Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 15; Still Unreleased

[MasenkoHA]

even if they can license it, some providers don't carry the channel so some fan won't be able to watch the dub.

When Dragon Ball Kai was airing in Japan most fans outside Japan where watching tv rips with fansubs online not long after the episode aired.

When the edited English dub aired on Nicktoons tv rips for that were the most readily available version for fans to watch the dub.


If Ocean Kai gets some sort of broadcast fans who donn’t get that channel will find a way to watch it if they’re inclined.

[eledoremassis02]

even if they can license it, some providers don't carry the channel so some fan won't be able to watch the dub.

When Dragon Ball Kai was airing in Japan most fans outside Japan where watching tv rips with fansubs online not long after the episode aired.

When the edited English dub aired on Nicktoons tv rips for that were the most readily available version for fans to watch the dub.


If Ocean Kai gets some sort of broadcast fans who donn’t get that channel will find a way to watch it if they’re inclined.

Bang Zoom super also comes to mind as well

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

I'm sure if the Ocean Kai dub does get picked up by an interested channel and aired at some point in the future that something similar will happen.

[TheBlackPaladin]

It's also worth noting that, back when Nicktoons was still airing Kai, TV tapings posted online existed, but weren't necessary, because the Nicktoons website streamed it for free (I mean, y'know, with ad breaks, but still free). That's how I watched it for the most part before I got the Blu-Rays. The Toonzai-edited version was also streamed for free on their website, buuuuuut, yeah, didn't watch that version much.

So, all that to say, who knows...if a network picked up the rights, maybe they'd stream it as well.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Kai being streamed would be great, especially if it can be done internationally. As I don't like piracy legal means of consuming my entertainment is aways appreciated, even though I own Funimation's Season 1-4 Blu-Rays, Manga UK's Seasons 1-2 and Final Chapters so I guess I've done my part

[TheBlackPaladin]

Kai being streamed would be great, especially if it can be done internationally. As I don't like piracy legal means of consuming my entertainment is aways appreciated, even though I own Funimation's Season 1-4 Blu-Rays, Manga UK's Seasons 1-2 and Final Chapters so I guess I've done my part

Totally agreed. I don't condone piracy (and in fact, condemn it) except in extremely specific and limited situations. Like, if we were talking about a dub that was released on home video and was still widely available, then hell no, people shouldn't be pirating it. That's not what we're dealing with, though. My thought is, if you've bought the home video release of Kai, then there's nothing wrong with doing some...shall we say legally ambiguous stuff to watch an alternate dub of it that was never going to be released on home video anyway. Nor, for that matter, was it going to be shown in the territory in which you live.

For that matter, it might not even be legally ambiguous. As I understand it, VPNs that change your geographic location are indeed legal, and if the Ocean dub of Kai was streamed with ads, I'd gladly sit through the ads.

[KPike87]

This is actually really exciting, even if it is a slim chance. It's a shame we won't have the dub using the Yamamoto score (I'd imagine they made a Kikuchi version since they were still shopping for channels by mid 2011), but since it's most definitely used the edited video they made, some talented folks could match it with the Nicktoons/Kix music placement, since sometimes they end songs early or chop them up, to match the chopped video somewhat, for episodes 1-63.

This is also neat because it'd mark the first time in years Dragon Ball will be marketed towards kids in North America. I know I haven't watched kids TV in years and haven't seen most of these shows, but looking at their current programmings, I think it'll stick out on their channel the same way Kai did for Nicktoons, adding a more serious and involved cartoon as oppose to the straight up comedies most shows on those respective channels offer.

[TheBlackPaladin]

...It's a shame we won't have the dub using the Yamamoto score (I'd imagine they made a Kikuchi version since they were still shopping for channels by mid 2011)...

We know for a fact that neither the Yamamoto nor the Kikuchi scores were used. A new score was created from the ground up specifically for this dub by.....pfft, I forget who, somebody just put this part of my post in a quote bubble and say who it is.

In any event, Canada has "Canadian Content" laws dictating that a certain percentage of all entertainment on TV and radio has to be Canadian--or, to use less formal language, "Canadian enough"--in origin. One of the ways they can do that for shows like Kai is by hiring Canadians to compose a new score, which is what they did. Much like the Ocean dub itself, pretty much no one has heard it. That said, one of the few people who did hear it has compared it to some of the "darker, more dramatic" scores of recent DC animated movies.

[KPike87]

...It's a shame we won't have the dub using the Yamamoto score (I'd imagine they made a Kikuchi version since they were still shopping for channels by mid 2011)...

We know for a fact that neither the Yamamoto nor the Kikuchi scores were used. A new score was created from the ground up specifically for this dub by.....pfft, I forget who, somebody just put this part of my post in a quote bubble and say who it is.

