DragonBall Z Abridged

[Scsigs]

I'm sad they don't seem to be watching the dub anymore—it has a great line from Baby at the end of Episode 25, as he's meeting Goten face-to-face:

-----------------------

Baby: "Yes, I feel it now... You're energy signature is similar to that of Goku."

Goten: "What?! How do you know my father?!"

Baby: "Well... There's a twist! He's a boy, yet, he's your father! Yes, very strange, but... Hey, I'm not your average guy either."

-----------------------

For comparison, the Japanese is just something along the lines of "So, you're that runt's son... How interesting", then goes straight into the "I'm going to steal your body" spiel.

I'm assuming they do watch it still, they just didn't find any of the lines interesting. This seems to be a watchthrough of the JP version first, then they watch the dub to spot check it. Hell, they don't even establish that they watch the dub as well until a few videos in iirc. And even then, it's less often they'll show them watching the dub rather than the sub. They're going with the original vision for the series.

[Scsigs]

Dragon Ball GTFS Commentary | Episodes 28-29
https://youtu.be/SkWKOJp0lHc?si=A3HGlbYUuW4tm1yX

[BrolyLSSJ]

It's wild they can't continue the parodies due to the strikes.

[Scsigs]

Dragon Ball GTFS Commentary | Episodes 30-32
https://youtu.be/71Dl4ts6SUM?si=i9v_YyyfsL_fBEsF

I'll just say, I feel Kaiser's pain.

[FoolsGil]

There is quite a bit of dissonance with what Baby should be as a villain when the heroes aren't around, and what we actually see. Not saying it's necessarily a good thing, but as hive minds go he's definitely chill with his thrall. It is a shame the writers didn't do a full villain episode. I think it would be interesting, definitely in a mind fuck way if there was an episode Baby-Vegeta going shopping with Baby-Bra, then stopping by to officiate a tournament, watching his thralls basically fight him/each other, maybe on the way home he tries to rob himself at gunpoint! and then destroys the gun and takes himself to jail. And finally spends alone time with Baby-Bulma and she asks him about the Tuffle history, and he tells him/her everything! It would be insane, and maybe for the kids watching it'd be hella boring but it would be an episode worth getting an emmy, or the equivalent in Japan.

[Scsigs]

Dragon Ball GTFS Commentary | Episodes 33-35
https://youtu.be/77bb1UTGZNY?si=uMt893Izv-ZpEnwX

[AliTheZombie13]

"There's still five episodes of this?! FIVE EPISODES?!"

[Sshadow5001]

Oh my shit!...
https://youtu.be/28b1-0VhQt8?si=VfOaEb1DBMY38UAO

[Scsigs]

Dragon Ball GTFS Commentary | Episodes 36-37
https://youtu.be/g6YojXuu-IA?si=9fMysvakNCDM4G_u

Dragon Ball GTFS Commentary | Episodes 38-40
https://youtu.be/zw9we4LGwhA?si=_YQDPE2HkXdhsQb1

[AliTheZombie13]

You know, I wasn't going to say anything.
I was just gonna go, "Eh, it's okay, it's your opinion. You didn't like it and that's fine."

...But then they went and said. "Ugh, people like this scene? WHY???? WHY DO YOU LIKE THIS SCENE???? WHY DO YOU LIKE GT???"

And then people wonder why TFS is barely respected in this forum. If someone were to do the same thing they are doing right now to Dragon Ball Z, they would be called out for being too negative and nitpicky for no reason. Then again, Z being the more popular show and a heavy victim of nostalgia goggles might have something to do with that, but even then...

I swear, I have never seen someone get so upset over the Kamehameha x10 being called the Kamehameha x10. You don't see me complaining about the Shin-Kikoho, but you do you.

[Scsigs]

Dragon Ball GTFS Commentary | Episodes 41-43
https://youtu.be/vWUnlmjNung?si=EZNu_yU0hI16kDNd

[MasenkoHA]

Dragon Ball GTFS Commentary | Episodes 41-43
https://youtu.be/vWUnlmjNung?si=EZNu_yU0hI16kDNd

"Ki has intent now!"

