Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Nevaeh]

So basically Gods > Granolah > every mortal?

How does that work when Broly, Jiren and Moro have all been stated to be stronger than gods at one point or another?

[Nevaeh]

My hot take is that even though ancillary media will obviously delight at the chance to pair SS4 characters up with either God or Blue, as the post-3 transformations of two divergent sequels, there just isn't enough to go on between the sequels themselves to make any kind of reasonable estimate as to which branch is stronger than which.

SSJ4 will always be strong no matter how many new forms are introduced. Toei and Bandai will make sure of it. It's their baby afterall

[TheSaiyanGod]

So basically Gods > Granolah > every mortal?

How does that work when Broly, Jiren and Moro have all been stated to be stronger than gods at one point or another?

Kaioshins are gods too. Probably the limitation refers to the fact that Granolah cannot specifically ask to become stronger than a God (like Beerus and Whis), but if there is a mortal who overcomes the powers of these Gods, then this rule can be kind of "broken" and he becomes stronger than this mortal (even if it implies that some Gods are overcome as well)

[Hugo Boss]

So basically Gods > Granolah > every mortal?

How does that work when Broly, Jiren and Moro have all been stated to be stronger than gods at one point or another?

The dragon can make Granola stronger than Goku, at least, but not stronger than any god stronger than Goku. Though, I’m pretty sure he is referring to angels and gods of destruction. Supreme kais are hardly referenced when the gods’ strength is commented in the history of DBS.

[GodVegetto91]

So basically Gods > Granolah > every mortal?

How does that work when Broly, Jiren and Moro have all been stated to be stronger than gods at one point or another?

The dragon can make Granola stronger than Goku, at least, but not stronger than any god stronger than Goku.

This. And it applies to Universe 7 only, where its God - (Beerus!), is still stronger than any mortal in HIS universe out there, unlike Belmod from Universe 11...

So yes, Beerus >>>>>>>>> Granolah >>> Any other mortal in Universe 7.

[Hugo Boss]

It’s interesting that Goku considers Vegeta a contender to the U7 Warrior Rank #1, but he completely forgot to mention Broly or Freeza.

Whis at least made a sensible remark “the universe is a big place (it doesn’t revolve only around Goku and his pals). Depending on the conditions, Granola might not be Rank #1 for very long.

[Koitsukai]

It’s interesting that Goku considers Vegeta a contender to the U7 Warrior Rank #1, but he completely forgot to mention Broly or Freeza.

Whis at least made a sensible remark “the universe is a big place (it doesn’t revolve only around Goku and his pals). Depending on the conditions, Granola might not be Rank #1 for very long.

Is that consideration from the drafts? that would imply Vegeta has indeed surpassed Broly. Golden Freeza was surpassed by Vegeta during the ToP, so I wouldn't place him too high up in the ranking.

[Hugo Boss]

It’s interesting that Goku considers Vegeta a contender to the U7 Warrior Rank #1, but he completely forgot to mention Broly or Freeza.

Whis at least made a sensible remark “the universe is a big place (it doesn’t revolve only around Goku and his pals). Depending on the conditions, Granola might not be Rank #1 for very long.

Is that consideration from the drafts? that would imply Vegeta has indeed surpassed Broly. Golden Freeza was surpassed by Vegeta during the ToP, so I wouldn't place him too high up in the ranking.

Yes, from Herms.

I think Goku is considering a future podium, rather than implying how they currently stand compared to everyone else. For sure, I’m a little surprised he is oblivious to her fellow opponents potential. That’s why Whis retorted him, I believe.

[Koitsukai]

It’s interesting that Goku considers Vegeta a contender to the U7 Warrior Rank #1, but he completely forgot to mention Broly or Freeza.

Whis at least made a sensible remark “the universe is a big place (it doesn’t revolve only around Goku and his pals). Depending on the conditions, Granola might not be Rank #1 for very long.

Is that consideration from the drafts? that would imply Vegeta has indeed surpassed Broly. Golden Freeza was surpassed by Vegeta during the ToP, so I wouldn't place him too high up in the ranking.

Yes, from Herms.

