Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Aside from that, Tenshinhan is presenting the idea that the situation is hopeless even with Goku because Goku has always been the strongest and never failed to save them in the past.

That's what I'm saying bruh

You do realize that the fight with Cell Max encapsulates far more than just Beast Gohan fighting Cell Max, correct?

I stand by what I said in the 2nd panel.

Yes, that's why Gamma 2 was so important. Gohan alone might not have beaten, but I'm not sure if Cell was that strong or if Piccolo thinks Gohan would get killed before awakening.

[Goku9001]

Yes, that's why Gamma 2 was so important. Gohan alone might not have beaten, but I'm not sure if Cell was that strong or if Piccolo thinks Gohan would get killed before awakening.

What I'm saying is that the Gammas in general were instrumental since Ultimate Gohan and Orange Piccolo couldn't have managed it on their own. That doesn't mean Beast Gohan needed Gamma 2 to defeat him.

[Helios518]

I haven't kept up to much of the discourse here but isn't the fact that Goten and Trunks haven't grown up in the Moro Arc while they have grown up Super Hero, proves that Super Hero takes place after the Moro Arc therefore Gohan Beast > Moro Arc UI Goku?

[Hugo Boss]

I haven't kept up to much of the discourse here but isn't the fact that Goten and Trunks haven't grown up in the Moro Arc while they have grown up Super Hero, proves that Super Hero takes place after the Moro Arc therefore Gohan Beast > Moro Arc UI Goku?

Super Hero actually takes place after Granolah arc, but the movie seemingly doesn’t acknowledge manga-only events, specially Goku being stronger than characters stronger than Broly and Jiren, who are still above him in the movie. Goku and Vegeta are basically not that much different from when they fought Broly, everything considered.

[Helios518]

I haven't kept up to much of the discourse here but isn't the fact that Goten and Trunks haven't grown up in the Moro Arc while they have grown up Super Hero, proves that Super Hero takes place after the Moro Arc therefore Gohan Beast > Moro Arc UI Goku?

Super Hero actually takes place after Granolah arc, but the movie seemingly doesn’t acknowledge manga-only events, specially Goku being stronger than characters stronger than Broly and Jiren, who are still above him in the movie. Goku and Vegeta are basically not that much different from when they fought Broly, everything considered.

I'm confused. Super Hero takes place after Granolah arc but Super Hero Goku is not much different Broly Movie Goku despite the former having UI? Wouldn't that make them vastly different?

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I think a lot of DBS:SH's scaling depends on how strong Gamma 1 and 2 are supposed to be.

Which form of Goku and Vegeta are they meant to be comparable to? If we can figure out something concrete on that front, scaling the rest up/down is a simpler matter.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I haven't kept up to much of the discourse here but isn't the fact that Goten and Trunks haven't grown up in the Moro Arc while they have grown up Super Hero, proves that Super Hero takes place after the Moro Arc therefore Gohan Beast > Moro Arc UI Goku?

Super Hero actually takes place after Granolah arc, but the movie seemingly doesn’t acknowledge manga-only events, specially Goku being stronger than characters stronger than Broly and Jiren, who are still above him in the movie. Goku and Vegeta are basically not that much different from when they fought Broly, everything considered.

I'm confused. Super Hero takes place after Granolah arc but Super Hero Goku is not much different Broly Movie Goku despite the former having UI? Wouldn't that make them vastly different?

It’s after as in chronological placement, as you mentioned the boys are still kids in the manga but not in the movie. Granola and Moro don’t happen in the movie.

I think a lot of DBS:SH's scaling depends on how strong Gamma 1 and 2 are supposed to be.

Which form of Goku and Vegeta are they meant to be comparable to? If we can figure out something concrete on that front, scaling the rest up/down is a simpler matter.

I think it’s either a comparison to SSJB Goku and Vegeta from the Broly movie and Piccolo hasn’t seen them since or it’s just a very broad comparison.

[Helios518]

Super Hero actually takes place after Granolah arc, but the movie seemingly doesn’t acknowledge manga-only events, specially Goku being stronger than characters stronger than Broly and Jiren, who are still above him in the movie. Goku and Vegeta are basically not that much different from when they fought Broly, everything considered.