Dragon Ball fans don't watch Dragon Ball indeed

[Scsigs]

You know, I wasn't going to say anything.
I was just gonna go, "Eh, it's okay, it's your opinion. You didn't like it and that's fine."

...But then they went and said. "Ugh, people like this scene? WHY???? WHY DO YOU LIKE THIS SCENE???? WHY DO YOU LIKE GT???"

And then people wonder why TFS is barely respected in this forum. If someone were to do the same thing they are doing right now to Dragon Ball Z, they would be called out for being too negative and nitpicky for no reason. Then again, Z being the more popular show and a heavy victim of nostalgia goggles might have something to do with that, but even then...

I assume you're talking about the Piccolo death scene? That scene is good on paper, but the writers didn't earn it. It relies heavily on you having watched DBZ or read the last 4-5 arcs of the manga. Yes, GT's a continuation of Z, but it's also a soft reboot...that then pivoted into working off continuity from the previous shows 16 episodes in because the writers lost confidence in what they were doing & Piccolo was in all of a few scenes in 1 episode before he died & got taken out of the fray pretty quickly. He should've shown back up during the Baby fight as support for Goku & had a good rematch with Gohan & Goten before dying. It would've been cool to see that rather than just Goku fighting, but GT doesn't like having its supporting cast doing much during big fights, so...

"Ki has intent now!"

Dragon Ball fans don't watch Dragon Ball indeed

Yeah, looking back at that line, that was dumb. Although it's really dumb that regular 17 randomly has sense-able ki now (which, he shouldn't. It was a plot point that most of the androids didn't in Z, but whatever), Ki has been shown multiple times since it was introduced to be shown to give some indication of what's going on. Hell, it was a plot point that Cell gave off multiple ki signatures because it confused everyone as to why they were sensing almost every one of their friends that god put into Cell. They even kept that in Abridged & embellished on it, for fuck's sake.

[MasenkoHA]

You know, I wasn't going to say anything.
I was just gonna go, "Eh, it's okay, it's your opinion. You didn't like it and that's fine."

...But then they went and said. "Ugh, people like this scene? WHY???? WHY DO YOU LIKE THIS SCENE???? WHY DO YOU LIKE GT???"

And then people wonder why TFS is barely respected in this forum. If someone were to do the same thing they are doing right now to Dragon Ball Z, they would be called out for being too negative and nitpicky for no reason. Then again, Z being the more popular show and a heavy victim of nostalgia goggles might have something to do with that, but even then...

I assume you're talking about the Piccolo death scene? That scene is good on paper, but the writers didn't earn it. It relies heavily on you having watched DBZ or read the last 4-5 arcs of the manga. Yes, GT's a continuation of Z, but it's also a soft reboot...that then pivoted into working off continuity from the previous shows 16 episodes in because the writers lost confidence in what they were doing & Piccolo was in all of a few scenes in 1 episode before he died & got taken out of the fray pretty quickly. He should've shown back up during the Baby fight as support for Goku & had a good rematch with Gohan & Goten before dying. It would've been cool to see that rather than just Goku fighting, but GT doesn't like having its supporting cast doing much during big fights, so...

But it's NOT a soft reboot. It's a continuation and you can't just ignore the previous series. Pretending that Dragon Ball Z didn't happen is ridiculous. We know Gohan and Piccolo's bond because of Dragon Ball Z. GT doesn't have to "earn" anything in that regard.

It worked off continuity from the prior shows since day uno. Goku is having the fight with Oob he wanted back in the ending of Z. The Pilaf Gang are back and discuss the series lore about how the ultimate dragon balls were created before Kami and Daimao split. Goku's adventure companions are his grand daughter and the son of his arch rival. The whole arc exists to go "member early Dragon Ball?

[AliTheZombie13]

I assume you're talking about the Piccolo death scene? That scene is good on paper, but the writers didn't earn it. It relies heavily on you having watched DBZ or read the last 4-5 arcs of the manga.

It's almost like GT is supposed to be a sequel to the Z anime or something. The writers don't have to earn my respect for Piccolo, because Piccolo had already earned it during Z. The fact GT is written by different people doesn't negate the fact that I already respect Piccolo and thought it was a good emotional send-off to the character I knew and respected. Could they have done more with Piccolo in GT? Absolutely. Does that make me like the scene less? Absolutely not.