I think Goku is considering a future podium, rather than implying how they currently stand compared to everyone else. For sure, I’m a little surprised he is oblivious to her fellow opponents potential. That’s why Whis retorted him, I believe.

Oh, thanks, yeah, I think it's more on the long run that he holds Vegeta in such high regard.
Also, apparently Granola cannot be made stronger than his current potential and with that he will not surpass Goku. Would this mean he is not the one the Fish was talking about?

And I'm wondering if the GoDs are excluded because of some rule of the dragon (unrelated to how strong they might be) or because they are beyond his capacity due to their power. I guess we'll know in a few days, or maybe in a few months.

[Hugo Boss]

Would this mean he is not the one the Fish was talking about?

I will try not to have too much expectation, but I’m considering this possibility. The narrative is certainly leading us to believe he is the one, but there is that 1%. It might depend on wether or not Granola will be able to fulfill “the condition” or how it might affect him in the long run. I don’t think it will be Goku or Vegeta anyway. The heeters still didn’t put their hands on dragon balls, a lot can happen.

[pepd]

So basically Gods > Granolah > every mortal?

How does that work when Broly, Jiren and Moro have all been stated to be stronger than gods at one point or another?

They are specifically talking about this(7) universe. This would just confirm that Gokuu was wrong with his guess with Broli and wasn't considering Beerus with Moro (or this doesn't include Moro because he is dead)

[GodVegetto91]

Whis saying he doesn't know anyone stronger than Goku and Vegeta is hard evidence that they should both be stronger than Broly at this point. Along with Goku assuming the strongest is himself or Vegeta, not Broly.

Broly was said to be the strongest foe they had fought. Which takes place after the ToP. There is no reason to think Broly isn't stronger than Jiren.

With this information, this tells us that if Vegeta is now stronger than Broly, then he is stronger than Jiren too. This gives us additional scaling to Moro Arc. If current SSBE Vegeta is > Broly > Jiren, and UIO Goku was comparable to SSBE Vegeta, then this confirms Goku's current UIO is > his MUI ToP power.

So Vegeta >>>>>>> Jiren now.

I hope Geekdom, UnrealentGaming, and Emosh read this.

[GodVegetto91]

This is the translation from MShadows over on Narutoforums.

Beerus: You just broke it by flexing your power. The Hakai we Gods of Destruction use completely erases the existence of things from this world. We basically turn "1" into "0". When the material body is erased, a tremendous amount of energy is unleashed.
Goku: Is Beerus destroying things again?
Vegeta: What power!
Beerus: This explosion just now is the beauty of destruction. Can't get enough of it. Huh? Shit! I just destroyed this month's issue of God Comics!
Goku: Vegeta... he's getting taught by Beerus.
Whis: Does that concern you?
Goku: No, Vegeta is Vegeta. I must focus on improving Ultra Instinct. We'll see who'll become the strongest in the universe!
Whis: Oh my, but there's no guarantee that the strongest in the universe will end up being either of you.
Goku: Huh? Do you know anyone stronger than us out there?
Whis: Well, I do not... but there's no telling when another strong being will show up considering how huge the universe is. Isn't that right, Oracle Fish?
Oracle Fish: Huh? Oh yeah... The strongest warrior in the universe will shortly be born.
Whis: See!
Vegeta: He's talking about me!
Oracle Fish: Vegeta?
Goku: Hey, that's the Hakai technique! Wow, you're really good, Vegeta!
Vegeta: I will soon be able to destroy much larger things than what you just saw right now.

[Nevaeh]

Whis saying he doesn't know anyone stronger than Goku and Vegeta is hard evidence that they should both be stronger than Broly at this point. Along with Goku assuming the strongest is himself or Vegeta, not Broly

Goku being stronger than Broly has been known for a while now. He called Moro73 the strongest after fodderizing him and promo material called Goku the strongest in the universe etc.

It’s interesting that Goku considers Vegeta a contender to the U7 Warrior Rank #1, but he completely forgot to mention Broly or Freeza.