I'm confused. Super Hero takes place after Granolah arc but Super Hero Goku is not much different Broly Movie Goku despite the former having UI? Wouldn't that make them vastly different?

It’s after as in chronological placement, as you mentioned the boys are still kids in the manga but not in the movie. Granola and Moro don’t happen in the movie.

If Granola and Moro don't happen in this movie's timeline, are you suggesting that the movie takes place in a different continuity entirely? I'm doubtful that a movie made by Toriyama wouldn't be used in the manga. That being said, I mentioned Goten and Trunks growing up as why it takes place after Moro arc (last time they appeared in the manga in which they were still small) so they could definitely grow up quickly during the events of the Granolah arc.

[Goku9001]

I'm assuming you think the Gammas were stronger than Goku and Vegeta by the time they fought Cell Max or at least comparable? I do recall Hedo suggesting that the Gammas obtain data as they fight. Perhaps that made a difference.

Yes, precisely. Of course, their intel about Cell Max played a big factor, but their power was also accounted. The Gammas are also capable of improving as the fight prolongs, and at the end they were implied to be above Goku and Vegeta. So, they don’t lose on either scenario.

By the way, despite how their fight played out, Beast Gohan is also implied to be weaker than Cell Max at full power. Cell Max’s attack power significantly dropped after Gamma #2’s attack. I should say, before watching the movie in its entirety, I was skeptical about it, but Gamma #2’s big scene is a huge moment in the movie (definitely dwarfs what came later). I left the movie thinking the only one who could single-handily defeat Cell Max was Broly, as long as Cell Max wasn’t perfected.

What statements were provided in regards to how the Gammas compare to Goku and Vegeta? I watched it dubbed and didn't catch any and that's likely because the dubbed may have omitted/translated these statements differently.

Gamma 2's performance definitely places him way up there and I definitely don't think there's anything that suggests that Orange Piccolo could do the same thing. In fact, he gambles on Gohan to do the same thing because he has the potential to be the "mightiest warrior" i.e one that surpasses both Goku and Vegeta. That should put things in perspective as to how powerful the Gammas could be. However, I'm not so sure if Cell Max's battle power had dropped. My understanding was that attacking his weakspot made him more susceptible to damage at the expense of overloading his system and making him stronger. Cell Max became progressively stronger as the fight continued.

Looking back on things, I think Beast Gohan may be weaker than Broly considering what you said including how the emphasis on Gohan's transformation into the "mightiest warrior" seems to be placed strictly on surpassing Goku and Vegeta. When looking at this in the context of the manga (whenever or if Super Hero gets readapted to reconcile with the manga), I can't imagine Beast Gohan being treated as a significant benchmark for Goku and Vegeta to overcome. It's difficult to tell how Beast Gohan compares to UI Goku and Jiren. At least in terms of power, he should be way ahead of Jiren but that doesn't tell us how he'd fare against Jiren considering Jiren's explosive fighting style.

[Goku9001]

If Granola and Moro don't happen in this movie's timeline, are you suggesting that the movie takes place in a different continuity entirely? I'm doubtful that a movie made by Toriyama wouldn't be used in the manga. That being said, I mentioned Goten and Trunks growing up as why it takes place after Moro arc (last time they appeared in the manga in which they were still small) so they could definitely grow up quickly during the events of the Granolah arc.

I think it's more digestible to view the movies as a separate continuity. Battle of Gods was readapted for both the anime and manga and I'd imagine Super Hero would be the same to reconcile with the events of the manga. The writers already confirmed that Super Hero and the manga are two separate stories because Super Hero was written as a direct continuation to Broly whereas the manga expanded on the events that occur after Broly since then. Therefore, the writers are fully aware of the differences between the movie and manga and so Toyotaro can readapt the events of Super Hero to align with his story as he sees fit.

The important thing is that the main events of Super Hero i.e Magetta cooperating with Hedo to produce the Gammas, Gammas fight Piccolo and Gohan, Cell Max is released, etc. will be canon to the overarching plot of Dragon Ball that the anime, movies, and manga follow. But, the specific details of it such as Goku's mastery over Ultra Instinct, could change to suit the manga.

