Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Grand Marshal 1]

How strong (and by extension how relevant to the story) do you believe that Buu will be both in the anime and the manga? So in the anime Buu trained and became 'Fit Buu' for a while, indicating an increase in power and speed. Also in the anime, Buu is known to be able to empower himself through rage.

Then in the manga we saw that he can utilize god ki/powers without the need to fully morph into the Grand Supreme Kai. At that point he was defeating the same Moro who was trouble for SSB tier characters. And after the entire arc, he is seen to not remember what he accomplished as the Great Lord of Lords.

So my question is, will the anime exploit this and give Buu permanent 'god powers' post the arc (assuming it actually gets animated).

How strong would a Fit Buu with the golden aura around him and a rage boost would be compared to Blue tier characters? I mean right now the scale for Goku and Vegeta is well beyond Blue tier and Buu is the only one currently capable of bridging the gap and entering that realm of power? Would you want to see a 'God Buu' (Fit Buu + god ki)?

Kinda wild of a question, but one I'm personally interested in. Buu's revitalized potential can be exploited massively (ofc until Uub appears).

In typical Toyo fashion, Daio Kaoishin's power doesn't make sense in the manga. He was defeating Moro without his god powers (Since they are in Oob) yet he couldn't do anything agaisnt Buff Evil Boo so Good Boo being that strong using his power makes no sense at all.

Hopefully Toei will fix this and as you said, Boo is stated to grow stronger in the anime by rage so they are half way there.

Speaking of which, was it stated that all of Dai Kaioshin's god powers transferred to Kid Buu? I was under the impression that once Buu awakened his part of the Grand Supreme Kai's power, he also unlocked a tiny bit of god power (which could probably explain the plothole of why Buu was resistant to Moro's magic, despite not sharing many characteristics with his original counterparts in terms of abilities/physiology).

I was questioning this panel here where he seems to channel said hidden 'god powers'.

[The Undying]

In typical Toyo fashion, Daio Kaoishin's power doesn't make sense in the manga. He was defeating Moro without his god powers (Since they are in Oob) yet he couldn't do anything agaisnt Buff Evil Boo so Good Boo being that strong using his power makes no sense at all.

*sigh*

The manga specifically credits Boo's advantage over Moro as a combination of Boo tapping into his latent potential (due to Dai Kaioshin's memories) and Boo's immunity to Moro's absorption.

Moro's absorption is the only reason he could contend with the Saiyans. Chapter 49 Moro is said to be weaker than Blue Goku/Vegeta, despite being stronger than the Moro who fought Boo a chapter ago.

From a power scaling perspective, there's nothing inherently nonsensical about this. Dai Kaioshin's (non-godly) power was added to Boo's power, which is enough to pose problems for a foe who was already several magnitudes weaker than SSB. But because Boo's energy couldn't be absorbed, his performance was better than that of Goku and Vegeta's.

Also, Dai Kaioshin was absorbed by Buff Pure Boo. That doesn't make him weaker; it implies the exact opposite, and it's even said that the full scope of his non-godly strength wasn't previously accessible to Good Boo. There's nothing to "fix".

[ZombieVito]

How strong (and by extension how relevant to the story) do you believe that Buu will be both in the anime and the manga? So in the anime Buu trained and became 'Fit Buu' for a while, indicating an increase in power and speed. Also in the anime, Buu is known to be able to empower himself through rage.

Then in the manga we saw that he can utilize god ki/powers without the need to fully morph into the Grand Supreme Kai. At that point he was defeating the same Moro who was trouble for SSB tier characters. And after the entire arc, he is seen to not remember what he accomplished as the Great Lord of Lords.

So my question is, will the anime exploit this and give Buu permanent 'god powers' post the arc (assuming it actually gets animated).

How strong would a Fit Buu with the golden aura around him and a rage boost would be compared to Blue tier characters? I mean right now the scale for Goku and Vegeta is well beyond Blue tier and Buu is the only one currently capable of bridging the gap and entering that realm of power? Would you want to see a 'God Buu' (Fit Buu + god ki)?

Kinda wild of a question, but one I'm personally interested in. Buu's revitalized potential can be exploited massively (ofc until Uub appears).

In typical Toyo fashion, Daio Kaoishin's power doesn't make sense in the manga. He was defeating Moro without his god powers (Since they are in Oob) yet he couldn't do anything agaisnt Buff Evil Boo so Good Boo being that strong using his power makes no sense at all.

Hopefully Toei will fix this and as you said, Boo is stated to grow stronger in the anime by rage so they are half way there.