Whis at least made a sensible remark “the universe is a big place (it doesn’t revolve only around Goku and his pals). Depending on the conditions, Granola might not be Rank #1 for very long.

The dialogue reads as if Broly is a complete afterthought lol. You'd think someone who was compared to Beerus would be brought up whenever strong people are mentioned. Especially when it pertains to Universe 7

[Cipher]

Re: Above: My reading was just that Goku considers the race to top to be between Vegeta and himself because they’re the two actively training for it.

Even if Broly were still stronger than either or both of them (slightly unclear), he isn’t actively pushing himself higher in the same way they are.

One might consider that, realistically, guys like Freeza and Broly could be contenders too (on top of that, we don’t know how strong mortal Merus is; and heck, even Gohan is hinted to still be able to outpace Goku if he ever wanted to dedicate himself entirely to training in the same way), but I think limiting his dialogue to himself and Vegeta feels more natural for the scene. He’s not running through his power-scaling list—he’s explaining his and Vegeta’s motivations.

[GodVegetto91]

It’s finally over now guys. I’m so happy! Please read this:

Current SSBE Vegeta >>>>>>>>>>> Jiren now.

Because current SSBE Vegeta >>>> Broly >>>>>> Jiren.

I remember all the naysayers and Vegeta downplayers (especially on YouTube!) saying that Vegeta is fodder, and how it’s an objectively proven FACT that current Vegeta is still weaker than Jiren, all because of the incredibly obvious FALSE logic that Jiren must somehow be stronger than him just because he overpowered an MUI Goku...

What they conveniently FAIL to remember.. Is that this version of MUI Goku.. Is much, MUCH weaker than the current version of UI!

Therefore, the scale is clear and simple now guys.

Current SSBE Vegeta >>>> Gogeta Blue > Broly >>>>>>>> Jiren > Belmod > Toppo.

[Soldierofficial]

It’s finally over now guys. I’m so happy! Please read this:

Current SSBE Vegeta >>>>>>>>>>> Jiren now.

Because current SSBE Vegeta >>>> Broly >>>>>> Jiren.

I remember all the naysayers and Vegeta downplayers (especially on YouTube!) saying that Vegeta is fodder, and how it’s an objectively proven FACT that current Vegeta is still weaker than Jiren, all because of the incredibly obvious FALSE logic that Jiren must somehow be stronger than him just because he overpowered an MUI Goku...

What they conveniently FAIL to remember.. Is that this version of MUI Goku.. Is much, MUCH weaker than the current version of UI!

Therefore, the scale is clear and simple now guys.

Current SSBE Vegeta >>>> Gogeta Blue > Broly >>>>>>>> Jiren > Belmod > Toppo.

None of that is a fact, nothing puts Vegeta above Broly or Jiren.

[GodVegetto91]

It’s finally over now guys. I’m so happy! Please read this:

Current SSBE Vegeta >>>>>>>>>>> Jiren now.

Because current SSBE Vegeta >>>> Broly >>>>>> Jiren.

I remember all the naysayers and Vegeta downplayers (especially on YouTube!) saying that Vegeta is fodder, and how it’s an objectively proven FACT that current Vegeta is still weaker than Jiren, all because of the incredibly obvious FALSE logic that Jiren must somehow be stronger than him just because he overpowered an MUI Goku...

What they conveniently FAIL to remember.. Is that this version of MUI Goku.. Is much, MUCH weaker than the current version of UI!

Therefore, the scale is clear and simple now guys.

Current SSBE Vegeta >>>> Gogeta Blue > Broly >>>>>>>> Jiren > Belmod > Toppo.

None of that is a fact, nothing puts Vegeta above Broly or Jiren.

Wow...

The denial is strong in this one..

Way to straight-up ignore cold hard evidence..

If you don’t view the below statements by Goku and Whis as proof that Goku and Vegeta have surpassed Broly and Jiren, then I don’t know what to tell you...

