Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 15; Still Unreleased

[Robo4900]

Obviously, that clip shouldn't be taken so literally as to believe his Freeza screams every line like that, though I'm sure that won't stop some people.

Yeah. Some people are quite determined to make out that the Ocean actors are the worst thing to ever happen to Dragon Ball, and anything they touch is a disaster, so naturally this off-the-cuff snippet will add a little fuel to that fire. Best to just ignore such people, really. People who mercilessly mock things for being "bad" with no actual insight or value in their criticism are just an artefact of the Nostalgia Critic/CinemaSins type of discourse that's always been popular on the internet, despite indeed being entirely devoid of any actual value aside from the odd funny joke, which usually could have existed in another, better context anyway.

... Got a little deep there for a second, but I think my point is made. If not, then TL;DR: Haters gonna hate.

My initial thoughts on the voice were actually that it sounded like Derek Stephen Prince's performance.

You and Nitro both pointed this out, but I've already quoted him, so I decided to quote you on this.

I haven't heard much of Derek Stephen Prince's version, but I do recall it being more monstrous, like Tockar's take seems to be.

To be frank, I'm much happier with the idea that Tockar's is a vastly different version of Freeza from Ayres'. It means, if this dub does come out, you couldn't really compare them directly, they'd just be totally different, presumably equally valid, takes on the character. Won't stop certain people from mocking his take for being different from what they expect and are used to, as we saw with Derek Stephen Prince and the rest of the Bang Zoom cast, but of course they would criticise any take; if it was closer to Ayres' version, they would just mock it for being a bad impression, so... Yeah, I'm pleased he's gone for something a bit different.

[Planetnamek]

You are quite ready to throw the towel? Isnt that the same as giving up?

Forgot to put "not" there, i'm not ready to throw in the towel.

Obviously, that clip shouldn't be taken so literally as to believe his Freeza screams every line like that, though I'm sure that won't stop some people.

Yeah. Some people are quite determined to make out that the Ocean actors are the worst thing to ever happen to Dragon Ball, and anything they touch is a disaster, so naturally this off-the-cuff snippet will add a little fuel to that fire. Best to just ignore such people, really. People who mercilessly mock things for being "bad" with no actual insight or value in their criticism are just an artefact of the Nostalgia Critic/CinemaSins type of discourse that's always been popular on the internet, despite indeed being entirely devoid of any actual value aside from the odd funny joke, which usually could have existed in another, better context anyway.

... Got a little deep there for a second, but I think my point is made. If not, then TL;DR: Haters gonna hate.

My initial thoughts on the voice were actually that it sounded like Derek Stephen Prince's performance.

You and Nitro both pointed this out, but I've already quoted him, so I decided to quote you on this.

I haven't heard much of Derek Stephen Prince's version, but I do recall it being more monstrous, like Tockar's take seems to be.

To be frank, I'm much happier with the idea that Tockar's is a vastly different version of Freeza from Ayres'. It means, if this dub does come out, you couldn't really compare them directly, they'd just be totally different, presumably equally valid, takes on the character. Won't stop certain people from mocking his take for being different from what they expect and are used to, as we saw with Derek Stephen Prince and the rest of the Bang Zoom cast, but of course they would criticise any take; if it was closer to Ayres' version, they would just mock it for being a bad impression, so... Yeah, I'm pleased he's gone for something a bit different.

I wouldn't quite put NC in the same camp as CS, as at least NC's later videos are more analytical in nature and a lot less shouty then early reviews, whereas CS has pretty much always been terrible and whining about nonexistent plot holes.

But yes it is ridiculous that people crap all over the Ocean cast when they did nothing to deserve it, sure some voices weren't great(Krillin) but others were pretty good.

[WittyUsername]

I’m willing to bet that this dub will eventually see the light of day in the form of a leak.

[OmegaRockman]

A goofy-sounding voice being demonstrated in a podcast off the cuff is pretty different from an actual performance, after all.

