Kaboom wrote:Mecha Freeza - 4,500,000
Kaboom wrote:King Cold - 2,500,000
IMO, King Cold and Suppressed Mecha Freeza should be equals. Or rivals. Or on par with each or something. If you look at all the specific quotes about the two, they are clearly grouped together in statements. Also, after Freeza blasts Trunks, King Cold says we did it Freeza, which I feel is just another sign
of Suppressed Mecha Freeza ~ King Cold...
IMO, Suppressed Mecha Freeza's statements are really for us to determine how strong King Cold is. We know King Cold >>>> Piccolo/Vegeta. They are clearly in fear
of the current power they fear. So at minimum these two guys should be showcasing 10 million or so. That should be a minimum...
We also know that Freeza can get way stronger... So Organic Freeza >> Suppressed Mecha Freeza...
We never see Mecha power up, but I think my explanation how Freeza's defeat at the hands
of a Saiyan psychologically messed him up and he went through a temporary moment
of insanity. As we see, he actually sees Goku. The guy is hallucinating...
Freeza's blast against Trunks mirrors his final blast against Goku, both blasts which made no sense, and even Freeza in a calm logical mind that he normally exists in, would realize those blasts could not hurt a Super Saiyan. One time he was really weak and living off
of borrowed ki, and the other time he was way weaker than his Organic Body's Full Power. Which had a rough time with a Super Saiyan when he was fully healthy and at full power. So we know Freeza has exhibited extreme intelligence in several cases, so this should be looked as , as a moment
of insanity, similar to Cell using the psuedo USSJ2 form against Kid Gohan, while Cell already knew its uselessness.
Which brings me to my next point. My rule that I created. Always assume full power, now I don't expect you to accept it right away, but try it out. AT is ridicolously consistent, always in a scary way. He will always let you know if the guy wasn't at full power, but in a serious fight, we should always assume full power...
Freeza makes it seem that if he is having some trouble, King Cold is strong enough to turn the fight in Freeza's fight heavily, and easily beat the Super Saiyan... You have King Cold at 100 million, which I have as well. But like I said, if you assume full power, and respect the constant grouping
of the two, we have some conclusive evidence behind it...
Suppressed Mecha Freeza ~ King Cold ~ Way Weaker than Organic Freeza, Yet strong enough to help Mecha Freeza against an opponent a bit stronger than him. 100 mil seems right on the nose, it's just that IMO, it makes a lot more sense for Cold to be at full power throughout the entire segment...
But that's something you are going to have to try out.
Suppressed Mecha Freeza ~ King Cold >>>>> Piccolo / Vegeta , is definitely implied IMO.. But we can get some quotes going if you want...Trunks does also seem to put some effort in when he slices Freeza, and he does amp up his ki a bit to kill Cold. Also, Trunks is begging for Freeza to come with it at full power, I really don't see Trunks being soft like Goku, as he's stated not to be, I think Trunks should be going all out, he's a cold blooded assassin at this segment
of the manga... And he forces Yardrat Goku to fight at a level that supercedes his impression
of how strong Goku would have been. The major suppression
of Trunks is an issue I feel highly unlikely. But it's just another POV at the end
of the day...
Kaboom wrote:Piccolo - 5,000,000
Vegeta - 2,500,000
Gohan - 225,000
This is a suprising move by you , well at least to me. Piccolo does challenge Vegeta, who allows Goku to " break it up " lol. Nice to see you on board with that...
Kaboom wrote:Piccolo - 145,000,000
Piccolo not lacking in confidence, which I know you disagree with, and the possibility that Piccolo actually got too strong for the androids to be the ones they were supposed to meet heavily suggest Piccolo is above SSJ Trunks, Imo. But I do see you are working yourself around that with the logic that Trunks was suppressing. But like I said, Trunks forces Goku to fight at a level that exceeds what he thought Goku was capable
of. I think Piccolo gotta be picking up on that a little bit somewhere. But at least you have some defense options avaliable. I don't agree, but a lot
of the theories coming out are pretty new, I remember when I first got into DB, hardly anyone looked at Piccolo anywhere near Freeza, and that seems to be gone now. Maybe one day. We will see...
Kaboom wrote:Trunks has only been in the past for 8 months, with nobody to train with. That said, this seems like a more than generous little increase for him.
I think it was 8 months for the first trip, and the second trip was said to have taken 3 years by the narrator. Also, it would be kind
of hard for Trunks to travel to a past that hadn't happened yet, but that will be getting all scientificky lol...