[ZombieVito]

However, I'm not so sure if Cell Max's battle power had dropped. My understanding was that attacking his weakspot made him more susceptible to damage at the expense of overloading his system and making him stronger. Cell Max became progressively stronger as the fight continued.

Nowhere is this stated in the film. Destroying his weakspot is said to make him explode, that's it.

[Goku9001]

However, I'm not so sure if Cell Max's battle power had dropped. My understanding was that attacking his weakspot made him more susceptible to damage at the expense of overloading his system and making him stronger. Cell Max became progressively stronger as the fight continued.

Nowhere is this stated in the film. Destroying his weakspot is said to make him explode, that's it.

What is the exact statement?

[Koitsukai]

The Gammas were said to be on the saiyan's level, so they must be SSB tier, considering the movie seems to take place in a continuity where the Ultra forms cannot be accessed voluntarily or not at all, and it's vague about it on purpose.
Gamma 2's sacrifice punching way above his weight isn't that big of a deal to me, or new to the franchise, at least his one time thing is not relevant to where he stands.

Funny, though, everything putting Broly above our guys is mostly promotional or out-of-universe information, the movie only has them not wanting to fight him because he loses it and could destroy the small planet they are on. Toyo literally has nothing to retcon in that regard, he could even keep that line, even though manga saiyans should by now oneshot Movie 1 Broly if he were to go wild, but nothing a good zenkai boost for the guy won't explain.
I mean, yeah, in the movie he is above them because we know he was already above them in the last movie and no new forms are mentioned now, but manga-wise, it can easily have a different interpretation without breaking anything.

The Jiren quote, for Toyo and the manga, could be interpreted as a fascination with his fighting efficiency that makes him such a beast, without having him above UI. His energy saving skills could propel the guys even further, it could actually be one of Black Freeza's new abilities.

Overall, except for Gohan being an idiot that forgets his mojo everywhere, the movie doesn't contradict the manga that much (the ToP happened a few years ago). Or, maybe I should say the manga won't have to adapt that much from SH, except for Gohan's inclusion in the Moro arc.


With the Gammas and the Ultimate folks being blue level, Orange Piccolo could be above SS2 Kefla tier considering he was tanking a SSB tier fella (for the manga, I'd say he is above Saganbo), and Beast Gohan is really anyone's guess but should be right there with the likes of Jiren, Broly, UI, UE, etc. The next arc hopefully will have Gohan and Piccolo being big hitters, no matter where they land, they should be relevant.

[ZombieVito]

However, I'm not so sure if Cell Max's battle power had dropped. My understanding was that attacking his weakspot made him more susceptible to damage at the expense of overloading his system and making him stronger. Cell Max became progressively stronger as the fight continued.

Nowhere is this stated in the film. Destroying his weakspot is said to make him explode, that's it.

What is the exact statement?

Gohan: Damn!
Gamma 2: Aim for the top of his head! That's his one weakness!
Goten|Trunks|18: The top of his head?!
Gamma 2: The doctor figured something like this might happen, so he gave Cell Max a weakness just in case.
Piccolo: A weakness?
Gamma 2: But you must be willing to lay down your life! Hitting Cell Max's weakness triggers an explosion that wipes out every cell in his body! You'll die too!

[Goku9001]

Nowhere is this stated in the film. Destroying his weakspot is said to make him explode, that's it.

What is the exact statement?

Gohan: Damn!
Gamma 2: Aim for the top of his head! That's his one weakness!
Goten|Trunks|18: The top of his head?!
Gamma 2: The doctor figured something like this might happen, so he gave Cell Max a weakness just in case.
Piccolo: A weakness?
Gamma 2: But you must be willing to lay down your life! Hitting Cell Max's weakness triggers an explosion that wipes out every cell in his body! You'll die too!

Is there a source where you're finding these statements?

[Goku9001]

Nowhere is this stated in the film. Destroying his weakspot is said to make him explode, that's it.

What is the exact statement?