Totally fair. I was just voicing my feelings based on this first impression. You're right that it's likely not going to sound exactly like that in the show proper. I suppose I was just really expecting that Hamill-esque take and was kinda taken aback when I instead heard something that reminded me more of the Blue Water GT actress. I didn't mean to come off as a random Ocean cast hater. I may mostly prefer modern Funi to the Ocean cast these days, but I still have a lot of love for the Ocean cast's work; their dubs of the first few Z movies are the only way I watch them dubbed and Scott McNeil is still the best English Piccolo. With that in mind, I'm really interested in their Kai dub. After their take on the Z films, I'd love to see a faithful Ocean cast dub of the main series. I mean, I could do without the replacement score, but I'm one of those idiots who actually likes Kikuchi Kai, haha.

[SX10]

He said it was on the air and we've heard this once or twice before. But we know or a fact it hasn't been.

He obviously gave us stressed out in the middle of a fight Freeza haha.

But to even hear just a snippet like this, well... brings a tear to the eye :'(

NEVER say die

[Robo4900]

I wouldn't quite put NC in the same camp as CS, as at least NC's later videos are more analytical in nature and a lot less shouty then early reviews, whereas CS has pretty much always been terrible and whining about nonexistent plot holes.

Fair points.

But yes it is ridiculous that people crap all over the Ocean cast when they did nothing to deserve it, sure some voices weren't great(Krillin) but others were pretty good.

I wouldn't criticise their Kuririn, to be frank. I'm used to him sounding like that because that's what I saw on TV when I was a kid. Many people find him weird because they aren't used to it, and what I always say when people criticise any given Ocean voice is: Sit down and watch the Saban and Westwood dubs someday. Just sit and enjoy it. Get a feel for the vibe and the characters as they are in that version, and you'll soon change your tune. You're unlikely to drop any of your favourite prior voices from their top spots, but actually watching the Ocean stuff will make you appreciate it for what it is, rather than simply reacting to how different the clips you've heard are.

Granted, more frequently than I'd expect, people tell me they did watch it all, and they just didn't like that voice, which is fair enough. Even I, the biggest Ocean fanboy around, do have one or two Ocean castings I'm not hugely keen on; #16 is the one that comes to mind, as much as I adore all of Scott McNeil's other work in the show.

Totally fair. I was just voicing my feelings based on this first impression. You're right that it's likely not going to sound exactly like that in the show proper. I suppose I was just really expecting that Hamill-esque take and was kinda taken aback when I instead heard something that reminded me more of the Blue Water GT actress. I didn't mean to come off as a random Ocean cast hater. I may mostly prefer modern Funi to the Ocean cast these days, but I still have a lot of love for the Ocean cast's work; their dubs of the first few Z movies are the only way I watch them dubbed and Scott McNeil is still the best English Piccolo. With that in mind, I'm really interested in their Kai dub. After their take on the Z films, I'd love to see a faithful Ocean cast dub of the main series. I mean, I could do without the replacement score, but I'm one of those idiots who actually likes Kikuchi Kai, haha.

Yeah. I didn't assume you were, to be clear. I'm sure many of the Ocean haters will latch onto this, but we can ignore them quite easily. I was just eager to say my piece as soon as possible once I saw this off-the-cuff clip.

I imagine Lee Tockar watched the series when it was originally on, so some influence from the previous Canadian voices isn't too unexpected. A few parts of his two lines there actually remind me of Linda Young a little.

I do hope we'll see this dub one day. Personally, I see the replacement score as a plus, since I hate the Kai Kikuchi score, and I can't enjoy the Yamamoto score.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I imagine Lee Tockar watched the series when it was originally on, so some influence from the previous Canadian voices isn't too unexpected. A few parts of his two lines there actually remind me of Linda Young a little.

Hard to say for the original series, never heard him talk about it, but it's certainly possible he's seen the older Canadian dubs of it. Interestingly, Tockar did say he saw both Kai dubs, and that he really loved Ocean's version, which is pretty cool considering Drummond said in the Geekdom interview all he's seen of this dub was his own dialogue. I actually expect Tockar's Freeza to get more criticism from Linda Young fans because Chris Ayres fans were more accepting of Damon Mills when he occasionally stood in for Ayres in Super.

