Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Thani]

It doesn't really matter what Beerus said, it's not like his "percentage" works like we know. For example, let's use Toriyama's original scale of 1 to 10.

SSG Goku is a 6, and Beerus used a 7 of his 10 to defeat him. The point is that, between 6 and 7 could be as big a margin as you want.

We can easily mess around and put the following

1 = SSj
2 = SSj2
3 = SSj3
4 = "SSj4"
5 = "SSj5"
6 = SSG
7 = SSB
8 = Beyond SSB
9 = Lower levels of GoDs
10 = Where Beerus, and other Gods, rest currently.

Beerus claiming 10% doesn't really matter at the end - he merely used more power against Vegeta than he used against Goku on King Kai's planet. Like, in his fury, Vegeta ascended from a 2 to a 4 on the scale, or at least a position in 3 greater than Goku, which made Beerus use more power to compensate, when before he was using less of that to completely dominate his opponents. And against Goku, he used power equivalent to a Super Saiyan Blue, by the scale, in order to keep the upper hand the whole time (even when he was actually hit, he took little to no damage, but still could be hit. to me, a SSG could indeed perform that well against a SSB).

[ankokudaishogun]

Also, we know Beerus LIES a lot.

[Super Murjin]

It doesn't really matter what Beerus said, it's not like his "percentage" works like we know. For example, let's use Toriyama's original scale of 1 to 10.

SSG Goku is a 6, and Beerus used a 7 of his 10 to defeat him. The point is that, between 6 and 7 could be as big a margin as you want.

We can easily mess around and put the following

1 = SSj
2 = SSj2
3 = SSj3
4 = "SSj4"
5 = "SSj5"
6 = SSG
7 = SSB
8 = Beyond SSB
9 = Lower levels of GoDs
10 = Where Beerus, and other Gods, rest currently.

Beerus claiming 10% doesn't really matter at the end - he merely used more power against Vegeta than he used against Goku on King Kai's planet. Like, in his fury, Vegeta ascended from a 2 to a 4 on the scale, or at least a position in 3 greater than Goku, which made Beerus use more power to compensate, when before he was using less of that to completely dominate his opponents. And against Goku, he used power equivalent to a Super Saiyan Blue, by the scale, in order to keep the upper hand the whole time (even when he was actually hit, he took little to no damage, but still could be hit. to me, a SSG could indeed perform that well against a SSB).

I created a power level guide based off of this.
I like the way you think.

[Yuji]

Is it possible that Beerus only used less than 10% of his power against SSG during the BoG arc?

In the anime? Considering SSBx20 Goku in the ToP arc is still no match for Beerus, then Beerus likely used even less than 5% of his power against SSG Goku retroactively. It's probably less than 1% considering how much stronger Goku got from BoG to the ToP and how much an improvement SSB seems to be over SSG in the anime (implied to be a 50x boost). If SSG Goku in the ToP is a 1, then

SSG Goku (BoG): <1 (it's lot less than 1, since Goku powers up a lot in the anime not only between arcs but in the arcs themselves, especially throughout the tournament of power)

SSG (ToP): 1
-- SSB: 50
-- KKx20: 1,000

Beerus: >1,000

It's possible Beerus may have gotten stronger from the BoG arc to the ToP but since we only ever see him napping, it is unlikely. As other uses pointed out, Beerus does say he used 10% against Vegeta, but he later claims he was using 100% against Goku. Retroactively, none of these statements make sense.

In the manga, we know pretty concretely that Beerus > CSSB Vegeta from the ToP arc, so we can scale Vegeta from BoG Goku. The gap between SSG and SSB isn't that big (2 to 10 times from the universe 6 arc scaling, I usually go with 2x). From that, making adjustments for training and completed Super Saiyan Blue's boost (I usually go with 1.5x SSB), a figure of around 10% seems apt without being completely humiliating.

If you assume (like the Moro arc implies) that Beerus is superior to Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku, then these percentages decrease even more.

[ZombieVito]

Is it possible that Beerus only used less than 10% of his power against SSG during the BoG arc?

He used less than 1%.

[GodVegetto91]

Is it possible that Beerus only used less than 10% of his power against SSG during the BoG arc?

He used less than 1%.

This. FAR less even!

[Nevaeh]

People have been downplaying rage Vegeta these past few years

He's easily above Super Vegetto imo

[Grand Marshal 1]

People have been downplaying rage Vegeta these past few years

He's easily above Super Vegetto imo

Although stronger than SS3 Goku, we didn't get any other statement on him. Unlike with Failed Ritual SS, who was felt as the strongest entity ever (certainly above any Buu and probably Super Vegito) and we also got initial SSG being indirectly above any fusion (could even mean SS3 Vegito). SS2 Fury Vegeta is imo Buuhan tier.