Gohan: Damn!
Gamma 2: Aim for the top of his head! That's his one weakness!
Goten|Trunks|18: The top of his head?!
Gamma 2: The doctor figured something like this might happen, so he gave Cell Max a weakness just in case.
Piccolo: A weakness?
Gamma 2: But you must be willing to lay down your life! Hitting Cell Max's weakness triggers an explosion that wipes out every cell in his body! You'll die too!

Is there a source where you're finding these statements?

[Hugo Boss]

What statements were provided in regards to how the Gammas compare to Goku and Vegeta? I watched it dubbed and didn't catch any and that's likely because the dubbed may have omitted/translated these statements differently.

Gamma 2's performance definitely places him way up there and I definitely don't think there's anything that suggests that Orange Piccolo could do the same thing. In fact, he gambles on Gohan to do the same thing because he has the potential to be the "mightiest warrior" i.e one that surpasses both Goku and Vegeta. That should put things in perspective as to how powerful the Gammas could be. However, I'm not so sure if Cell Max's battle power had dropped. My understanding was that attacking his weakspot made him more susceptible to damage at the expense of overloading his system and making him stronger. Cell Max became progressively stronger as the fight continued.

Looking back on things, I think Beast Gohan may be weaker than Broly considering what you said including how the emphasis on Gohan's transformation into the "mightiest warrior" seems to be placed strictly on surpassing Goku and Vegeta. When looking at this in the context of the manga (whenever or if Super Hero gets readapted to reconcile with the manga), I can't imagine Beast Gohan being treated as a significant benchmark for Goku and Vegeta to overcome. It's difficult to tell how Beast Gohan compares to UI Goku and Jiren. At least in terms of power, he should be way ahead of Jiren but that doesn't tell us how he'd fare against Jiren considering Jiren's explosive fighting style.

I watched the movie in Brazilian dub, which is known to be very faithful to the original Japanese version, with minor adjustments, according to Unidub's CEO (who is, by the way, Goku's voice actor).

First statement comes from Piccolo, after Bulma said she failed to contact Whis. He says the Gamma siblings are on the same level of Goku and Vegeta. Second comes from Gohan, after Cell Max was defeated. Gohan says to Piccolo they wouldn't win even with Goku and Vegeta's help. Third comes from Piccolo, after it's confirmed Gamma #2 was gone. He says they wouldn't have won without the Gammas (in plural). Basically, the dialogue plays off as, if you trade the Gamma siblings for Goku and Vegeta in the raid battle, they would have lost.

By the way, Piccolo does say Cell Max's power decreased after Gamma #2's big attack. Cell Max had to try really hard to block Gamma #2 and still wasn't able to stop him. I would bet he lost more than half of his power there.

Now, speaking of Piccolo, his second fight against Gamma #2 may imply his ultimate form is at least on the same level of Goku and Vegeta, given the confidence Piccolo had initially and apparent surprise after realizing Gamma #2 was still ahead, forcing him to reveal his trump card.

About Goku vs. Vegeta, if you have watched their fight closely, it seems Vegeta was applying his new skill against Goku, though he still needed more refinement. If Vegeta pulled it off in the end in their normal forms, probably he would have a similar result in Super Saiyan Blue.

So, to summarize it, my pecky order would be something like: Broly > Cell Max > Beast Gohan > Cell Max weakened > Orange Piccolo > Ultimate Gohan > Gammas > Ultimate Piccolo > SSB Vegeta > SSB Goku

[QuakingStar]

This movie takes place after the Broly movie, which takes place after the ToP and both movies follow the anime.
In the ToP in the anime Goku had shown off the power of SSBKKx20, UI-Sign, and UI while Vegeta had SSBlue Evolved which was inititially SSBKKx20 level in power until Vegeta awakened further power in it vs GoD Top which allowed him to then gain the nearly complete advantage against him.

So in terms of what are Goku and Vegeta's top levels of power barring fusion we have seen UI and Blue Evolved.

The Gammas are said to be the Ultimate Androids, when the last to have that title was ToP Android 17 who was about Blue levels of power himself while still weaker than SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta.

So the Gammas are above 17 and also SSB levels of power.

Goku and Vegeta had left earth 3 weeks prior to go to Whis to train with Broly, so they had not been gone long by the time of the events of the movie. Piccolo in the movie compares the Gammas to Goku and Vegeta in power.

