Objectively, How Much Stronger Is UIO/MUI Than SSJB?

[ZodiacBeast]

If I were writing the series, I would make "Ultra Instinct" (only one form) give the user the perfect offense and defense as well as drawing out the user's full potential/power (instead of a set-in-stone boost like SSJ, etc.), kind of a better "Potential Unleashed".

As for the actual series itself, I believe that UI is a standard DB transformation (makes the user stronger) alongside the benefit of perfect offense/defense.

[ZombieVito]

Well since base Gogeta is Blue tier and needed to go to Blue to beat someone on the level of Beerus then MUI is stronger than Blue by around the amount Blue is stronger than base.

So a really fucking big difference.

No, Gogeta needed to go Blue to embarrass and not be touch by someone Beerus level and Gogeta wasn't using anywhere near his full power.

Gogeta looked Whis's level the way he was embarrassing Broly.

This is "tales from my ass" if I ever seen it.

[miguelnuva1]

Well since base Gogeta is Blue tier and needed to go to Blue to beat someone on the level of Beerus then MUI is stronger than Blue by around the amount Blue is stronger than base.

So a really fucking big difference.

No, Gogeta needed to go Blue to embarrass and not be touch by someone Beerus level and Gogeta wasn't using anywhere near his full power.

Gogeta looked Whis's level the way he was embarrassing Broly.

This is "tales from my ass" if I ever seen it.

Whis ko'ed Beerus with one attack, Gogeta played around with Broly and was never touched. Goku later says Broly might be as strong as Beerus.

How is my estimation out of my ass.

[pepd]

We don't know, and I don't have an established belief on this, but one thing to consider is that:
If KameSennin, being that weak powerlevel-wise, and with a way inferior “UI”, could keep up with contained Jiren; is not impossible or crazy that Gokū UI has just base Gokū power.

[Hugo Boss]

There is no definitive answer. If you go by the anime, since kaioken x20 on top of SSBlue accomplishes nothing against Jiren and the completed Ultra Instinct closes that gap and more, I suppose it’s in the range of far beyond 20-fold. Perhaps like 100-fold.

[ZombieVito]

Whis ko'ed Beerus with one attack, Gogeta played around with Broly and was never touched. Goku later says Broly might be as strong as Beerus.

How is my estimation out of my ass.

I was unable to find a single statement that said Gogeta wasn't at max power while fighting Broly.

Also that Whis example discredits what you are saying. Whis could one shot Beerus. Gogeta couldn't one shot Broly.

[miguelnuva1]

Whis ko'ed Beerus with one attack, Gogeta played around with Broly and was never touched. Goku later says Broly might be as strong as Beerus.

How is my estimation out of my ass.

I was unable to find a single statement that said Gogeta wasn't at max power while fighting Broly.

Also that Whis example discredits what you are saying. Whis could one shot Beerus. Gogeta couldn't one shot Broly.

Gogeta not using his full power was in the light novel for the film, I'm not the first one to mention it.

Gogeta while not using his full power is also playing with Broly, when he starts to get serious he puts Broly down.

Whis on the other hand decides To put Beerus down instantly.

These feats to me are enough to say Gogeta looked like he was nearing Whis.

[p-hyvo]

There's no set and objective answer. Depends on how you scale vegeth in the ft arc and on the multiplier you use. If you ask me, in my last scale I have mui fp as ssb x40'000'000 l'amo and Omen goes from x2'500'000 to x10'000'000

[FishermanJohnWest]

Omen is less then 50 x difference from Blue since it didn't have a bigger multiplier then Kefla

MUI being over 10 x of that is pure wank based on his performance against Jiren in comparison to what other forms of SSJ vs higher forms can accomplish.

UI is no where near fusion level, specifically when you have garbage fusion level characters like Kefla who is made out of 2 SSj2s reaching Omen tier and capable of one-shotting it if she actually landed

[p-hyvo]

Omen is less then 50 x difference from Blue since it didn't have a bigger multiplier then Kefla

MUI being over 10 x of that is pure wank based on his performance against Jiren in comparison to what other forms of SSJ vs higher forms can accomplish.

