Understanding Kaioshin's connection to Beerus (Super spoilers)

[fadeddreams5]

So the latest episode of Super revealed that, like Kami and Piccolo beforehand, Kaioshin and Beerus share the same life force. In other words, if one dies, the other does to. This has given Beerus a clear weakness, but... how does this make any sense at all?

For one, Beerus was the one who trapped Old Kai in the Z Sword, so his existence should predate that of East Kaioshin. Secondly, East Kaioshin was the youngest and most inexperienced of several other Kaioshin who ruled over different quadrants of the universe, so why is Beerus exclusively connected to this guy, who came into existence after him? The rest are dead, including Old Kai, who gave his life away, so clearly Beerus' life can't be intertwined with all of them. Unless there are other gods of destruction in universe 7 and/or Beerus/Omni-King/whomever can pick and choose who Beerus shares a life force with, this is nonsensical... or is it? Anybody want to piece everything together? Did Buu inadvertently kill multiple gods of destruction? Also, whatever happened to the grand supreme kais? Universe 6 and 10 seemingly don't have one. Did they forget?

[Kaboom]

It's probably an ordained thing where the current, active Kaioshin are the ones tied to the life of the God of Destruction, and only when all 3/4/whatever of them are killed does the God of Destruction die. As of now, the only official Kaioshin is East Kaioshin and nobody else. The elder Kaioshin is now back from the Z-Sword and working sort of as a mentor to his younger counterpart, but he's not actually the current Kaioshin.

[fadeddreams5]

But there were 5 active kaioshin. Is Beerus' life force instantly swapped with another when one of the kaioshin dies? So basically, you'd have to kill every kaioshin for him to cease to exist? O.o

[Kaboom]

So basically, you'd have to kill every kaioshin for him to cease to exist? O.o

Yeah, that's kind of what I'm thinking. Not that he's tied to one Kaioshin and if that one dies then another takes over, but that all 3/4/5 of them are collectively linked to him. He's not affected until all of them die. Which is why he's perfectly fine in the main timeline when Kaioshin is the only one still alive after Boo's ancient rampage, but kicked the bucket as soon as Future Kaioshin died.

[LightBing]

I agree with Kaboom.
As for the reason for this connection, balance I guess. You can't have too much destruction neither too much creation, it works as a fail-safe device.

Currently, Hakaishins are nominated and Kaioshins should be born from the tree but it seems that has been retconned. There might be a possibility that it would be hard and long to replace the Gods. Better safe than sorry. It's not like the Omni-King respects them enough to care about their lives, he's like the Big Boss of a major corporation.

[Berserker1921]

So if buu killed all the kaioshin. Then Beerus dies. I know this is a new plot. But Whis def should have dealt with buu asap. Or else his master would have died while he slept.

[Tectorman]

So basically, you'd have to kill every kaioshin for him to cease to exist? O.o

Yeah, that's kind of what I'm thinking. Not that he's tied to one Kaioshin and if that one dies then another takes over, but that all 3/4/5 of them are collectively linked to him. He's not affected until all of them die. Which is why he's perfectly fine in the main timeline when Kaioshin is the only one still alive after Boo's ancient rampage, but kicked the bucket as soon as Future Kaioshin died.

I agree with this. It is entirely too contrived to say that Beerus's life force just ever-so-coincidentally happened to be tied to the one Supreme Kai that lucked out and survived Kid Buu all those years ago. Saying that his "destructive essence" is instead tied to the "creative essence" of Universe 7, independent of how many Supreme Kais happen to be alive to embody it, strikes me as more coherent.

As for how close Beerus came to dying due to nearly all the Supreme Kais getting wiped out at once, I have to wonder if Beerus's life force isn 't also tied to the regular Kais. They don't exist on the Supreme Kai's level, but they are still forces of creation in the universe.

[Cipher]

It's probably an ordained thing where the current, active Kaioshin are the ones tied to the life of the God of Destruction, and only when all 3/4/whatever of them are killed does the God of Destruction die. As of now, the only official Kaioshin is East Kaioshin and nobody else. The elder Kaioshin is now back from the Z-Sword and working sort of as a mentor to his younger counterpart, but he's not actually the current Kaioshin.

Has anything really referenced what the Old Kaioshin's status is?

Regardless, I think this is the right take. Some has speculated that Beerus could have sealed Old Kaioshin as a safeguard, but I don't think that makes a ton of sense if this mechanism is intended for cosmic balance. If all the active Kaioshin are gone, the God of Destruction is gone too.

While I do think this detail introduces some complications and I could have gone without it, it makes sense as a cosmic mechanism and prevents an overzealous God of Destruction from wiping out his/her counterparts in the Kaioshin (kind of a check against the fact that the God of Destruction is stronger than the Kaioshin -- neither can stop one another; both go about their business of catastrophe and creation).

[dragonballer]

am i the only one who thinks bibidi and babidi's plan makes sense now?

both buu and beerus are known by legends. why would bibidi think he could dominate the universe by just killing the kaioshins? now we know that he could kill beerus too doing that.

[hellobooboo14]

Why is there imbalance between destruction and creation when God of Destruction relies on creation to live [in the sense that if Kaioshins dies so does Beerus]. The strongest creation Kaioshin is South Kaioshin, where he rivals Kid Buu in power. Beerus is FAR, FAR above Ssj3 level, and the fact that someone like Kid Buu almost killed the Kaioshins which means Beerus dies too. Wouldn't Beerus somehow invest in protecting the Kaioshins against stronger threats?