Ultimate Piccolo still loses to a Gamma even though he puts up a fight.

Ultimate Gohan is able to fight a Gamma, and has the edge in power.

Orange Piccolo tanks a Gamma's attacks and knocks him out with one punch.

Cell Max is stated stronger than Broly if he was completed and we see Cell Max is literally said to be completed in the movie with the only difference being his mind control programming is not complete hence it being dangerous to set him free early and Hedo not wanting him to be set free yet due to that.

Cell Max still can't outright beat or Kill Orange Piccolo who though he was weaker than Cell Max he was close enough to him in power to be able to last against him and againt his attacks as well as land his own attacks and after the Gamma suicide attack, even Cell Maxs final energy attack combo against Orange Piccolo only knocked him out cold.

Cell Max's performance pre-Gamma suicide attack wasn't much different, he was still just as fast and tanky and Orange Piccolo faired no different against him.

Cell Max's full force punch does literally nothing to Gohan Beast, and literally does not even budge him AT ALL. Gohan then kicked him away with ease. Piccolo's only way of helping at that point is to try and hold Cell Max's head still so that the precision tech Special Beam Canon can hit his head, that and Cell Max was literally trying to run from Gohan, Gohan had seemingly put fear into him.

In Broly movie we know Goku and Vegeta opted to skip Blue Evolved and SSBKaioken, as well as not even attempt UI either and thought that only Fusion could have fought SS Broly, not even including FPSS Broly which did not exist at the point in time where they opted to fuse instead.

In DBS Broly FPSS Broly tanked SS Gogetas attack and then knocked him flying, forcing him to go Blue to gain the definitive edge in power, and speed again, after all the intent was to defeat and kill Broly to save the Universe from his rampage.

This movie takes place when Pan is 3, Piccolo in the movie says she is 3, Pan later in the movie claims she is almost 3.5. Pan is born in Age 779. This means the movie takes place in Age 782. Meaning it is only 2 years after the events of DBS Broly which takes place not too long after the ToP.
Goku, Vegeta, and Broly should all 3 have gotten much stronger since the events of the DBS Broly Movie. We also know that Piccolo had been training this entire time because that's literally all he does, while Gohan reveals he was doing secret training in the SH movie even secretly learning Special Beam Cannon.

So in conclusion it seems that the intended order is

SSB Gogeta > Gohan Beast >= Cell Max >= FPSS Broly > SS Gogeta = Cell Max(Post Gamma Suicide Attack) >= UI Goku > Blue Evolved Vegeta = Orange Piccolo > Ultimate Gohan > Gamma 1 and 2 > Android 17 >= Ultimate Piccolo.

[Goku9001]

What statements were provided in regards to how the Gammas compare to Goku and Vegeta? I watched it dubbed and didn't catch any and that's likely because the dubbed may have omitted/translated these statements differently.

Gamma 2's performance definitely places him way up there and I definitely don't think there's anything that suggests that Orange Piccolo could do the same thing. In fact, he gambles on Gohan to do the same thing because he has the potential to be the "mightiest warrior" i.e one that surpasses both Goku and Vegeta. That should put things in perspective as to how powerful the Gammas could be. However, I'm not so sure if Cell Max's battle power had dropped. My understanding was that attacking his weakspot made him more susceptible to damage at the expense of overloading his system and making him stronger. Cell Max became progressively stronger as the fight continued.

Looking back on things, I think Beast Gohan may be weaker than Broly considering what you said including how the emphasis on Gohan's transformation into the "mightiest warrior" seems to be placed strictly on surpassing Goku and Vegeta. When looking at this in the context of the manga (whenever or if Super Hero gets readapted to reconcile with the manga), I can't imagine Beast Gohan being treated as a significant benchmark for Goku and Vegeta to overcome. It's difficult to tell how Beast Gohan compares to UI Goku and Jiren. At least in terms of power, he should be way ahead of Jiren but that doesn't tell us how he'd fare against Jiren considering Jiren's explosive fighting style.

I watched the movie in Brazilian dub, which is known to be very faithful to the original Japanese version, with minor adjustments, according to Unidub's CEO (who is, by the way, Goku's voice actor).

