Why Were The Z Senshi So Useless Against Nappa?

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I don't agree with that. Kikoho did hardly any damage. Piccolo was not aware of just how strong Nappa was at the time, Piccolo is just starting to see the depths of Nappa's power. Kikoho clearly would have done some insane damage to Piccolo, if not killed him.

2,800 is treated like a real serious threat, I think it's definitely several levels higher than Kikoho.

Nappa is also instantly recovering from Goku's enraged blows and takes little damage from that. Goku even says he's a tough one.

Nobody treats Masenko as a serious threat. When Vegeta yells it's 2,800, Nappa is like "2,800 eh?" And deflects it.

[tasuxeda]

The way I see it experience likely played a large part of it Nappa is in his 50's and likely spend the majority of his live in various battlefields fighting and by comparison the Z Senshi are younger and mostly don't have real combat experience

[GreatSaiyaman123]

The way I see it experience likely played a large part of it Nappa is in his 50's and likely spend the majority of his live in various battlefields fighting and by comparison the Z Senshi are younger and mostly don't have real combat experience

It seemed more like just a brute strength advantage for me. He goes on a rampage beating up everyone and tanking every blast. On skill he is quite outmatched, considering how Kuririn tangos with Nappa and almost kills him.

[coola]

I was wondering, we see Nappa power up before fight with Z Warriors, and later during fight with Goku, maybe 4.000 isn't his full power? On the other hand, that contradicts what Vegeta and later Freeza soldiers say:
Vegeta "They (Earthlings) have this strange ability that allow then to control PL at will"
Ginyu Force "Changing PL without transformation is very rare, Vegeta-chan found interesting allies"
Vegeta himself learnt how to control PL after battle on Earth.

[KBABZ]

I was wondering, we see Nappa power up before fight with Z Warriors, and later during fight with Goku, maybe 4.000 isn't his full power? On the other hand, that contradicts what Vegeta and later Freeza soldiers say:
Vegeta "They (Earthlings) have this strange ability that allow then to control PL at will"
Ginyu Force "Changing PL without transformation is very rare, Vegeta-chan found interesting allies"
Vegeta himself learnt how to control PL after battle on Earth.

As I understand it (from the Funi Kai dub) is that they're referring specifically to the ability to suppress one's battle power below it's normal "resting" level. If you were to take it a step further, charging up one's ki is still dependent on what its base power was, whereas a transformation like Zarbon's or Super Saiyan (or Frieza's suppressive transformations) affects the base battle power in a less temporary way.

[FoolsGil]

Another reason: Master Roshi wasn't there.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I was wondering, we see Nappa power up before fight with Z Warriors, and later during fight with Goku, maybe 4.000 isn't his full power? On the other hand, that contradicts what Vegeta and later Freeza soldiers say:
Vegeta "They (Earthlings) have this strange ability that allow then to control PL at will"
Ginyu Force "Changing PL without transformation is very rare, Vegeta-chan found interesting allies"
Vegeta himself learnt how to control PL after battle on Earth.

They were altering their Ki output, but not their power levels. Even though Vegeta and Nappa have done all those power ups, someone with a scouter would still see their powers as 8,000 and 18,000.

[ABED]

Because their minds have been dulled to accommodate the daunting impressionability that needs to be conveyed by these two antagonists. No Mafuba, no Kienzan, no "genius" creativity with the magic -- all has to pan out in the correct manner to establish how helpless everyone is without Goku around to muscle his way through the opposition. The characters don't even remember all of the techniques they have like arm extension for Piccolo which, you know, would have really come in handy when Gohan was about to get killed by Nappa.

They try the Kienzan and it's doubtful the mafuba would've worked. It's not plot, it's well within character that at least Vegeta wouldn't have lost to either attack. You think the arm extention would've helped him get there faster?

They were useless because Nappa was much stronger than any of them. It's that simple.