[MaxZ]

Why is there imbalance between destruction and creation when God of Destruction relies on creation to live [in the sense that if Kaioshins dies so does Beerus]. The strongest creation Kaioshin is South Kaioshin, where he rivals Kid Buu in power. Beerus is FAR, FAR above Ssj3 level, and the fact that someone like Kid Buu almost killed the Kaioshins which means Beerus dies too. Wouldn't Beerus somehow invest in protecting the Kaioshins against stronger threats?

he probably would not believe they'd ever be in any danger in their own realm.

[Cipher]

^Indeed. Bibidi and Boo being able to enter the Kaioshin realm is a massive abnormality. It's feasible Boo's attack on the Kaioshin could have happened quickly enough for Beerus to not know or intervene, with the surviving East Kaioshin unable to contact him.

I guess I also agree that Bibidi's plans in light Beerus being inserted into the series make a bit more sense now. Had he succeeded in killing every Kaioshin, all the high gods, including Beerus, would be dead.

Though it was never Bibidi's intent to destroy the universe in the first place -- only to subjugate it. Per Freeza, neither the Kaioshin nor Beerus care much about cosmic tyranny; that's just mortals doing what they do. Only widespread destruction raises an eyebrow.

[Berserker1921]

^Indeed. Bibidi and Boo being able to enter the Kaioshin realm is a massive abnormality. It's feasible Boo's attack on the Kaioshin could have happened quickly enough for Beerus to not know or intervene, with the surviving East Kaioshin unable to contact him.

I guess I also agree that Bibidi's plans in light Beerus being inserted into the series make a bit more sense now. Had he succeeded in killing every Kaioshin, all the high gods, including Beerus, would be dead.

Though it was never Bibidi's intent to destroy the universe in the first place -- only to subjugate it. Per Freeza, neither the Kaioshin nor Beerus care much about cosmic tyranny; that's just mortals doing what they do. Only widespread destruction raises an eyebrow.

Damn bibidi was a genius. He had it all planned. He knew buu was at least low tier ssj3 level, with absorbing abilities, high regen, and almost unlimited stamina. He was probably aiming for them because he knew eventually beerus would wake up and stop him. So taking out the kaioshin. Beerus dies. Whis doesn't give a fuck and who knows how long would it be until a new golden apple fell from the tree or when a new God of Destuction was trained and picked. Bibidi I think is prob one of the best villains of the series.

[Draconic]

Why is there imbalance between destruction and creation when God of Destruction relies on creation to live [in the sense that if Kaioshins dies so does Beerus]. The strongest creation Kaioshin is South Kaioshin, where he rivals Kid Buu in power. Beerus is FAR, FAR above Ssj3 level, and the fact that someone like Kid Buu almost killed the Kaioshins which means Beerus dies too. Wouldn't Beerus somehow invest in protecting the Kaioshins against stronger threats?

Before the Majin Buu fiasco, outside of Beerus and Whis, the South Kaioshin has probably been the strongest person in Universe 7. Seeing as how Buu as lived since the beginning of the universe but didn't ever cause trouble, I guess a former King of the Demon Realm would be the greatest threat. Assuming that was Dabura or someone on Dabura's level, South Kaioshin would have still wiped the floor with the guy. The Kaioshin really didn't need anyone's protection. Even in the Majin Buu saga, Kaioshin is only surpassed when the Saiyans turn SSJ2, but there hardly has been any Super Saiyans at all across history, so having an SSJ3 level guy with them would have been all they needed. The fact that Bibidi managed to subjugate Buu and use him as a gun pointed at the Kaioshin Realm is something that never happened before and will never happen again. Hell, it was fortunate for Bibidi that the Kaioshin didn't all gang up on Buu, cause if South Kaioshin by himself gave him trouble, I think he would have gotten overwhelmed after all.

[Polyphase Avatron]

I wrote a mini-rant on this in the episode thread. Should I copy & paste it here?

[Krillin1994]

But Beerus should have died when east Kaioshin fused with Kibito.

[TheMikado]

But Beerus should have died when east Kaioshin fused with Kibito.

Actually I was just thinking about this. The fusion may actually preserve their lives. In fact I'm thinking of a situation Kaioshin is close to death from Black in and effort to kill Beerus and kibito decided to fuse forever with Kaioshin to save his life and Beerus and the universe. Essentially given up himself as Kaioshins remain dominant.

[Krillin1994]

But Beerus should have died when east Kaioshin fused with Kibito.

Actually I was just thinking about this. The fusion may actually preserve their lives. In fact I'm thinking of a situation Kaioshin is close to death from Black in and effort to kill Beerus and kibito decided to fuse forever with Kaioshin to save his life and Beerus and the universe. Essentially given up himself as Kaioshins remain dominant.

I was thinking about this too and the fusion may not affect the link actually.

Piccolo fused with Nail to create a new being and that didn't affect Kami.

So Kaioshin fusing with Kibito probably wouldn't affect the link.

[Cetra]

Piccolo fused with Nail to create a new being and that didn't affect Kami.

Well, for once, everytime Piccolo fuses the consciousness of Piccolo is retained. That does not change the petrification of the Dragon Balls when Kami reunited though. So I can see the point some people are trying to make.

Of course it is possible that East Kaioushin's consciousness was also retained. He still treated himself like a Kaioushin and even talked about past stuff like it happened to him and not his fusion component. But that could just be narration. Still, it is possible.

[Krillin1994]

Yeah Kibito barely exists in Kibitokai