Was Toriyama's Cosmos Map ever meant to be taken literally?
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- LoganForkHands73
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Was Toriyama's Cosmos Map ever meant to be taken literally?
Reading through Kanzenshuu's Guide to the Cosmos (written by Douglas Adams), I was admiring Toriyama's artwork of the macrocosm globe. We have Heaven, the Enma Realm, etc on the upper half, which are all depicted fairly normally, but then we get to the Living Realm and Demon Realm, which are both surrounded by this opaque, cylindric barrier patterned with hieroglyphs. While the whole cosmos is depicted as if encased in a glass dome, the idea of a solid wall surrounding the living universe is strange to imagine. If Beerus and Whis were to travel far enough in one direction, would they really hit a literal wall?
Toriyama's diagram of the cosmos was mainly made to assist the anime staff with worldbuilding and conceptualising where everything is in relation to each other in the Dragon World, but it has appeared in a few stories. Most notably, Dai Kaio forms a miniature replica of it on his fingertip in the Z anime, and the Super manga briefly shows Universe 10 as having an identical appearance to Universe 7, seemingly confirming that all universes have the same basic structure.
Personally, I always perceived the map as being more of a symbolic, non-literal imagining of how the universe roughly looks, simplified for our mortal eyes. Kinda like how ancient cartographers took liberties with map designs of the Seven Seas, or how Renaissance artists symbolically represented Heaven and Hell as these layered planes of existence. You see in work based on Dante's Divine Comedy, Hell is depicted as like a narrowing funnel stretching out below the living world. So I'd consider the possibility that the living realm of Universe 7 isn't literally surrounded by a brick wall, but the design decision was made to symbolise that it is a grounded, physical place below the ethereal planes of reality.
I understand though that the Kanzenshuu guides and eventual wiki can only go off official sources, so there's little room for this kind of speculation. This isn't me saying that it's wrong or anything, I'm just spitballing ideas. As always, thanks for the hard work put into the site!
Toriyama's diagram of the cosmos was mainly made to assist the anime staff with worldbuilding and conceptualising where everything is in relation to each other in the Dragon World, but it has appeared in a few stories. Most notably, Dai Kaio forms a miniature replica of it on his fingertip in the Z anime, and the Super manga briefly shows Universe 10 as having an identical appearance to Universe 7, seemingly confirming that all universes have the same basic structure.
Personally, I always perceived the map as being more of a symbolic, non-literal imagining of how the universe roughly looks, simplified for our mortal eyes. Kinda like how ancient cartographers took liberties with map designs of the Seven Seas, or how Renaissance artists symbolically represented Heaven and Hell as these layered planes of existence. You see in work based on Dante's Divine Comedy, Hell is depicted as like a narrowing funnel stretching out below the living world. So I'd consider the possibility that the living realm of Universe 7 isn't literally surrounded by a brick wall, but the design decision was made to symbolise that it is a grounded, physical place below the ethereal planes of reality.
I understand though that the Kanzenshuu guides and eventual wiki can only go off official sources, so there's little room for this kind of speculation. This isn't me saying that it's wrong or anything, I'm just spitballing ideas. As always, thanks for the hard work put into the site!
Last edited by LoganForkHands73 on Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Was Toriyama's Cosmos Map ever meant to be taken literally?
I interpret the world of the living as a sheet that is curved around the lower hemisphere to show that the Otherworld is a dimension apart like 3D to 2D. So while Gods can travel between universes in three dimensional space, mortals can only move about in a two dimensional one, which only works as an analogy since they're all solid beings.
Re: Was Toriyama's Cosmos Map ever meant to be taken literally?
I'm thinking no, it was not meant to be taken literally. Like DESASSINA said, I think those spheres or domes are supposed to be like other dimensions. I don't think that if a ningen were to travel there, they'd encounter a dome's wall, probably they'd travel forever reaching nothing, although I think the DB cosmos is not infinite.
- TheQuestioner
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Re: Was Toriyama's Cosmos Map ever meant to be taken literally?
I don't think it was, even if it was it shouldn't be. The map depicts the planets of the Kaio to be large enough to be visible on the map, yet as we all know King Kai's planet is much smaller than the map makes it out to be. It's just a map that's intended to show the overall structure of the macrocosm.
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Re: Was Toriyama's Cosmos Map ever meant to be taken literally?
Also if you take it literally, Snake Way is half as long as the universe.TheQuestioner wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:17 pm I don't think it was, even if it was it shouldn't be. The map depicts the planets of the Kaio to be large enough to be visible on the map, yet as we all know King Kai's planet is much smaller than the map makes it out to be. It's just a map that's intended to show the overall structure of the macrocosm.
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Re: Was Toriyama's Cosmos Map ever meant to be taken literally?
It should be noted that the afterlife doesn't have to follow the exact rules of space-time. It is it's own half of the dimension that makes up the DBverse so reality can be whatever it wants.Polyphase Avatron wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:21 pmAlso if you take it literally, Snake Way is half as long as the universe.TheQuestioner wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:17 pm I don't think it was, even if it was it shouldn't be. The map depicts the planets of the Kaio to be large enough to be visible on the map, yet as we all know King Kai's planet is much smaller than the map makes it out to be. It's just a map that's intended to show the overall structure of the macrocosm.
How else is there an atmosphere, gravity, and edible clouds in a massive realm?
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Re: Was Toriyama's Cosmos Map ever meant to be taken literally?
I once drew a picture where I tried to convey the idea of night and day in a room whose walls had their transition while the floor and ceiling were distinct. You could see both at the same time by distorting its perpsective so that it appeared to be curved.
Either day or night will lit the same room in real life, but I decided that, in case you looked up, you could see the starry sky, while in the opposite direction, the sunny rays instead. Toriyama's illustration of the universe in Dragon Ball inspired me to do this when I shared a dogmatic view of the sky.
Spoiler:
Either day or night will lit the same room in real life, but I decided that, in case you looked up, you could see the starry sky, while in the opposite direction, the sunny rays instead. Toriyama's illustration of the universe in Dragon Ball inspired me to do this when I shared a dogmatic view of the sky.
- LoganForkHands73
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Re: Was Toriyama's Cosmos Map ever meant to be taken literally?
Wow, that's pretty cool, dude.Desassina wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:34 am I once drew a picture where I tried to convey the idea of night and day in a room whose walls had their transition while the floor and ceiling were distinct. You could see both at the same time by distorting its perpsective so that it appeared to be curved.
Spoiler:
Either day or night will lit the same room in real life, but I decided that, in case you looked up, you could see the starry sky, while in the opposite direction, the sunny rays instead. Toriyama's illustration of the universe in Dragon Ball inspired me to do this when I shared a dogmatic view of the sky.