UI is no where near fusion level, specifically when you have garbage fusion level characters like Kefla who is made out of 2 SSj2s reaching Omen tier and capable of one-shotting it if she actually landed

You forgot a part, that being highlighting this is your opinion. It is not objective in any way

[FishermanJohnWest]

I am going by what the series is showing

Omen isn't anywhere near as strong as people want it to be, Kefla and 127 Jiren proves this, Jiren in episode 127 did beat x 20 Goku, evolution blue and 17 but that's 40+ x of blue level (17 is weaker then blue Goku and Vegeta based on his performance against Base Toppo), and Jiren did beat them well but he did put effort as well.

UI Goku caught Jiren attack and crushed it, blitzed him, but he never put Jiren FP down nor did it stop Jiren from getting back up at the start of episode 130 and start swapping hands with him, no different then SSj2 Gohan catching Cell destructo disk and blow them away and blitzing Cell, but unlike Goku UI, Gohan dropped Cell in a couple of hits while Goku couldn't. And that's just from a SSj to SSj2 gap.

[p-hyvo]

I am going by what the series is showing

Omen isn't anywhere near as strong as people want it to be, Kefla and 127 Jiren proves this, Jiren in episode 127 did beat x 20 Goku, evolution blue and 17 but that's 40+ x of blue level (17 is weaker then blue Goku and Vegeta based on his performance against Base Toppo), and Jiren did beat them well but he did put effort as well.

UI Goku caught Jiren attack and crushed it, blitzed him, but he never put Jiren FP down nor did it stop Jiren from getting back up at the start of episode 130 and start swapping hands with him, no different then SSj2 Gohan catching Cell destructo disk and blow them away and blitzing Cell, but unlike Goku UI, Gohan dropped Cell in a couple of hits while Goku couldn't. And that's just from a SSj to SSj2 gap.

Kefla Is bad writing. She's so strong because the berserker form destroys logic.
Jiren demonstrates nothing , obviously he wrecks omen considering it took mastered ui to beat base jiren.
Plus, omen 3fp>omen 3=omen 2 >omen 1 as multiplier

Plus, a low multiplier for UI defeats logic because if it's low it means that if Goku gets multiple tim s stronger he'll become stronger than beerus in ssb/ssbkk20, and that doesn't make sense. Gods are immensely stronger than ssb tiers

[FishermanJohnWest]

.

Kefla Is bad writing. She's so strong because the berserker form destroys logic.
Jiren demonstrates nothing , obviously he wrecks omen considering it took mastered ui to beat base jiren.
Plus, omen 3fp>omen 3=omen 2 >omen 1 as multiplier

Plus, a low multiplier for UI defeats logic because if it's low it means that if Goku gets multiple tim s stronger he'll become stronger than beerus in ssb/ssbkk20, and that doesn't make sense. Gods are immensely stronger than ssb tiers

Her Berserker form got stronger and was struggling with SSj2 Goku after, saying Kefla is bad writing thus it should be ignored isn't disproving anything.

Jiren in episode 127, 128, 129 didn't wreck Omen, he went toe to toe with him, and that same Jiren at to put effort into beating guys 20 x of blue level. SSj Kefla beat Goku Kaioken after a good fight and SSj to SSj2 is a 2 x increase in strength.

Omen multiplier doesn't increase only, Goku overall simply got stronger, hence why Blue Goku is swapping hands with Jiren in episode 122, nearly kicks him out in episode 123, and Vegeta knocks Jiren down with the final flash in 122, and Jiren uses more power then what he did in episode 110 when he fought Omen Goku the 1st time.

And we don't know if Goku became stronger then Beerus cause Jiren was only compared to Beerus through an arm wrestle, and when the rumors was said to be true, that same Jiren in episode 110 and he struggled with blue fighters afterwards. And seeing how Broly was called the strongest many times over and only probably above Beerus, I highly doubt anyone in the TOP surpassed Beerus

Omen multiplier is safely under 50 x of blue level based on his performance with Jiren and Kefla

[miguelnuva1]

SSJ Kefla was fighting KKx20 Blue and later she needs to go ssj2 to fight Sign.