In any event, Canada has "Canadian Content" laws dictating that a certain percentage of all entertainment on TV and radio has to be Canadian--or, to use less formal language, "Canadian enough"--in origin. One of the ways they can do that for shows like Kai is by hiring Canadians to compose a new score, which is what they did. Much like the Ocean dub itself, pretty much no one has heard it. That said, one of the few people who did hear it has compared it to some of the "darker, more dramatic" scores of recent DC animated movies.

Oh cool, I didn't know that. I thought it was just the opening and ending that were different. That's pretty interesting.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

...It's a shame we won't have the dub using the Yamamoto score (I'd imagine they made a Kikuchi version since they were still shopping for channels by mid 2011)...

We know for a fact that neither the Yamamoto nor the Kikuchi scores were used. A new score was created from the ground up specifically for this dub by.....pfft, I forget who, somebody just put this part of my post in a quote bubble and say who it is.

Your wish has been granted

The replacement score for the Ocean dub of Kai was composed by Tom Keenlyside and John Mitchell, the same team who composed the library music and eventual original tracks used in the Westwood dub.

I'd never rule out the possibility that a Kikuchi mix of Ocean Kai was created. Keenlyside and Mitchell's score, as you said was produced to help this dub qualify as Canadian content. In international territories, like the UK and Ireland where this dub was going to air on Kix this wouldn't be necessary. For all we know the edit that aired on Kix with Kikuchi could have been what Ocean planned to use with their cast instead of Funimations.

[MasenkoHA]

In any event, Canada has "Canadian Content" laws dictating that a certain percentage of all entertainment on TV and radio has to be Canadian--or, to use less formal language, "Canadian enough"--in origin. One of the ways they can do that for shows like Kai is by hiring Canadians to compose a new score, which is what they did. Much like the Ocean dub itself, pretty much no one has heard it. That said, one of the few people who did hear it has compared it to some of the "darker, more dramatic" scores of recent DC animated movies.

Was a new score really necessary for it to count as CanCon? The voice actors are Canadians, I assume all the writers are Canadian (hopefully Ward Perry is one of the writers) the voice directors, the video editors would be Canadians. Literally the only thing that wouldn’t be Canadian about the dub is the animation itself.


Gen Fukunaga mentioned off hand in a interview one of the reasons they had (at the time) used Canadian voice actors was to get Z broadcasted in Canada and other than the cast about half(?) the writers on staff were Canadian , and the non-Barry voice directors were Canadian. If that was enough to be considered Canadian content surely Ocean Kai with the Kikuchi score would still qualify?

I’m not complaining since the Kikuchi score was used so poorly and obviously the Yamamoto score is unusable NOW but it just seemed like the Anitunes replacement music was an unnecessary thing done to distinguish it from Funimation’s Kai.

Spoiler:

Maybe the editors at Ocean heard the obvious rip off of Terminator Salvation and Avatar in the Yamamoto score and decided to just trash the entire thing just in case

[Super Sayian Prime]

The music swap has nothing to do with Cancon. Dubs are given a 50% time credit regardless of whether or not the score was composed locally.



I'm also sceptical that this dub's score is original. There probably were new pieces composed for the show, but the Anitunes guys like to use their library of finished works.

[Robo4900]

I'm also sceptical that this dub's score is original. There probably were new pieces composed for the show, but the Anitunes guys like to use their library of finished works.

Incorrect, and that's not how it works anyway.

Anitunes are given an episode, or a handful of episodes of a series to compose an original score for, and then the producers of the series are given various versions of all cues composed for these episodes, to reuse throughout the rest of the series. Often additional episodes are then given over at a later date to supply new themes, say at the start of a new season or with the introduction of new characters and environments that could use some new themes.

Not all that desimilar to the way the Kikuchi score was done, really (Kikuchi would compose packages of themes for Toei to use periodically throughout DB. In Z, he only did this twice -- once at the beginning, and once for Great Saiyaman -- though his full original scores for the movies were used to supply new themes to Z in addition to these, and they had the full library of DB tracks to use too), but the difference is that the main place we know Anitunes' work from is the Westwood dub, which -- until the mid-late Boo arc -- wasn't actually scored by Anitunes at all, Ocean simply used music they had lying around that they could freely use, all of which was composed by Anitunes for other shows (mainly Mega Man and Monster Rancher; though at first, it was almost entirely Mega Man tracks, and quite a limited pool of them, for a show as long as DBZ).
This misconception is deepened by the fact that, DBZ aside, Ocean do still tend to grab cues from other series in addition to the cues specifically composed for any given series. Unlike DBZ, they're not limited to a tiny pool of such cues, however, but most Dragon Ball fans don't really know this, which gives Anitunes the poor reputation they have among the fandom. (Much like how calling the Saban dub "The Ocean dub" has led Ocean to become associated with Funimation's awful scripts and Saban's censorship mandates, among much of the Dragon Ball fandom)

So, the reality is that Ocean Kai will have a few fully-originally-scored episodes (at a guess, a few key episodes from throughout may have been chosen so themes could be created for the major villains and characters), with the created themes then used throughout the rest, likely with this or that other library track put in if the editor of any given episode decides another track is needed that the Kai-specific score doesn't cover.

