Why Can't Goten & Trunks Use SSJ3 Without Being Gotenks?

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Why Can't Goten & Trunks Use SSJ3 Without Being Gotenks?

Post by theherodjl » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:59 pm

Throughout the story, in either Toriyama's works or in other media, I cannot recall Goten or Trunks using SSJ3 without fusing into Gotenks: why is that, and why are they never seen even using SSJ2 & the SSJ Grade forms either? They're prodigious, in possession of high potential, and certainly have the S-Cells for it so what exactly gives? Have they simply given up on trying to become stronger as individuals? Are their young bodies/minds incapable of holding a superior level of SSJ? Does their status as being tailless Saiyans have anything to do with it? What's the problem here?
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Re: Why Can't Goten & Trunks Use SSJ3 Without Being Gotenks?

Post by lancerman » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:07 pm

theherodjl wrote:Throughout the story, in either Toriyama's works or in other media, I cannot recall Goten or Trunks using SSJ3 without fusing into Gotenks: why is that, and why are they never seen even using SSJ2 & the SSJ Grade forms either? They're prodigious, in possession of high potential, and certainly have the S-Cells for it so what exactly gives? Have they simply given up on trying to become stronger as individuals? Are their young bodies/minds incapable of holding a superior level of SSJ? Does their status as being tailless Saiyans have anything to do with it? What's the problem here?
SSJ3 was designed to be an imperfect an unattainable form. In story, Goku is the only unfused character who can use it. He could only use it efficiently after 7 years of training with a dead body that was more durable and could withstand the intense energy drain. When Goku was alive, he could not use the form as effectively. It's a form Vegeta basically rights off.

It takes the original Super Saiyan concept to an unsustainable extreme. To transform to get stronger the Saiyans needed to start exercising more control and using god ki.

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Re: Why Can't Goten & Trunks Use SSJ3 Without Being Gotenks?

Post by Steven Bloodriver » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:17 pm

theherodjl wrote:Throughout the story, in either Toriyama's works or in other media, I cannot recall Goten or Trunks using SSJ3 without fusing into Gotenks: why is that, and why are they never seen even using SSJ2 & the SSJ Grade forms either? They're prodigious, in possession of high potential, and certainly have the S-Cells for it so what exactly gives? Have they simply given up on trying to become stronger as individuals? Are their young bodies/minds incapable of holding a superior level of SSJ? Does their status as being tailless Saiyans have anything to do with it? What's the problem here?
It is simply because of the fact Trunks is as prideful and arrogant as Vegeta, Goten is as much as a doormat as Gohan, and Gotenks is an even more immature idiot than Vegeta himself, not to mention the fact he never wants to take things seriously. Making the three such disappointments, that their very own fathers would not want to have to go through the trouble of disciplining them to become the next Z Fighters.

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Re: Why Can't Goten & Trunks Use SSJ3 Without Being Gotenks?

Post by shadowfox87 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:05 am

theherodjl wrote:Throughout the story, in either Toriyama's works or in other media, I cannot recall Goten or Trunks using SSJ3 without fusing into Gotenks: why is that, and why are they never seen even using SSJ2 & the SSJ Grade forms either? They're prodigious, in possession of high potential, and certainly have the S-Cells for it so what exactly gives? Have they simply given up on trying to become stronger as individuals? Are their young bodies/minds incapable of holding a superior level of SSJ? Does their status as being tailless Saiyans have anything to do with it? What's the problem here?
Half-saiyans have more potential than pure saiyans but they lack the desire to fight and train. They don't have the "lust" for fighting. If Goten and Trunks continually trained, they would have SSJ2 and SSJ3 independently but they don't. Simply inheriting S-cells from their parents only allows them to turn into a SSJ at a young age easier. In terms of the Super Saiyan grades, it's assumed they learned to control their stamina and hence are already using grade 4. Grade 2 and 3 are not even needed. Grade 4 is just a mastery of stamina of Grade 1.

I will quote what is already stated in the Daizenshuu 4 regarding the tailless generation of Saiyans:
The tailless second generation are super ultra child prodigies.
Saiyan genes have an extraordinarily good compatibility with Earthling blood. Because of this, when the two races are mixed together children with formidable power are born. Particularly, those Halflings born without tails hide an exceptional battle power. There are many things that they naturally master from a young age, such as the ordinarily arduous transformation into a Super Saiyan. In spite of having such an outstanding battle sense, they do not have a fondness for battle like a pure Saiyan. Instead, it seems that the violent temperament of the Saiyan has been relaxed through their Earthling blood.
DBS Manga vs Anime Differences: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=42062
Timelines Explanation: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=42105
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Re: Why Can't Goten & Trunks Use SSJ3 Without Being Gotenks?