That's right at a 50x multiplier.

Ultra Instinct arguably shouldn't even be stronger than Sign as Goku is simply learning to attack at the UI level. A 2x boost works for silver.

[p-hyvo]

SSJ Kefla was fighting KKx20 Blue and later she needs to go ssj2 to fight Sign.

That's right at a 50x multiplier.

Ultra Instinct arguably shouldn't even be stronger than Sign as Goku is simply learning to attack at the UI level. A 2x boost works for silver.

Yeah, but first berserker activates and what happens? She's still ssj technically, and whis compares her to genkidama. Then she goes ssj2 and gets compared to omen 1

So yeah it's a bit different
Ssj2 berserker>=omen 1>ssj berserker≥genkidama >>ssbkk20>ssj>ssb>base>god

And I'd say, nothing tells us that's a kk20. Goku doesn't yell it, nor any character tells us so. It can be a normal kaioken as well in my book, considering that Goku wasn't fullpower when he uses it and anyone remarks it.
Moreover, sign clearly has distinct levels of power every time it appears, it changes with Goku being stronger and learning bit to bit how to use it. It is not the same multiplier every time.

[miguelnuva1]

SSJ Kefla was fighting KKx20 Blue and later she needs to go ssj2 to fight Sign.

That's right at a 50x multiplier.

Ultra Instinct arguably shouldn't even be stronger than Sign as Goku is simply learning to attack at the UI level. A 2x boost works for silver.

Yeah, but first berserker activates and what happens? She's still ssj technically, and whis compares her to genkidama. Then she goes ssj2 and gets compared to omen 1

So yeah it's a bit different
Ssj2 berserker>=omen 1>ssj berserker≥genkidama >>ssbkk20>ssj>ssb>base>god

And I'd say, nothing tells us that's a kk20. Goku doesn't yell it, nor any character tells us so. It can be a normal kaioken as well in my book, considering that Goku wasn't fullpower when he uses it and anyone remarks it.
Moreover, sign clearly has distinct levels of power every time it appears, it changes with Goku being stronger and learning bit to bit how to use it. It is not the same multiplier every time.

Goku's kaioken aura gets bigger after he and Kelfa fight a bit, why wouldn't he be using KKx20 against the strongest opponent since Jiren. Sign gets stronger because Goku gets stronger after he uses it. Multipliers don't exit in Super but Sign is a major power up over base Blue.

[FishermanJohnWest]

SSJ Kefla was fighting KKx20 Blue and later she needs to go ssj2 to fight Sign.

That's right at a 50x multiplier.

Ultra Instinct arguably shouldn't even be stronger than Sign as Goku is simply learning to attack at the UI level. A 2x boost works for silver.

Yeah, but first berserker activates and what happens? She's still ssj technically, and whis compares her to genkidama. Then she goes ssj2 and gets compared to omen 1

So yeah it's a bit different
Ssj2 berserker>=omen 1>ssj berserker≥genkidama >>ssbkk20>ssj>ssb>base>god

And I'd say, nothing tells us that's a kk20. Goku doesn't yell it, nor any character tells us so. It can be a normal kaioken as well in my book, considering that Goku wasn't fullpower when he uses it and anyone remarks it.
Moreover, sign clearly has distinct levels of power every time it appears, it changes with Goku being stronger and learning bit to bit how to use it. It is not the same multiplier every time.

Goku's kaioken aura gets bigger after he and Kelfa fight a bit, why wouldn't he be using KKx20 against the strongest opponent since Jiren. Sign gets stronger because Goku gets stronger after he uses it. Multipliers don't exit in Super but Sign is a major power up over base Blue.