[TheGreatness25]

Agh... I want this thing released or way or another. Even if it's an "accidental" leak. What is it with Canadian Dragon Ball that everything is all rare, hard to find, had quality, or just locked up in a dungeon/vault somewhere?

Know what would be cool but would never happen? Doing a dubbed manga where it just goes from panel to panel with the Ocean voices doing the dialog (think Street Fighter "movies" or "story modes"). Would cost less than doing a series and damn it, I'd take that.

It's a stupid idea I had while going through the Super manga recently. I mean, who would be in charge of a release like that? Probably still Funimation.

[NitroEX]

I haven't heard much of Derek Stephen Prince's version, but I do recall it being more monstrous, like Tockar's take seems to be.

Here's a comparison I have saved of Derek Stephen Prince in the Bang Zoom dub.
It was rough around the edges but in his defence, he did start at an awkward point and the Bang Zoom dub didn't have the best direction. DSP admitted on social media that they wanted him to sound like Ayres when he first began but he did his own thing after his first episode which turned out to have more of a deranged slant to it. Overall I don't think there was much vision behind that production which is a shame as he has all the tools to be a good Freeza (you get a sense of it hearing his other roles such as Vexen), but I felt the circumstances of that particular dub hindered him.

Tockar at least got to do Freeza from his introduction so he got to grow into the role more naturally, and there wouldn't be any impersonating going on with Ocean's dub. Plus, he presumably got to improve his Freeza throughout the Namek arc like Ayres did, and judging by his passion for the role all these years later I would assume he gave it his all. I think what Lee had in mind during that interview clip were moments like this rather than the calmer speaking tones we're used to.

It's still hard to compare without the full performance but I would guess Tockar and DSP's Freeza sound similar in that they're both more raspy and villainous compared to Ayres' smoother and naturally higher voice. I'm speculating here but I'd also expect Tockar's version to lean more sinister (and possibly more alien) in sound whereas DSP's Freeza has (in my opinion) more of a bratty and petulant tone. DSP sounds noticeably more human than what I'm hearing in that clip from Tockar, which sounds closer to a higher pitched Half-Life or Galactic Overlord Tiramisu from Gintama. With all the transformations he has there might also be some digital pitch shifts that we aren't aware of, though Ocean avoided those for the most part in their older DB dubs.

[Robo4900]

Hard to say for the original series, never heard him talk about it, but it's certainly possible he's seen the older Canadian dubs of it.

I'm pretty sure he was actually in the original Z dubs as Moori.

Interestingly, Tockar did say he saw both Kai dubs, and that he really loved Ocean's version, which is pretty cool considering Drummond said in the Geekdom interview all he's seen of this dub was his own dialogue.

Yeah. I'm guessing Tockar recorded later than the rest of the cast, so he would've heard a more complete mix. Apparently Brian Drummond and Scott McNeil were both cast quite early, and recorded quite early.

I actually expect Tockar's Freeza to get more criticism from Linda Young fans because Chris Ayres fans were more accepting of Damon Mills when he occasionally stood in for Ayres in Super.

Yeah, but Damon Mills pretty much sounds just like Chris Ayes, so Ayres' fans can accept him as a stand-in for their favourite. Tockar's is totally different, so even though I'm sure Chris Ayres, if asked, will have nothing but respectful things to say, his fans will probably say "lol look how much this loser sucks. he's nothing like the real freeza."

Agh... I want this thing released or way or another. Even if it's an "accidental" leak. What is it with Canadian Dragon Ball that everything is all rare, hard to find, had quality, or just locked up in a dungeon/vault somewhere?

For the original dubs, it's just because for some reason AB Groupe never did DVDs back in the day. I still hold out hope for the original dubs to get proper DVDs someday, but who knows (I have been told that MangaUK wanted to include the original dubs on the DVDs in 2008, but because they weren't uncut, they couldn't do it). I'm pretty sure these days, you can find torrents of the original Canadian dubs in quite nice quality, though.