First statement comes from Piccolo, after Bulma said she failed to contact Whis. He says the Gamma siblings are on the same level of Goku and Vegeta. Second comes from Gohan, after Cell Max was defeated. Gohan says to Piccolo they wouldn't win even with Goku and Vegeta's help. Third comes from Piccolo, after it's confirmed Gamma #2 was gone. He says they wouldn't have won without the Gammas (in plural). Basically, the dialogue plays off as, if you trade the Gamma siblings for Goku and Vegeta in the raid battle, they would have lost.

By the way, Piccolo does say Cell Max's power decreased after Gamma #2's big attack. Cell Max had to try really hard to block Gamma #2 and still wasn't able to stop him. I would bet he lost more than half of his power there.

Now, speaking of Piccolo, his second fight against Gamma #2 may imply his ultimate form is at least on the same level of Goku and Vegeta, given the confidence Piccolo had initially and apparent surprise after realizing Gamma #2 was still ahead, forcing him to reveal his trump card.

About Goku vs. Vegeta, if you have watched their fight closely, it seems Vegeta was applying his new skill against Goku, though he still needed more refinement. If Vegeta pulled it off in the end in their normal forms, probably he would have a similar result in Super Saiyan Blue.

So, to summarize it, my pecky order would be something like: Broly > Cell Max > Beast Gohan > Cell Max weakened > Orange Piccolo > Ultimate Gohan > Gammas > Ultimate Piccolo > SSB Vegeta > SSB Goku

I don't think that's the intention behind that statement. Piccolo's statement about Cell Max being someone who Goku and Vegeta may not be able to defeat should firmly place Goku and Vegeta beyond Orange Piccolo & co. given that Cell Max is far stronger than him and he is aware that the Gammas' strongest assault was incapable of defeating Cell Max. Piccolo claiming that Goku and Vegeta may not be able to win with some uncertainty despite everything he knows about Cell Max should make that clear.

It also plays into the significance of Beast Gohan's transformation. After that statement is made, Piccolo does tell Gohan that he has the potential to be the "mightiest warrior" right before their final assault on Cell Max. Piccolo tells Pan that Gohan could become the "mightiest warrior" by surpassing Goku if Gohan still continued to battle. Piccolo telling Gohan this during their last stand as Orange Piccolo and Ultimate Gohan would mean that both Orange Piccolo, Ultimate Gohan, and the Gammas presumably hadn't achieved the title as the "mightiest warrior". That's the narrative impact behind Beast Gohan's transformation. He finally became the "mightiest warrior" that Piccolo was talking about since the beginning of the movie.

I would need to rewatch the movie because Piccolo did state that his attack power had dropped, but at the same time, it was mentioned that attacking his weakspot would overload his system. With more energy, he naturally could power up which explains why he became increasingly more difficult as the fight continued. Whenever the movie becomes publicly available to purchase or there are official translations out there that I'm not aware of, I'll be sure to take a deeper dive at it.

I agree that the implication is there that only Broly can defeat Weakened Cell Max. I would say my new powerchain would be:

Broly > Beast Gohan > Incomplete Cell Max > Blue Goku/Blue Vegeta > Gammas (vs. Cell Max) > Orange Piccolo > Ultimate Gohan > Gammas (vs. Gohan/Piccolo) > Ultimate Piccolo

[larzooma]

I'm assuming you think the Gammas were stronger than Goku and Vegeta by the time they fought Cell Max or at least comparable? I do recall Hedo suggesting that the Gammas obtain data as they fight. Perhaps that made a difference.

Yes, precisely. Of course, their intel about Cell Max played a big factor, but their power was also accounted. The Gammas are also capable of improving as the fight prolongs, and at the end they were implied to be above Goku and Vegeta. So, they don’t lose on either scenario.

By the way, despite how their fight played out, Beast Gohan is also implied to be weaker than Cell Max at full power. Cell Max’s attack power significantly dropped after Gamma #2’s attack. I should say, before watching the movie in its entirety, I was skeptical about it, but Gamma #2’s big scene is a huge moment in the movie (definitely dwarfs what came later). I left the movie thinking the only one who could single-handily defeat Cell Max was Broly, as long as Cell Max wasn’t perfected.