Speaking of which, was it stated that all of Dai Kaioshin's god powers transferred to Kid Buu? I was under the impression that once Buu awakened his part of the Grand Supreme Kai's power, he also unlocked a tiny bit of god power (which could probably explain the plothole of why Buu was resistant to Moro's magic, despite not sharing many characteristics with his original counterparts in terms of abilities/physiology).

I was questioning this panel here where he seems to channel said hidden 'god powers'.

Even if the Dai Kaioshin retained a small portion of his god power the fact remains that he was stated to be weaker than South Kaioshin so he is weaker than Pure Boo.

No way is Dai Kaioshin + manga Good Boo anywhere near god level. That's Toyo nonsense.

Toei can fix this thankfully by saying Boo grew stronger by rage. He's already base tier and far stronger than Gotenks thanks to his training for the ToP so it's a start.

[Hugo Boss]

I think the most difficult part of Grand Kaioshin’s story to make sense is that his god power is apparently enough to feed Goku back to Ultra Instinct, and yet that same power didn’t warrant his victory against the evil Boo and Moro millions of years ago. (In Moro’s case, he had to use a very powerful sealing technique).

The good Boo’s performance against Moro is somewhat justified by his latent potential being released by Grand Kaioshin and not suppressed like it was before. So, he would be the strongest Boo ever anyway. Also, while SSGod Vegeta isn’t immune to Moro’s magic, he had the higher battle power. SSBlue was only such a step forward that even the ordinary level of magic wasn’t enough. It was required their energy to be taken away.

[The Undying]

I think the most difficult part of Grand Kaioshin’s story to make sense is that his god power is apparently enough to feed Goku back to Ultra Instinct, and yet that same power didn’t warrant his victory against the evil Boo and Moro millions of years ago. (In Moro’s case, he had to use a very powerful sealing technique)

Dai Kaioshin's godly power was implied to have been unusable by the time he fought Boo due to that power occupying the seal on Moro. It must have remained tied to Dai Kaioshin, nonetheless, since Pure Boo would later inherit it after splitting from Good Boo.

As for his fight against Moro, the implication is that his magic was too much for them to handle and that they likely had trouble circumventing it, though Dai Kaioshin may have actually superseded him in battle power.

The good Boo’s performance against Moro is somewhat justified by his latent potential being released by Grand Kaioshin and not suppressed like it was before.

Just to add to this, there's no reason to presume Dai Kaioshin or South Kaioshin were ever drastically, if at all, weaker than Pure Boo. Boo doesn't usually go to the trouble of absorbing other beings unless those beings are either around as strong as or far stronger than himself.

If you combine those powers (at their fullest) with Good Boo's, it's not remotely unbelievable that he was able to give Chapter 48 Moro - the same Moro far below Blue in raw strength and possibly beneath even God - a run for his money.

[Grand Marshal 1]

So, the main question, can Buu attain God ki or not? Not talking about the power he can awaken, but if he can use god ki instead of normal ki, now that the Grand Supreme Kai 'resides' actively within his body (no matter whether he morphs in the Great Lord or not). That is my main question. And if he can gain access to god ki, will he actually use it? Will we see Buu get an actual perma boost?

[Thani]

Considering that Good Buu has South inside him, he should, yes. Dai's godly power (aka god ki) went to Uub, so it's more like Dai was using Buu's inate power to battle Moro when he did. I think Toyo probably forgot that Good Buu is essentially Dai Kaioshin + South Kaioshin inside a pink bubblegum demon thing - even if he did get weaker after Pure Buu spit him out.

[Magnificent Ponta]

Considering that Good Buu has South inside him

Does he? The first thing the Evil Buu does, once Good Buu is removed from him, is demonstrate characteristics and power of the South Kaioshin. Why would we conclude that South Kaioshin is still in the Good Buu?

[Thani]

Considering that Good Buu has South inside him

Does he? The first thing the Evil Buu does, once Good Buu is removed from him, is demonstrate characteristics and power of the South Kaioshin. Why would we conclude that South Kaioshin is still in the Good Buu?

Mostly because if Pure Buu had South, he would remain the Buff Buu we saw. What made Evil/Super Buu what he was, instead of Pure/Kid Buu was the presence of the Good Buu, except the bulk of the power was taken by his evil self.

But I guess you're right in that there's no explicit confirmation of that.

[shadd21]

Spoiler:

https://twitter.com/v_jump/status/13499 ... 68257?s=21

Translation: Goku who completed the secret of selfishness and became the strongest human being in this universe. A warrior who surpasses Goku was about to be born in the 7th universe ...! !!

[Hugo Boss]

I think it’s only natural that the story moves in the direction of stronger opponents, though I have yet to see how Ultra Instinct can be surpassed.

On a side note, this hints at Goku being stronger than Broly, at least, but not quite stronger than the gods.