Here's a comparison I have saved of Derek Stephen Prince in the Bang Zoom dub.
It was rough around the edges but in his defence, he did start at an awkward point and the Bang Zoom dub didn't have the best direction. DSP admitted on social media that they wanted him to sound like Ayres when he first began but he did his own thing after his first episode which turned out to have more of a deranged slant to it. Overall I don't think there was much vision behind that production which is a shame as he has all the tools to be a good Freeza (you get a sense of it hearing his other roles such as Vexen), but I felt the circumstances of that particular dub hindered him.

Interesting!

I do wish they had better direction at Bang Zoom, and had had the chance to go on longer. It sounds like the production side really didn't care, almost like they just assumed it would be replaced by Funimation's version soon enough so there was no point in really bothering with much... And really, since it only lasted 27 episodes, they were frustratingly accurate with that attitude. :L

With all the transformations he has there might also be some digital pitch shifts that we aren't aware of, though Ocean avoided those for the most part in their older DB dubs.

Pitch shifts were always Funi's thing, and IMO mostly were just there to disguise the tiny number of actors they were using to dub the series originally, which then only stuck around later on because of tradition.

IIRC Ocean only ever used a pitch shift for Shen Long, and only in the dubs that were done under Funi and Pioneer.

[NitroEX]

Pitch shifts were always Funi's thing, and IMO mostly were just there to disguise the tiny number of actors they were using to dub the series originally, which then only stuck around later on because of tradition.

IIRC Ocean only ever used a pitch shift for Shen Long, and only in the dubs that were done under Funi and Pioneer.

Yeah, they didn't abuse it like Funi did but since Kai was made in a different era to Z with more sophisticated digital tools available it's possible there might've been some subtle tweaks here and there. It'd be very easy to make creative changes like that in post with modern software, but I wouldn't expect it to be as obvious as the early Funimation stuff, we probably wouldn't even be able to notice it tbh. Oh and Dave Pettitt's Black Star Shenron in the BW GT dub did have noticeable effects over his voice so Ocean hadn't completely done away with it post Funi.

[Robo4900]

Oh and Dave Pettitt's Black Star Shenron in the BW GT dub did have noticeable effects over his voice so Ocean hadn't completely done away with it post Funi.

Oh right, I forgot about that.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

The rumours about this dub being written off continue...

I'd take this all with a gigantic grain of salt, as we know it's still being shipped around, and there's no reason to suspect Ocean would have thrown in the towel.

[BootyCheeksJohnson]

It's a shame that the Ocean Kai dub never saw the light of day. I didn't grow up with the original Saban dub, (I wasn't born until 2000 and watched the Kai dub as a kid) but I still would like to see what this version could have done with the material for curiosity's sake. Who knows it could be good, like the Pioneer movie dubs, or it could be bad, like a lot of English dubbed Dragon Ball content.

[JamesDaSpaghettiTaco]

Do we actually know how many episodes of DBKAI Ocean dubbed, was it a few, did they do the entire thing, did they also do the final chapters? It's honestly pretty weird since there's no bad in releasing it right now.

[Arian]

Do we actually know how many episodes of DBKAI Ocean dubbed, was it a few, did they do the entire thing, did they also do the final chapters? It's honestly pretty weird since there's no bad in releasing it right now.

The first 98 episodes are in the books. TFC we have to assume wasn't dubbed but it could be if Kai 1.0 gets a TV deal, does well, and the network and/or toy company sponsoring it commissions more episodes.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Do we actually know how many episodes of DBKAI Ocean dubbed, was it a few, did they do the entire thing, did they also do the final chapters? It's honestly pretty weird since there's no bad in releasing it right now.

It's been well documented, and confirmed by the CRTC that Ocean dubbed all 98 episodes. Only part of the show Ocean didn't dub as of yet, is The Final Chapters.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Scott McNeil was asked at a con if they dubbed the Buu saga, and he said they didn't.

[MasenkoHA]

Scott McNeil was asked at a con if they dubbed the Buu saga, and he said they didn't.

I feel like this was a given. Why dub the Buu saga when they spent time and money dubbing 98 episodes that never got released?

[NitroEX]

Boo Kai was effectively sold as a separate series anyway, much like Super. Watever contracts they had in place for the original Kai wouldn't have automatically granted them permission to dub the second batch, even if they wanted to it probably wasn't that simple.