What he says is logical. Dragon Balls caused damage, he feels responsible for said damage, he decided to end the Dragon Balls. It's not very different from Kami's musings at the end of the original.

Yes, GT's a continuation of Z, but it's also a soft reboot...that then pivoted into working off continuity from the previous shows 16 episodes in because the writers lost confidence in what they were doing & Piccolo was in all of a few scenes in 1 episode before he died & got taken out of the fray pretty quickly. He should've shown back up during the Baby fight as support for Goku & had a good rematch with Gohan & Goten before dying. It would've been cool to see that rather than just Goku fighting, but GT doesn't like having its supporting cast doing much during big fights, so...

1. GT is not a soft reboot, it's a sequel. Nothing in it makes me think, "This HAS to be set in a different universe from the anime's."
2. The fact the first 16 episodes bombed does not negate GT being a sequel.
3. GT possibly being cancelled and cut short and having the writers rush through their ideas because of fan backlash probably contributed to this.
4. Whataboutism. I like what we got. I don't waste my time musing about how it could be better and declare it bad just because I didn't get what I wanted.

There, I hope that answered your question of "Why do people like this scene."
Mind you, my comment wasn't made specifically because of the Piccolo scene alone, but because as GTFS says themselves. "We sound like ranting losers, but fuck it." It's really really negative, with witty comments that bear absurdity like "The Kamehameha x10 is a stupid name, because Kamehameha never had a power cap" like... what? Of all things to be offended by.

There is rarely a semblance of any positivity towards the show, they act as if you'll die by watching it.

[JulieYBM]

I assume you're talking about the Piccolo death scene? That scene is good on paper, but the writers didn't earn it. It relies heavily on you having watched DBZ or read the last 4-5 arcs of the manga.

It's almost like GT is supposed to be a sequel to the Z anime or something. The writers don't have to earn my respect for Piccolo, because Piccolo had already earned it during Z. The fact GT is written by different people doesn't negate the fact that I already respect Piccolo and thought it was a good emotional send-off to the character I knew and respected.

Dragon Ball GT Episode #40 is written by Maekawa Atsushi, who wrote thirteen episodes of Dragon Ball Z beginning in the Majin Buu arc, so technically-speaking, this episode is indeed written by one of the writers of Dragon Ball Z. Maekawa would go on to be the head writer of the back half of Dragon Ball GT and even wrote the final five episodes, so I think that it is very fitting that Maekawa wrote Episode #40, although I think that Matsui had she been back from maternity leave would have been a better choice.

[AliTheZombie13]

Dragon Ball GT Episode #40 is written by Maekawa Atsushi, who wrote thirteen episodes of Dragon Ball Z beginning in the Majin Buu arc, so technically-speaking, this episode is indeed written by one of the writers of Dragon Ball Z. Maekawa would go on to be the head writer of the back half of Dragon Ball GT and even wrote the final five episodes, so I think that it is very fitting that Maekawa wrote Episode #40, although I think that Matsui had she been back from maternity leave would have been a better choice.

Oh god, this is one of the guys who added the creepy Pan shit to the episodes.
No wonder the last half of GT sucked ass lol

[JulieYBM]

Dragon Ball GT Episode #40 is written by Maekawa Atsushi, who wrote thirteen episodes of Dragon Ball Z beginning in the Majin Buu arc, so technically-speaking, this episode is indeed written by one of the writers of Dragon Ball Z. Maekawa would go on to be the head writer of the back half of Dragon Ball GT and even wrote the final five episodes, so I think that it is very fitting that Maekawa wrote Episode #40, although I think that Matsui had she been back from maternity leave would have been a better choice.

Oh god, this is one of the guys who added the creepy Pan shit to the episodes.
No wonder the last half of GT sucked ass lol

He also wrote the weird transphobic shit in Episode #51.

[Vegard Aune]

But it's NOT a soft reboot. It's a continuation and you can't just ignore the previous series. Pretending that Dragon Ball Z didn't happen is ridiculous. We know Gohan and Piccolo's bond because of Dragon Ball Z. GT doesn't have to "earn" anything in that regard.