Goku: Vegeta... he's getting taught by Beerus.
Whis: Does that concern you?
Goku: No, Vegeta is Vegeta. I must focus on improving Ultra Instinct. We'll see who'll become the strongest in the universe!
Whis: Oh my, but there's no guarantee that the strongest in the universe will end up being either of you.
Goku: Huh? Do you know anyone stronger than us out there?
Whis: Well, I do not... but there's no telling when another strong being will show up considering how huge the universe is. Isn't that right, Oracle Fish?
Oracle Fish: Huh? Oh yeah... The strongest warrior in the universe will shortly be born.
Whis: See!

[Soldierofficial]

It’s finally over now guys. I’m so happy! Please read this:

Current SSBE Vegeta >>>>>>>>>>> Jiren now.

Because current SSBE Vegeta >>>> Broly >>>>>> Jiren.

I remember all the naysayers and Vegeta downplayers (especially on YouTube!) saying that Vegeta is fodder, and how it’s an objectively proven FACT that current Vegeta is still weaker than Jiren, all because of the incredibly obvious FALSE logic that Jiren must somehow be stronger than him just because he overpowered an MUI Goku...

What they conveniently FAIL to remember.. Is that this version of MUI Goku.. Is much, MUCH weaker than the current version of UI!

Therefore, the scale is clear and simple now guys.

Current SSBE Vegeta >>>> Gogeta Blue > Broly >>>>>>>> Jiren > Belmod > Toppo.

None of that is a fact, nothing puts Vegeta above Broly or Jiren.

Wow...

The denial is strong in this one..

Way to straight-up ignore cold hard evidence..

If you don’t view the below statements by Goku and Whis as proof that Goku and Vegeta have surpassed Broly and Jiren, then I don’t know what to tell you...

Goku: Vegeta... he's getting taught by Beerus.
Whis: Does that concern you?
Goku: No, Vegeta is Vegeta. I must focus on improving Ultra Instinct. We'll see who'll become the strongest in the universe!
Whis: Oh my, but there's no guarantee that the strongest in the universe will end up being either of you.
Goku: Huh? Do you know anyone stronger than us out there?
Whis: Well, I do not... but there's no telling when another strong being will show up considering how huge the universe is. Isn't that right, Oracle Fish?
Oracle Fish: Huh? Oh yeah... The strongest warrior in the universe will shortly be born.
Whis: See!

Ironic coming from the guy who still doesn't want to admit that Saitama is not a worthy match for UI Goku or that Bruce Lee would be demolished by Mike Tyson.

I'm only interested in the facts, and nothing suggests that Vegeta surpassed Broly or Jiren.

Yeah, either you can't read or you're trolling because what you're saying has nothing to do with the statements, this is the kind of bad behavior that got you banned from NF, my patience goes this far, Maru, dont try to quote me again, I am aware of your motives and I am not interested.

[FishermanJohnWest]

My response to this

Beerus being higher than anyone besides Whis, while at the same time trying to draw people in with might be stronger than Beerus or probably stronger then Beerus statements are cheap hype, going further we have cheap statements like the greatest warrior in the universe or the strongest or toughest, yet they are not Beerus or Whis level who are really the strongest in the universe 7. This greatest warrior in the universe is nonsense, cause they exclude gods from the mix.

Goku is the strongest mortal in the universe according to sources yet still suggested to be weaker than Beerus in the series, but that's should not the case since Broly exist cause he was said to be probably stronger than Beerus, thus they respond by pretending he doesn't exist and carry on with the show as normal since Goku is appearing more than him thus they will invest more hype in him and as well in Vegeta.

Yet when the show requires Broly to make an appearance, they will wank and talk about him in high regards all over again and all the spotlight will be on him, just like Frieza in the Broly movie and how Vegeta quote in the Broly movie in worrying about Frieza cause of his potential, and when that arc is over, they will pretend he doesn't exist.

To summarise super, it's all about the HERE and NOW, not about the past or future of the series, meaning once a statement is made currently, it will likely become useless after as it's served its purpose in hyping you guys up for the here and now.

To give a conclusion on who I think is stronger, I will wait until I see Broly comes back for the final nail in the coffin, if he is weaker than Beerus then yeah, it's basically GG for Broly cause Akira and the promotions had basically lied about Broly in order to fool you people into watching the movie and had no intention of being consistent with what's they said.