[NitroEX]

Yeah, new music was definitely composed for Kai as Anitunes have had that listed on their website for years but the thing with the Ocean kids dubs is that they occasionally rely on library music for various other projects so the Kai music could have been reused for other things by now, not by Anitunes but by Ocean's editors most likely. We'll never really know unless we hear the Kai dub. The same goes for any pre-Kai music in their library showing up again in Kai, we just can't say for sure.

As we've seen in the past, the tracks that Anitunes make for one show don't necessarily remain exclusive to that show afterwards, they get put into Ocean's library and essentially become stock/production music which Ocean can then draw from at any point. This is actually common practice for television shows except that the majority of shows will source their library music from big publishers that are shared by many production companies in the industry, this is why you might hear the same tracks pop up in unrelated shows, trailers, videogames, ads and other things. Ocean's deal with Anitunes seems to keep the music exclusive only to their productions as Ocean owns the music. I don't think Anitunes could release those tracks even if they wanted to.

[90sDBZ]

The Megaman OST used in the Westwood dub had a couple of decent tracks, but was waaaay too limited and repetitive. The Army theme was pretty good, but was overused throughout the Android and Cell Sagas.

The Monster Rancher OST introduced in the Fusion Saga was actually awesome though, and gave the score some much needed variety. Some of the music that played during Goku vs Kid Buu fit wonderfully.

If Ocean Kai uses the Monster Rancher music again then that's a plus for it in my book. It would definitely be a step up from the Kikuchi Kai placement.

[Arian]

So, it looks like the first post in 2021 on this thread is going to made by me. That can't be a good sign. ^^;

I was speaking to a friend of mine not too long ago about the same old, Canadian broadcasting politics and she said something that struck a nerve with me. She pointed out that shows such as Yu-Gi-Oh! Vrains, Beyblade Burst, and the gone (and purposely forgotten) Turning Mecard were most likely put on Canadian airwaves because the producers were paying the broadcasting titan to do so, and they're not shy to comply. And this doesn't seem that off to me, given that Turning Mecard had some of the most foul acting performances I've ever seen and Corus management turned a blind eye to it. How could they air that drivel but refuse Kai?

This theory, especially now that I'm saying it out loud, is rapidly making more sense. Toei and Ocean most likely expected Corus to air Dragon Ball Kai under a regular sort of deal where advertising would pay for the airtime (either that or they expected Corus themselves to out of sentimental value), which as we know, given the type of show Dragon Ball Kai is, wasn't going to happen.

Now, is there any way that Toei and/or Ocean can wise up, smell the coffee so to speak and strike a deal with them? I think not because Toei more than likely expects to be paid or at least kissed up to for them to approve a broadcast deal, they're definitely not going out of pocket when they have FUNimation's dub on Blu-ray and several other platforms, plus its a bygone property at this point.

It's just so sad that all of the parties involved have massive egos and can't see anything past them.

[wjbraden]

https://imissbionix.wordpress.com/2021/ ... -a-vision/

Not to bump this thread with even more irrelevant things, but this Toon-A-Vision channel really does seem to be expanding their little anime block as of late. Maybe showing them our interest is the next course of action?

[Arian]

https://imissbionix.wordpress.com/2021/ ... -a-vision/

Not to bump this thread with even more irrelevant things, but this Toon-A-Vision channel really does seem to be expanding their little anime block as of late. Maybe showing them our interest is the next course of action?

Where have you been, homeslice?

I probably shouldn't announce this so callously and on a grand stage such as this but to hell with it:

Through a friend, I managed to obtain the email address of one Adam Mimnagh, the founder and president of Toon-A-Vision. I took the opportunity to pitch the concept of him airing the program on his network, and you can basically guess which dub I put heavy emphasis on. And let me tell you why.

The friend I'm speaking of requested that a program be placed back on the air, back in rotation. And not only did he get a personal response from Mr. Mimnagh, but the request was honoured! Now, I do realize that putting a program he already had the license to back on the schedule is not the same as a new program pitch, but it still is something, and I provided plenty of statistics and logic to rationalize why pursuing Ocean Kai would not only make us happy, but would be good for him and his network.

I shot it off yesterday afternoon. Fingers crossed I get some sort of response today, but I'm aware it can happen or not at any given time.

Gotta keep the faith, people.

[wjbraden]

Where have you been, homeslice?

...Obviously not keeping up with this thread like I should, sorry...

But still, the fact that they're opening their doors to more acquisitions is a good sign, so best to strike the iron while it's hot by spreading the word.

[Planetnamek]

Where have you been, homeslice?

...Obviously not keeping up with this thread like I should, sorry...

But still, the fact that they're opening their doors to more acquisitions is a good sign, so best to strike the iron while it's hot by spreading the word.

That's awesome that you know someone that might be interested in airing this dub, it would be amazing if we could finally see it.