It worked off continuity from the prior shows since day uno. Goku is having the fight with Oob he wanted back in the ending of Z. The Pilaf Gang are back and discuss the series lore about how the ultimate dragon balls were created before Kami and Daimao split. Goku's adventure companions are his grand daughter and the son of his arch rival. The whole arc exists to go "member early Dragon Ball?

Thing is though, even if it's still part of the same series, that doesn't change that Piccolo had been way, way out of focus for ages at this point. If a character has been completely absent for several seasons only to come back just for a dramatic death scene... Yeah that is indeed kinda weird.

[Scsigs]

But it's NOT a soft reboot. It's a continuation and you can't just ignore the previous series. Pretending that Dragon Ball Z didn't happen is ridiculous. We know Gohan and Piccolo's bond because of Dragon Ball Z. GT doesn't have to "earn" anything in that regard.

It worked off continuity from the prior shows since day uno. Goku is having the fight with Oob he wanted back in the ending of Z. The Pilaf Gang are back and discuss the series lore about how the ultimate dragon balls were created before Kami and Daimao split. Goku's adventure companions are his grand daughter and the son of his arch rival. The whole arc exists to go "member early Dragon Ball?

I meant "soft reboot" as continuing off the previous continuity & established characters, but having a new status quo & taking place some time later to hopefully allow a new audience to latch on to the franchise by not having to worry much about the previous stories. I consider it in the same league as Ben 10: Alien Force to Classic Ben 10 in that respect. Or even Ben 10 Omniverse to the UAF era. Those are sequel series to the previous ones, but are stylistically & tonally different as to allow for a fresh feel. The first few episodes of GT definitely work off prior continuity...by skipping to the end of Goku training Uub to get to the new story & using Pilaf & co to bullshit the Black Star Dragon Balls into existence & kickstart the main plot of the arc. Once the space shit gets going, you don't need to understand much about the prior continuity. That was the whole point with going back to the style & tone of early DB after years of the Z style. Hell, withing Dragon Ball itself, the shift from the 23rd World Tournament to the Saiyan Arc was a soft reboot in terms of tone & world building. That's part of why Toei made Z rather than continuing the original Dragon Ball branding (on top of other reasons, I know).

It's almost like GT is supposed to be a sequel to the Z anime or something. The writers don't have to earn my respect for Piccolo, because Piccolo had already earned it during Z. The fact GT is written by different people doesn't negate the fact that I already respect Piccolo and thought it was a good emotional send-off to the character I knew and respected. Could they have done more with Piccolo in GT? Absolutely. Does that make me like the scene less? Absolutely not.

What he says is logical. Dragon Balls caused damage, he feels responsible for said damage, he decided to end the Dragon Balls. It's not very different from Kami's musings at the end of the original.

The problem is that Piccolo's death makes sense & I don't mind it because of how it functions in the narrative, but he only comes back to die after getting his ass handed to him by Baby-possessed Gohan & Goten. Hardly the dignity & respect earned by Piccolo at that point, eh? Narratively, it feels very hollow due to the execution. The fact that it hinges on you having that pre-established respect you have for Piccolo from the previous shows or the manga is a big flaw. Imagine from the point of view of a kid in 1996 whose first DB series was GT. What respect do they have for Piccolo, or context do they have as to why his death is sad & the characters feel sad he's sacrificing himself? When part of the mission statement of the series originally was to be more open to a general audience like the older DB arcs were, it works against what the writers set out to do. The series started out wanting to be a fresh start to the franchise after a decade of ongoing stories that were increasingly hard to get into because of how long it had been going on & how much prior continuity there was to go back & read through or watch (not easy to do in 90s Japan because Toei only released the films on VHS & laserdisc at the time), only to pivoting to being a true sequel series to the previous ones & trying to continue the stories from them.
It brings about the contradictions of GT & why it actively fights against itself writing-wise. Another series I can easily compare it to is Doctor Who. The Chibnall era soft rebooted the show with a series of episodes where you don't need to have much familiarity of the previous material to get into, only for the next series to pivot due to longtime fan backlash that it started throwing all the continuity it could at you to try to appease them. Nevermind the fact that Series 11 wasn't bad due to a lack of overarching continuity, more so it just being meh at best with most of what it did.

