, where does "Super not make sense?"

Goku and Vegeta used normal ki, and normal Super Saiyan to make sport of the tournament, and save their Godly ki "Ultimate-like" base and accompanying Super Saiyan Blue forms in reserve for the later rounds. Seems like standard Dragonball fare to me. I was able to follow it without any confusion.

[TheMikado]

Makes sense to me, Cabba was on par with Vegeta's normal ki base. He is not on par with Goku or Vegeta when using godly ki in base (which is more in a frame of reference with Ultimate Gohan in a sense. Looks the same as normal base, but is infinitely stronger.)

Not to mention that one form isn't a "set power". Go back to DB, Goku mentions his "Tournament best" (Suppressed strength) vs his "Battle best" (Full power). Use the scouter ratings from the fight with Vegeta and Nappa. Suppressed Goku 5000, full power Goku 8000, or versus the Ginyu Force 5000 suppressed up to 90,000 full power. Goku always holds back to gauge his enemies first, Vegeta to a lesser extent.

We no longer have numbers, but they aren't doing anything different than before. Where is the confusion? The Universe 6 guys, aside from Hit, weren't anything super special. Frost would be comparable to Namek era Freeza, maybe slightly weaker, maybe slightly stronger, but in that range. Piccolo (after fusing with Kami was already beyond the early incarnations of Super Saiyan 1 during the first part of the Cell Saga. Storyline wise, we're close to a decade since then, so even if his gains from training were minimal, it is no surprise that he'd be able to keep up with Frost. So again, where does "Super not make sense?"

Goku and Vegeta used normal ki, and normal Super Saiyan to make sport of the tournament, and save their Godly ki "Ultimate-like" base and accompanying Super Saiyan Blue forms in reserve for the later rounds. Seems like standard Dragonball fare to me. I was able to follow it without any confusion.

Right except there is a large contingent of people who do not believe a base with God ki actually exists at all. Basically Goku has one one base form and not two different ones with different ki and strength.

[Akira]

Either way, he can raise or lower his power quite a bit in his base form. That's almost always been the case for him since very early in the series. If we suddenly forget how he likes to toy with opponents, and that Goku can (not even talking about Kaioken mind you) ramp up his power to max in an instant, and back down to a lower controlled level, then yeah I guess it could be confusing. Weither the God ki becomes part of the power-up, or is an "ultimate Gohan-ish" type separate base level, or is something akin to a combination of the two, the point is that his base isn't just one set level of power, and never has been. He seems to adjust and use different levels of it depending on who he's fighting.

[dragon boss z]

Makes sense to me, Cabba was on par with Vegeta's normal ki base. He is not on par with Goku or Vegeta when using godly ki in base (which is more in a frame of reference with Ultimate Gohan in a sense. Looks the same as normal base, but is infinitely stronger.)

Not to mention that one form isn't a "set power". Go back to DB, Goku mentions his "Tournament best" (Suppressed strength) vs his "Battle best" (Full power). Use the scouter ratings from the fight with Vegeta and Nappa. Suppressed Goku 5000, full power Goku 8000, or versus the Ginyu Force 5000 suppressed up to 90,000 full power. Goku always holds back to gauge his enemies first, Vegeta to a lesser extent.

We no longer have numbers, but they aren't doing anything different than before. Where is the confusion? The Universe 6 guys, aside from Hit, weren't anything super special. Frost would be comparable to Namek era Freeza, maybe slightly weaker, maybe slightly stronger, but in that range. Piccolo (after fusing with Kami was already beyond the early incarnations of Super Saiyan 1 during the first part of the Cell Saga. Storyline wise, we're close to a decade since then, so even if his gains from training were minimal, it is no surprise that he'd be able to keep up with Frost. So again, where does "Super not make sense?"

Goku and Vegeta used normal ki, and normal Super Saiyan to make sport of the tournament, and save their Godly ki "Ultimate-like" base and accompanying Super Saiyan Blue forms in reserve for the later rounds. Seems like standard Dragonball fare to me. I was able to follow it without any confusion.

Right except there is a large contingent of people who do not believe a base with God ki actually exists at all. Basically Goku has one one base form and not two different ones with different ki and strength.

I'm pretty sure saiyan beyond god is an official form though.

[Lord Beerus]

Makes sense to me, Cabba was on par with Vegeta's normal ki base. He is not on par with Goku or Vegeta when using godly ki in base (which is more in a frame of reference with Ultimate Gohan in a sense. Looks the same as normal base, but is infinitely stronger.)

Not to mention that one form isn't a "set power". Go back to DB, Goku mentions his "Tournament best" (Suppressed strength) vs his "Battle best" (Full power). Use the scouter ratings from the fight with Vegeta and Nappa. Suppressed Goku 5000, full power Goku 8000, or versus the Ginyu Force 5000 suppressed up to 90,000 full power. Goku always holds back to gauge his enemies first, Vegeta to a lesser extent.

We no longer have numbers, but they aren't doing anything different than before. Where is the confusion? The Universe 6 guys, aside from Hit, weren't anything super special. Frost would be comparable to Namek era Freeza, maybe slightly weaker, maybe slightly stronger, but in that range. Piccolo (after fusing with Kami was already beyond the early incarnations of Super Saiyan 1 during the first part of the Cell Saga. Storyline wise, we're close to a decade since then, so even if his gains from training were minimal, it is no surprise that he'd be able to keep up with Frost. So again, where does "Super not make sense?"

Goku and Vegeta used normal ki, and normal Super Saiyan to make sport of the tournament, and save their Godly ki "Ultimate-like" base and accompanying Super Saiyan Blue forms in reserve for the later rounds. Seems like standard Dragonball fare to me. I was able to follow it without any confusion.

Right except there is a large contingent of people who do not believe a base with God ki actually exists at all. Basically Goku has one one base form and not two different ones with different ki and strength.

I'm pretty sure saiyan beyond god is an official form though.

No, it's not.

[dragon boss z]

I'm pretty sure saiyan beyond god is an official form though.

No, it's not.

Supposedly saiyan beyond god has been mentioned in official Japanese media.