Post by Hulk10 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:30 pm

Its because they aren't yet strong enough and they don't train as hard as their fathers do.
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Re: Why Can't Goten & Trunks Use SSJ3 Without Being Gotenks?

Post by Ssjcell » Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:44 pm

I would venture to say that they never felt the need because when backed into a corner they could just fuse to become Gotenks and turn ssj3 . If they trained in the time chamber for like a year they could learn to become ssj3 and it was never stated they couldn't turn ssj3 on their own people just assume they can't . They probs can't I'm just Saiyan.

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Re: Why Can't Goten & Trunks Use SSJ3 Without Being Gotenks?

Post by Eternal Super Saiyan » Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:35 pm

I can imagine Future Trunks achieving SSJ3. But as these characters are in the current story, their training isn't taken seriously enough and as said above their fusion trump card will probably replace the need for that entire transformation as individuals..

It's understandable why Vegeta no longer has a need for it. He understood from seeing Goku fighting Buu that it has apparent flaws much like Kaioken. Plus now he's got Blue, many times stronger than SSJ3.
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Re: Why Can't Goten & Trunks Use SSJ3 Without Being Gotenks?

Post by ankokudaishogun » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:41 pm

theherodjl wrote:why is that, and why are they never seen even using SSJ2 & the SSJ Grade forms either?
They are too childish to train seriously enough for SS2, no way in hell their body can sustain SS3 unfused

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Re: Why Can't Goten & Trunks Use SSJ3 Without Being Gotenks?

Post by p-hyvo » Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:57 am

Theorically, in gt both goten and trunks have ssj2, so the fact that their fusion can go ssj3 isn't all that incredible imo
I feel like if i Say here where do i get numerically with dbgt/dbs Power levels, someone will get a stroke.
Better to not talk about dragon ball heroes ones, i swear
Lol

Also i don't wanna be rude, even if i know i can seem It sometimes. I'm Just too harsh in some occasions, that's It. I can't control that. Is not that i want to be and asshole or mean to you, i Simply don't know how to Say what i think i other ways .Just clarifying

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Re: Why Can't Goten & Trunks Use SSJ3 Without Being Gotenks?

Post by ankokudaishogun » Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:07 pm

p-hyvo wrote:Theorically, in gt both goten and trunks have ssj2
I don't remember them using SS2, nor them being able to use it being stated anywhere.

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Re: Why Can't Goten & Trunks Use SSJ3 Without Being Gotenks?

Post by szopman » Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:27 pm

Future Trunks mastered SSJ2 on his own, reaching the power level superior to SSJ3.
Trunks Xeno reached SSJ3 in the SDBH manga.

So, technically, Trunks is able to reach that kind of power.

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Re: Why Can't Goten & Trunks Use SSJ3 Without Being Gotenks?

Post by p-hyvo » Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:04 pm

ankokudaishogun wrote:
p-hyvo wrote:Theorically, in gt both goten and trunks have ssj2
I don't remember them using SS2, nor them being able to use it being stated anywhere.
It should be stated in gt perfect files, I don't remember. In gt, ssj = ssj2 in appearance, so it isn't recognizable
I feel like if i Say here where do i get numerically with dbgt/dbs Power levels, someone will get a stroke.
Better to not talk about dragon ball heroes ones, i swear
Lol

Also i don't wanna be rude, even if i know i can seem It sometimes. I'm Just too harsh in some occasions, that's It. I can't control that. Is not that i want to be and asshole or mean to you, i Simply don't know how to Say what i think i other ways .Just clarifying

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Re: Why Can't Goten & Trunks Use SSJ3 Without Being Gotenks?

Post by dbgtFO » Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:37 am

The problem is they are too weak.
Only fused together do they have a body strong enough to achieve that state.

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Re: Why Can't Goten & Trunks Use SSJ3 Without Being Gotenks?

Post by theherodjl » Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:39 am

dbgtFO wrote:The problem is they are too weak.
Only fused together do they have a body strong enough to achieve that state.
SSJ3 I can understand, but what about the SSJ Grades & SSJ2? If Gohan could use SSJ2 at age 10 then Trunks & Goten should be able to do it as well especially since they've aged some since the Boo arc.
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Re: Why Can't Goten & Trunks Use SSJ3 Without Being Gotenks?

Post by dbgtFO » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:31 pm

theherodjl wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:The problem is they are too weak.
Only fused together do they have a body strong enough to achieve that state.
SSJ3 I can understand, but what about the SSJ Grades & SSJ2? If Gohan could use SSJ2 at age 10 then Trunks & Goten should be able to do it as well especially since they've aged some since the Boo arc.
They haven't trained enough for SS2, I imagine.
The buff states is another issue depending on interpretation.

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