1. GT is not a soft reboot, it's a sequel. Nothing in it makes me think, "This HAS to be set in a different universe from the anime's."
2. The fact the first 16 episodes bombed does not negate GT being a sequel.
3. GT possibly being cancelled and cut short and having the writers rush through their ideas because of fan backlash probably contributed to this.
4. Whataboutism. I like what we got. I don't waste my time musing about how it could be better and declare it bad just because I didn't get what I wanted.

There, I hope that answered your question of "Why do people like this scene."
Mind you, my comment wasn't made specifically because of the Piccolo scene alone, but because as GTFS says themselves. "We sound like ranting losers, but fuck it." It's really really negative, with witty comments that bear absurdity like "The Kamehameha x10 is a stupid name, because Kamehameha never had a power cap" like... what? Of all things to be offended by.

There is rarely a semblance of any positivity towards the show, they act as if you'll die by watching it.

1. I already explained to the other guy what I meant by "soft reboot."
2. I never said it did. My point is to point out how badly the episodes were turning out & the writers themselves felt that, then 1 of them admitted to it in an interview post hoc. I think that can really show how bad the series was when the writers weren't even confident in what they were producing. And it shows.
3. Yep. We know that GT didn't perform well merchandise-wise at the time & that's partly due to there being no companion manga, but also that it didn't do too well at drawing in the newer, younger audience they wanted to hop on the DB train. It says something when Super did better 20 years later because they learned what not to do from GT.
4. Good for you. I personally like to focus on what I didn't like about a piece of media I've watched in order to figure it out & offer suggestions & constructive criticism on how it could've been done much better in my opinion. Like, I could accept GT for what it is...if it were just better-written. I'm 1 of the people who says GT is "good ideas, poor execution."

I mean, you're focusing on minor comments like that when the whole review series has them also paying compliments to the things they liked as well as talking about the negatives. Lani himself says he's accepted that GT isn't good, but appreciates it anyways. Kaiser himself also went in wanting to give GT another chance because he hadn't seen it in years in the original Japanese dub, which they've been watching. And if you don't agree with their opinions, that's fine & they can accept it. Hell, they let Kirran have the spotlight with Super Saiyan 4 for 1 of their DBcembers when they were ranking transformations because he's a GT fan. I think they can be generous to the good things GT produced when they wanna be.

To also address that point, though. Kamehameha hasn't had multipliers itself being applied to it in DB or Z or even Super iirc. It's an attack that works on ki output being poured into it. Thus, it doesn't need multipliers applied to it. If you do a Kamehameha & if you're strong, you'll get a strong variant of it like what happened when Goku did it the first time & he produced a pretty powerful one, leaving Roshi flabbergasted. The only multipliers that have been applied relating to it is during Goku's beam clash with Vegeta when he used the Kaioken & applied a x4 multiplier in order to force his body to produce more ki at a time where he needed it to overpower Vegeta's Gallick Gun. Thus, Goku calling it a x10 Kamehameha is redundant. His SS4 form should've been enough to power the attack up passed its previous level beforehand, no need to put a multiplier to it. Goku is a combat genius & has used that movie a lot of times over the years since learning it. He would know what it's about by then in his life.
That's I think the angle they were coming at that from. If you find that nitpicky, or it doesn't make sense, then that's whatever, but there IS a logical basis for that line of thinking.