[GodVegetto91]

I really hate these spoilers about Vegeta! Why does he have to be so damn egotistical and prideful that it’s holding him back! Just take the damn Ultra Instinct already and follow in Goku’s footsteps. Stop being so egotistical and dump your pride. No one cares about it anymore. Pride only holds one back and never gets you anywhere. If Vegeta goes his own route he will never surpass Kakarot, unless maybe he spends the rest of his life on Planet Yardrat ofcourse, and is allowed to achieve insanely high levels of Spirit Control. He NEEDS Ultra Instinct!

[Koitsukai]

And to think people where putting Broly over UI...

[Yuji]

And to think people where putting Broly over UI...

Perhaps this also retroactively confirms that Goku wasn't stronger than Broly before with the ToP Ultra Instinct.

It seems like the phrasing "human being" (likely mortal, "ningen") in "this universe" makes it impossible to compare MUI Goku to Jiren or Beerus as well.

[FishermanJohnWest]

It all depends on Beerus people

These statements are creditless

If UI Goku ain't Beerus level, then he ain't Broly or fusion level, and unless they bring up something contradicting Goku statement, Broly power still stands where it is

And I find it funny how people denied Broly sources with a passion but quickly jump to accepting anything that fuels their agenda

[Koitsukai]

And to think people where putting Broly over UI...

Perhaps this also retroactively confirms that Goku wasn't stronger than Broly before with the ToP Ultra Instinct.

It seems like the phrasing "human being" (likely mortal, "ningen") in "this universe" makes it impossible to compare MUI Goku to Jiren or Beerus as well.

I don't think it necessarily means that. Goku didn't have UI during the movie, he had only accessed it once, it was just a "power" he got a glimpse of for like a minute or two. I wouldn't count UI as part of Goku's skillset - and what it means- until now.

[GodVegetto91]

It all depends on Beerus people

These statements are creditless

If UI Goku ain't Beerus level, then he ain't Broly or fusion level, and unless they bring up something contradicting Goku statement, Broly power still stands where it is

And I find it funny how people denied Broly sources with a passion but quickly jump to accepting anything that fuels their agenda

These latest spoilers seem to imply the exact opposite of what you and I have been saying for these past few months.. Since they are using the word “Ningen” very clearly, thus refering to UI Goku as the strongest “Human Being” or “Mortal” in the universe, very clearly excludes Beerus!

BUT! It doesn’t exclude Broly...

So purely based off of these spoilers (which may very well be contradicted later again in the story!!!)

Beerus >>>>>>>>>>> UI Goku > Broly.

But I’m not on that side just yet! I will await further evidence!

You know my side (the same as yours.)

But I’m always open minded to change.

[Yuji]

I think it's pretty clear at this point that Beerus > Moro-Merus = MUI Goku > Moro-73 > Broly (> Jiren?) from the information the story and additional material have granted us. New information always takes precedent over the old, so Broly being as strong or stronger than Beerus has been contradicted multiple times already by the story itself and this new promotional material.

[TheSaiyanGod]

I really hate these spoilers about Vegeta! Why does he have to be so damn egotistical and prideful that it’s holding him back! Just take the damn Ultra Instinct already and follow in Goku’s footsteps. Stop being so egotistical and dump your pride. No one cares about it anymore. Pride only holds one back and never gets you anywhere. If Vegeta goes his own route he will never surpass Kakarot, unless maybe he spends the rest of his life on Planet Yardrat ofcourse, and is allowed to achieve insanely high levels of Spirit Control. He NEEDS Ultra Instinct!

Vegeta has been following Goku's footsteps for more than a decade. I don't see it as a problem that he tries to take a different path this time, especially since the whole Spirit Control and Yardrat thing was great. In fact, I preferred Goku a lot more than that, his focus was also on the strongest warriors in the universe and not exclusively on his rival.

It would be cool to see Ultra Instinct Vegeta, but at the same time it wouldn't be any different than all the other times he got the same transformations as Goku.

I think it's pretty clear at this point that Beerus > Moro-Merus = MUI Goku > Moro-73 > Broly (> Jiren?) from the information the story and additional material have granted us. New information always takes precedent over the old, so Broly being as strong or stronger than Beerus has been contradicted multiple times already by the story itself and this new promotional material.

Yeah, it was already implied that Moro 73 was the strongest villain, and MUI Goku matched an even stronger version of him (Merus). The VJUMP statement only reinforces this.

[Grand Marshal 1]

Goddamn Beerus a GoD boutta appear to be stronger than trainee angels with full control of UI. Very logical stuff How didnt we all think of that. Maybe that stupid Whis is weaker than Beerus.