[Lionel]

I'm sure it is. Characters with multivarious avenues of approach with a moderately varied repertoire of abilities and several bodies to tactically position and utilise for the purposes of leveraging positional and offensive advantages against the enemy yet the most they can do is a three-step blindside and going with a straightforward pitch while hoping that the opponent obliges the gesture.

You'll forgive me if I don't think what happened in that fight was the best performance that could have been mustered.

[ABED]

You can't compare it to real life in that manner. In DB world, at some point it doesn't matter what the tactics are, some characters are too powerful.

[Yuli Ban]

You can't compare it to real life in that manner. In DB world, at some point it doesn't matter what the tactics are, some characters are too powerful.

Not exactly true, as long as you know what you're doing and the difference isn't so great that you are basically a cricket fighting a mountain.
Let's imagine that Tenshinhan blinds Nappa with the Taiyōken and Krillin comes in with a Kienzan. There you go— two halves of a dead space monkey. We also don't ever see too many "sensitive attacks" anymore. It's very hard to build durability in your groin or neck, for example. Pump some thunderous punches to Nappa's family jewels and I bet you he won't be able to even stand after a while.
What's more, stamina is still a big deal in the world of Dragon Ball (sorta). I've long since hypothesized that there must be a reversed form of Kaiōken, which I've named Kyōka-tai (Reinforced Body) where you could theoretically be able to increase your ki output to absorb blows from opponents much stronger than yourself. If you are able to time it right and not overexert yourself, you could wear out your opponent and then counterattack.

In Nappa's case though, it really is a situation where the Zetto Senshi are up against someone who is more powerful and more experienced than all of them combined. Saiyans are a warrior race by nature and have much more durable bodies, essentially meaning that if a Saiyan and a Human had the same power level, the Saiyan is still technically more capable. Not to mention that Nappa was supposedly in his 50s and lived a life of warfare and combat throughout it all.
Relating it to something I read a while back, remember when AlphaGo defeated Lee Sedol back in 2016? And how AlphaZero was described as playing "chess from another dimension"? The senshi are a bunch of Lee Sedols and Ke Jies, but in terms of martial arts and ki mastery. The Saiyans were like AlphaZeroes from 2037. It's martial arts vs. entities who are literally designed for that purpose and occupy a strata of skill and strength that you will never know without literal help from god or technology.

[ABED]

You can't compare it to real life in that manner. In DB world, at some point it doesn't matter what the tactics are, some characters are too powerful.

Not exactly true, as long as you know what you're doing and the difference isn't so great that you are basically a cricket fighting a mountain.
Let's imagine that Tenshinhan blinds Nappa with the Taiyōken and Krillin comes in with a Kienzan. There you go— two halves of a dead space monkey. We also don't ever see too many "sensitive attacks" anymore. It's very hard to build durability in your groin or neck, for example. Pump some thunderous punches to Nappa's family jewels and I bet you he won't be able to even stand after a while.
What's more, stamina is still a big deal in the world of Dragon Ball (sorta). I've long since hypothesized that there must be a reversed form of Kaiōken, which I've named Kyōka-tai (Reinforced Body) where you could theoretically be able to increase your ki output to absorb blows from opponents much stronger than yourself. If you are able to time it right and not overexert yourself, you could wear out your opponent and then counterattack.

In Nappa's case though, it really is a situation where the Zetto Senshi are up against someone who is more powerful and more experienced than all of them combined. Saiyans are a warrior race by nature and have much more durable bodies, essentially meaning that if a Saiyan and a Human had the same power level, the Saiyan is still technically more capable. Not to mention that Nappa was supposedly in his 50s and lived a life of warfare and combat throughout it all.
Relating it to something I read a while back, remember when AlphaGo defeated Lee Sedol back in 2016? And how AlphaZero was described as playing "chess from another dimension"? The senshi are a bunch of Lee Sedols and Ke Jies, but in terms of martial arts and ki mastery. The Saiyans were like AlphaZeroes from 2037. It's martial arts vs. entities who are literally designed for that purpose and occupy a strata of skill and strength that you will never know without literal help from god or technology.

Hence why I wrote "at some point".