To state my own opinions of GT for a second...
I haven't seen the entirety of the first 16 episodes. I've watched the first few, but after they blast off into space, I skipped to 16 to start the Baby stuff. All I know I was missing in terms of context was the stuff about the machine mutants. That's about it. I hate the way the series starts with regressing Goku into a child. I get why they did it, but it was a poor decision because it feels like narrative regression rather than progression. Whether you wanna take Totally Not Mark's opinion into account for why Goku growing up was a good thing when he cited something Toriyama said to I think his editor about Goku having longer limbs would lead to more interesting poses & fights into account or not, I'm going to say that narratively, I don't see any real big pros to the decision. The fact that they gave Goku SS4 to try to correct for this is telling that even they knew it was a bad idea. Pan is also a sticking point for me. I hate her in this series. She is nothing but an utter waste of potential. Never gets much in the way of development of her latent abilities (she's Gohan's kid, shouldn't she have similar latent power or something at least?) & I hate her personality. A whiny brat who treats the people around her like shit half the time when she's not being used as a damsel in distress. The English VA doesn't do her any favors with her grating ass voice either. They also tend to mix in filler materials from the DB anime shows no matter how much they don't make sense to as well in spots, so good luck saying this is the true canon of post DB manga/Z anime DB if you want it to be that. Also, they threw in Cooler which...doesn't make any sense either.
The Baby arc is mostly fine. I like the idea of the Tuffles having 1 last ditch effort to get revenge on the Saiyans like Baby & I like the narrative progressions we get from it. I always am thoroughly entertained by him taking over everyone's bodies slowly & then taking over the Earth. It honestly has so many dark vibes to it & I like it. I hate the clear filler that is that shitty board game with a passion. It serves no narrative purpose that Goku just being unconscious on the Kai planet couldn't have achieved & it's boring & frustrating. The last bit of the arc isn't that great either. As soon as the SS4 Goku VS Great Ape Baby stuff starts, it overstays its welcome & I start to not like it. The ending of Baby being taken out like a punk bitch is also a waste of a truly satisfying ending of him. Hate the execution of the Piccolo death scene, which I've already explained why.
The Super 17 arc was a waste of time, made no sense, & I don't like what they did with 17 as a character. I prefer the development he got in Super since he at least wasn't regressed into a mindless goon for Gero through a doppelganger from Hell, then fused with him. It honestly came off like a way to start off the Shadow Dragons arc more than anything. You could replace it with some other crisis & it'd achieve the same effect. Why did 17 have sense-able ki? Not explained. How did Gero & Miyu make another 17 in Hell? Who cares? How could they open up a portal between dimensions? Bullshit energy magic.
To explain that last thing, yes, I'm aware that ki allows the characters to to a multitude of things. The major problem is that I fail to grasp how using it like they do can open up a portal to travel through dimensions. It comes off like they just wanted to rip off Fusion Reborn & do it worse, tbh. Goku & Kibitoshin can teleport. I really don't see why someone couldn't have done something similar.
The Shadow Dragons is...fine, I guess. Similar to the Baby arc, I like the concept. Most of the dragons are...really dumb, though. The only good ones are Eis & Nuova because they at least have interesting personalities. Syn/Omega is very generic in his personality, though. Nothing but a wall for the heroes to overcome. Very boring. Love SS4 Vegeta & SS4 Gogeta. Hate that Goten & Trunks don't fuse into an adult Gotenks to provide them back-up. Even if he didn't do much, having Gotenks enter the fray would've added to the fight & been a nice bit of fanservice. Also, like how Vegeta's mellowed out & matured in this series. Something his current Super incarnation could learn from.
The ending I'm...very mixed on. I like the feels & feeling of finality, but I don't know how to feel about how the series leaves off. Not saying the Super anime did any better, but it was part of an ongoing mix of DB productions, meaning I'm not surprised it ended when or how it did. Especially when the manga kept going for several more arcs.

So, yeah. I think you can guess that I'm more on Kaiser & Lani's side for this shit. GT isn't good overall, tbh. Has good elements, but I'm constantly let down by the executions of the ideas in it. I prefer Super's takes on a lot of things as a sequel series, warts & all.

Thing is though, even if it's still part of the same series, that doesn't change that Piccolo had been way, way out of focus for ages at this point. If a character has been completely absent for several seasons only to come back just for a dramatic death scene... Yeah that is indeed kinda weird.

This. He comes back for 1 episode to get jobbed to show how much of a threat Baby is, sits out the entirety of Baby taking over the Earth & his fight with Goku, then comes back for 1 more episode to die over a dozen episodes later. I just want my favorite characters to do something of worth if they're gonna die afterwards. Have Piccolo take part in the fight against Baby is all I suggest. I don't see how that's wrong to want.