Kaboom wrote:Android 17 - 295,000,000
Android 18 - 275,000,000
Android 16 - 335,000,000
Kaboom wrote:Piccolo - 145,000,000
Re-Merged - 300,000,000
Worn out - 265,000,000
Ever notice the 17 vs Piccolo fight? How jacked up Piccolo is? He's a damn beast huh? One thing I picked up was that Piccolo = 17 strength, but it does appear that 17 is a bit faster. Piccolo makes a note
of it, and 17 seems a bit leaner
of course as well. I think this is one
of the rare circumstances when one is not as balanced as the other. I'm not sure who is off balance, but IMO it would probably be Piccolo, totally assuming because he's jacked. Nothing serious, just pointing it out see what your POV on that is... I'm thinking that 17 may be more balanced, not to sure. We do start to see Piccolo's stamina become an issue by the time Cell arrives though... Anyway...
I would really like to see Piccolo W/weights posted here. Seldom used in many power charts, but it's a great for perspective on the gap between the androids / cell pre / and the ssjs...
Piccolo W/weights rivals BOTH 17 and 18. Now, Cell is specifically left out
of this equation. Coupled with Piccolo's utter confidence in defeating Cell even after regenerating, we are talking about a bit
of space... Either way, I feel it is good to add that, you probably think I'm nitpicking, not trying to be , and I don't know why I like to breakdown your list? Your pretty much the only guy I do this for, not that my POV is better or anything, but just good to here someone like me who is so critical, and has done so many lists, show you how I get around things and work things in, it's always good to know what others are doing to fix situations. If you don't like me doing breakdowns like this, just let me know and I'll stop...
Kaboom wrote:Imperfect Cell - 215,000,000
+Humans - 330,000,000
Imperfect Cell Pre is grouped together with Piccolo as both having absurdly large ki by Vegeta. 16 lets us know Piccolo > Cell. Either way, for Vegeta to give compliments like that, which he rarely does, would definitley suggest the two absurdly larger powers > vegeta...
Vegeta goes on to say, the legendary SSJ is being surpassed left and right , it pisses me off, doesn't it piss you off too Kakkarot?
Which seems he is grouping people together here, so I ask, if he felt the need to group Piccolo and Cell together previously, do you think he is making that statement, and leaving out Cell only specifically? I think both Cell/Piccolo are grouped together for a reason by Vegeta, and seperated by 16...
I think
Piccolo ~ 17 > 18 >= ~ Piccolo W/Weights > Cell > SSJ Vegeta
Now not saying there should be huge spacing here, but I can't see Vegeta being stronger than Cell . He does notice that Vegeta has gotten stronger, and nothing really suggests that Vegeta wouldn't be somewhat
of a threat, but I think everything points to Cell > vegeta. Not by a huge margin though... This kind
of forces your numbers up I would suspect, but if you put Piccolo W/Weights at like 270 or so, and put Cell at say 245 or something, that would work with your tight spacing, just make it...You probably disagree, but just wanted to see your response to that...
I see you covered yourself with Piccolo Worn out 265, Cell 330. But really, do you think a 330 power will make a 300 power open there mouth in absolute awe like that. Piccolo's jaw straight up dropped when he felt Cell's ki. 17
of all people acknowledges that 16 and Cell are superior to him, which is the last thing in the world he would like to do. I just don't see 30 million cutting it here, I know you don't work off
of that by percentages much, but IMO, this is one
of the bigger spacing is the entire segment, that doesn't get much play really. I think the gap between 17 and 16 is highly underrated, but just another pov...
Kaboom wrote:Semiperfect - 450,000,000
Full-Power - 500,000,000
Nice to see you make a noticable change between the two... Would really like to see Cell absorbing the androids by addition at minimum at least. But seeing how you maintain only a 30 mil gap between 17 and 16, I can see why you don't even have Initial Semi double 16, even though he straight up tanks his punch and one shots him into oblivion ... But, I don't know, you are working off a different scale then me, but the biggest spacing in the entire Androids Saga would be IMO, Semi > 16 , Imperfect > 17 , Vegeta > 19 Post . Initial Sick Goku > 19 Pre... These four issues should have ample spacing, and probably similarly spaced...
Well that's all I can go from for now. Now what kind
of scale are you using? Your def not working by percentages, you just work by numerical spacing? I find your spacing awfully tight in most circumstances, almost to a point were I feel like your forcing the issue. I'm all for conservative spacing, but I mean if Vegeta/Reecome at nearly a 75% gap shows one thing, and then we see fights that are even more blown out than that, shouldn't we use the manga's examples as a base to guide our scale? Anyway, good stuff man...
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