Bingo

Goku simply got overall stronger in the TOP, the fact that a weakened SSJB Goku can hold his own against SSJ Kelfa who rivals the spirit bomb shows how much Goku has gotten stronger, which shouldn't be surprising cause he went toe to toe with Jiren in episode 122/123 who surpassed the spirit bomb and making Jiren use more power, showing once again Goku got stronger

[p-hyvo]

SSJ Kefla was fighting KKx20 Blue and later she needs to go ssj2 to fight Sign.

That's right at a 50x multiplier.

Ultra Instinct arguably shouldn't even be stronger than Sign as Goku is simply learning to attack at the UI level. A 2x boost works for silver.

Yeah, but first berserker activates and what happens? She's still ssj technically, and whis compares her to genkidama. Then she goes ssj2 and gets compared to omen 1

So yeah it's a bit different
Ssj2 berserker>=omen 1>ssj berserker≥genkidama >>ssbkk20>ssj>ssb>base>god

And I'd say, nothing tells us that's a kk20. Goku doesn't yell it, nor any character tells us so. It can be a normal kaioken as well in my book, considering that Goku wasn't fullpower when he uses it and anyone remarks it.
Moreover, sign clearly has distinct levels of power every time it appears, it changes with Goku being stronger and learning bit to bit how to use it. It is not the same multiplier every time.

Goku's kaioken aura gets bigger after he and Kelfa fight a bit, why wouldn't he be using KKx20 against the strongest opponent since Jiren. Sign gets stronger because Goku gets stronger after he uses it. Multipliers don't exit in Super but Sign is a major power up over base Blue.

If multipliers doesn't exist, then why are we talking about them ? That's a stupid point

[p-hyvo]

Yeah, but first berserker activates and what happens? She's still ssj technically, and whis compares her to genkidama. Then she goes ssj2 and gets compared to omen 1

So yeah it's a bit different
Ssj2 berserker>=omen 1>ssj berserker≥genkidama >>ssbkk20>ssj>ssb>base>god

And I'd say, nothing tells us that's a kk20. Goku doesn't yell it, nor any character tells us so. It can be a normal kaioken as well in my book, considering that Goku wasn't fullpower when he uses it and anyone remarks it.
Moreover, sign clearly has distinct levels of power every time it appears, it changes with Goku being stronger and learning bit to bit how to use it. It is not the same multiplier every time.

Goku's kaioken aura gets bigger after he and Kelfa fight a bit, why wouldn't he be using KKx20 against the strongest opponent since Jiren. Sign gets stronger because Goku gets stronger after he uses it. Multipliers don't exit in Super but Sign is a major power up over base Blue.

Bingo

Goku simply got overall stronger in the TOP, the fact that a weakened SSJB Goku can hold his own against SSJ Kelfa who rivals the spirit bomb shows how much Goku has gotten stronger, which shouldn't be surprising cause he went toe to toe with Jiren in episode 122/123 who surpassed the spirit bomb and making Jiren use more power, showing once again Goku got stronger

Goku never went toe to toe with berserker kefla. He could fight ssj kefla, but when berserker kicked in he got oneshotted

[miguelnuva1]

Yeah, but first berserker activates and what happens? She's still ssj technically, and whis compares her to genkidama. Then she goes ssj2 and gets compared to omen 1

So yeah it's a bit different
Ssj2 berserker>=omen 1>ssj berserker≥genkidama >>ssbkk20>ssj>ssb>base>god

And I'd say, nothing tells us that's a kk20. Goku doesn't yell it, nor any character tells us so. It can be a normal kaioken as well in my book, considering that Goku wasn't fullpower when he uses it and anyone remarks it.
Moreover, sign clearly has distinct levels of power every time it appears, it changes with Goku being stronger and learning bit to bit how to use it. It is not the same multiplier every time.

Goku's kaioken aura gets bigger after he and Kelfa fight a bit, why wouldn't he be using KKx20 against the strongest opponent since Jiren. Sign gets stronger because Goku gets stronger after he uses it. Multipliers don't exit in Super but Sign is a major power up over base Blue.

If multipliers doesn't exist, then why are we talking about them ? That's a stupid point

Were talking about how much stronger we think Sign is, there is no official number but to me for example its 50x stronger than Blue.