What statements were provided in regards to how the Gammas compare to Goku and Vegeta? I watched it dubbed and didn't catch any and that's likely because the dubbed may have omitted/translated these statements differently.

Gamma 2's performance definitely places him way up there and I definitely don't think there's anything that suggests that Orange Piccolo could do the same thing. In fact, he gambles on Gohan to do the same thing because he has the potential to be the "mightiest warrior" i.e one that surpasses both Goku and Vegeta. That should put things in perspective as to how powerful the Gammas could be. However, I'm not so sure if Cell Max's battle power had dropped. My understanding was that attacking his weakspot made him more susceptible to damage at the expense of overloading his system and making him stronger. Cell Max became progressively stronger as the fight continued.

Looking back on things, I think Beast Gohan may be weaker than Broly considering what you said including how the emphasis on Gohan's transformation into the "mightiest warrior" seems to be placed strictly on surpassing Goku and Vegeta. When looking at this in the context of the manga (whenever or if Super Hero gets readapted to reconcile with the manga), I can't imagine Beast Gohan being treated as a significant benchmark for Goku and Vegeta to overcome. It's difficult to tell how Beast Gohan compares to UI Goku and Jiren. At least in terms of power, he should be way ahead of Jiren but that doesn't tell us how he'd fare against Jiren considering Jiren's explosive fighting style.

The gamma's are said to be the strongest androids meaning above a SSJB level 17. Gamma 1 shows as much going toe to toe with Ultimate Gohan. They also improve as the fight progresses meaning they're most likely above SSJB level by the time they're going against Gohan and Piccolo in their Ultimate forms. The latter is why I place Orange Piccolo well above SSJB. The fact he's capable of both tanking Gamma 2's attacks and taking him out with one shot is purposeful to show the power gap is significant. DB uses sequences like this when one character is shown on par or weaker than another until they access a new transformation and decimate the same opponent. Frieza's actions in the manga are the latest example.

Gamma 2 injuring Cell Max isn't an indication of his power compared to Orange Piccolo at that point and Beast Gohan. His attack is similar to Vegeta's attack against Buu, meant as a last ditch sacrifice where you release all of your power in a single burst. The point is realized he didn't stand a chance against such a powerful enemy and his only option to become the hero he's meant to be was his sacrifice. Even if he could somehow match Cell Max in size to facilitate a one on one a little better he would have been crushed. Orange Piccolo on the other hand at least put up a fight despite being on the third fight of the day without using the Senzu.

Beast Gohan was the second instance of showing how significant his power increase was when he transformed. He went from not standing a chance in Ultimate to Cell Max's attacks being almost nothing to him while his single attack rocked him. As a smart fighter, he went to the Makankosappo right away because he knew the best bet was a highly concentrated attack with more than enough power to break through Cell Max's weak spot and cause him to destruct.

We really have no way of knowing what he could have done in a straight up fight against Cell Max, if the logistics were a little easier given his size difference and they weren't given an exploit. I don't think Broly would have faired any better given we don't know what he's capable of when he's in the more controlled form Kale showed in the ToP. In his beserk form, he would have been pretty useless in trying to direct a focused attack at a single spot. If Toriyama, Toyotaro, and the gang want to clearly show where Gohan falls in the order, they need to show him fighting a maxed out Broly along with somehow referencing or even showing how he fared against UE Vegeta or TUI Goku.

I'd love to see the same with Orange Piccolo. Somehow setting up a situation where we see someone known to be on their level liek Granohla coming to take up Vegeta on the offer or Broly, and Piccolo steps up telling Vegeta he'd like to fight first. Perfect for some dialogue from Vegeta laughing about Piccolo not standing a chance and if he wants to get himself killed it's fine with him. Only to show Piccolo transform, first shocking Vegeta just through his ability to sense ki and going on to show him he's able to compete on that level.

So perfect to use Vegeta in this capacity given the history he has doubting Piccolo's capabilities, which caused him to eat his words in DBZ and sadly be proven right in DBS. Finally time for Piccolo to shock the Ultra Ego out his hair like he did during the Cell saga.