[Koitsukai]

By the time we reach EoZ, Beerus, vs Vegeta, would've been retconned to have used like 0,0000000001% of his power, and vs the rest of the GoDs he probably used his 40% lol

[Grand Marshal 1]

By the time we reach EoZ, Beerus, vs Vegeta, would've been retconned to have used like 0,0000000001% of his power, and vs the rest of the GoDs he probably used his 40% lol

fax

It wasn't even Beerus in BoG, it was a weaker clone used to test Goku without Beerus waking up (he actually woke up between BoG and RoF)!!!!

[shadd21]

It's heavily implied in the new chapter that the soon-to-be-born "Strongest Warrior in the Universe" foretold by the Oracle Fish is in fact...

Spoiler:

Granola, post-training

Apparently, it's been stated in the chapter that he has untapped potential.

[Grand Marshal 1]

Let's see how well he is written to deserve that powerup and what kept him from training in the past to overthrow Freeza, kill a Great Ape and save his people. Mortal to God boosts don't happen in just one day right...? RIGHT...?!

[Gogeta SSJ Blue]

Let's see how well he is written to deserve that powerup and what kept him from training in the past to overthrow Freeza, kill a Great Ape and save his people. Mortal to God boosts don't happen in just one day right...? RIGHT...?!

If that would really be the case then this arc might be longer than Moro?

You have to count too with his training time...

As long as they don't follow the Golden Frieza 4 months only training for the first time in his life then everything is fine.

[Nevaeh]

People have been downplaying rage Vegeta these past few years

He's easily above Super Vegetto imo

Although stronger than SS3 Goku, we didn't get any other statement on him. Unlike with Failed Ritual SS, who was felt as the strongest entity ever (certainly above any Buu and probably Super Vegito) and we also got initial SSG being indirectly above any fusion (could even mean SS3 Vegito). SS2 Fury Vegeta is imo Buuhan tier.

Goku dismissed Vegetto an option against a suppressed Beerus yet he thought Rage Vegeta could make Beerus get serious

The implication is insane but it's there

[Grand Marshal 1]

spoilers for chapter 68

Spoiler:

Goku pretty much tells us that his UI ability is lesser to Merus. SO what are we supposed to make of this info? Merus was indeed stronger and more capable than MUI Goku apparently, which makes sense, but Moro copying Merus powers, even momentarily should mean that he was superior to Goku with his 'angelic' abilities. But we got the implication (during the fight) that Angelic UI Moro was on par with MUI Goku. SO what exactly happened in your opinion? p.s. I think we shouldn't refer to UI without taking into consideration power and speed anymore (as even I suggested that Moro may have only copied Merus' ability) cause it's pretty evident that that's how it works. Using the Instinct ability, the more sharpened it is, the stronger you also are to complement it.

[Koitsukai]

I guess Moro couldn't use Merus' UI at its fullest, that's why they were even with Goku while Merus' was stronger than Goku's.

[Grand Marshal 1]

I guess Moro couldn't use Merus' UI at its fullest, that's why they were even with Goku while Merus' was stronger than Goku's.

Yeah I can stand behind that. Interesting how they explain 73's ability and then mention that Moro can't handle the powers of an angel, but couldn't mention that Moro could simply not copy so much power in the first place.

[GodVegetto91]

By the time we reach EoZ, Beerus, vs Vegeta, would've been retconned to have used like 0,0000000001% of his power, and vs the rest of the GoDs he probably used his 40% lol

Yes, remember that Beerus fought against a perfected SSJ Blue Vegeta!

After that,

1) He got SSBE (which in the anime at least is a 20x multiplier.)

2) He got Spirit Control on top of that and got MASSIVELY more powerful in all of his forms because of it.

3) And now he’s going to train under Beerus most likely, and either gets energy of destruction (GoD Mode) or something highly similair that equals Goku’s level of UI somewhat...

In simple terms, after this training from Beerus, Vegeta will be whole dimensions and orders of magnitude above the MSSJB Vegeta from before the ToP who fought Beerus..


Getting 3 powerups ABOVE that..

If Beerus-sama is STILL above him... Then it proves he was using less than 1% of his power against Mastered SSJ Blue Vegeta during the leading up to the ToP!

[GodVegetto91]

It's heavily implied in the new chapter that the soon-to-be-born "Strongest Warrior in the Universe" foretold by the Oracle Fish is in fact...

Spoiler:

Granola, post-training

Apparently, it's been stated in the chapter that he has untapped potential.

That makes ZERO sense. He’s just a mere Cereal. Why would his potential outdo a Saiyan...?

[Magnificent Ponta]

That makes ZERO sense. He’s just a mere Cereal. Why would his potential outdo a Saiyan...?

Why does that make no sense? We haven't the slightest idea of what they're really capable of when the most remarkable figures among them push their own limits.