Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Hugo Boss]

As for Granolah’s clone, it was stated to have half the original’s full strength.

When was that stated?

My mistake. Going by Brazilian translation, Granolah told Goku his power was divided, which is basically a split in two equal parts. But after I checked English translation, he told his power was split, but he only took some power from his true body, so it’s not necessarily half. Chapter #73 for reference.

[Yuji]

How would you rank all these characters from strongest to weakest?

Super Perfect Cell
Dabra
Tamagami 3
Tamagami 2
Tamagami 1
Hatchiyack
Z Broly
Bojack
Mr. Boo
Majin Doo

[Thani]

How would you rank all these characters from strongest to weakest?

Super Perfect Cell
Dabra
Tamagami 3
Tamagami 2
Tamagami 1
Hatchiyack
Z Broly
Bojack
Mr. Boo
Majin Doo

Well, let's see... from weakest to strongest.

8. Bojack = Dabra (No Majin seal)
7. Z Broly (First Movie)
6. Super Perfect Cell = Tamagami 3 = Dabra (Majin seal)
5. Z Broly (Second Coming) = Mr. Boo = SS2 Goku/Majin Vegeta = Tamagami 2 (Regular) = Majin Kuu (as a bonus)
4. Hatchyack
3. Tamagami 2 (Aura) = Tamagami 1 (Regular)
2. Tamagami 1 (Aura)
1. Majin Doo

[Koitsukai]

How would you rank all these characters from strongest to weakest?

Super Perfect Cell
Dabra
Tamagami 3
Tamagami 2
Tamagami 1
Hatchiyack
Z Broly
Bojack
Mr. Boo
Majin Doo

I'm still not certain how weak the wish made them, at times they seem as strong as always, but they also sometimes seem to be much weaker. In their base forms, struggling so much with mooks made me think they are weaker than I thought. Them saying "in these bodies we can't fight yet" doesn't help.


1- Doo
2- T-1
3- T-2 (powered up)
4- Mr. Boo/Hatchyack (only remember he was stronger than Broly)
5- Broly's 2nd coming.
6- T-3 (probably the strongest dude that can't beat a SS2)
7- SP Cell
8- Broly
9- Dabura
10- Bojack

On another note, what's up with Piccolo being on par with the saiyans' base forms? I was hoping to see him do better than the saiyans in base, but that didn't happen.
Are their base forms stronger than we thought or is Piccolo not SS level anymore? could this be due to the wish? it shouldn't, I know, but still.

[Yuji]

Piccolo was never SS level since the ROSAT. He's always been firmly somewhere between base and SS.

In the Cell arc, Cell makes no mention of him doing well vs the Cell Jrs, only Vegeta and Trunks who are half as strong as Goku is.
In the Boo arc he gets left behind and turned to stone. He's later shocked by SS Goten and Trunks. Boo does gain his appearance so maybe he's stronger than them, but it should only be a bit. He's also way beneath Shin, who some guidebooks place him at CG SS Goku level.
In RoF he stalemates Shisami who's one shot by a very rusty SS Gohan.
In U6 he can barely handle a very weakened Frost and claims he'd stand no chance. Frost of course is one shot by SS Vegeta and SS Goku plays with him.
In the ToP anime he does overpower SS2 Gohan, that's the first time we ever see him go beyond the base Saiyan tier. But in Superhero he's back to being relative to another rusty SS Gohan.

ToP and beyond his strength is arguable but beforehand he's always been beneath the Super Saiyans. While he should at the very least be 40-60% of the SSs, and not just base tier, Piccolo doing nothing is unfortunately par for the course.

[Koitsukai]

Piccolo was never SS level since the ROSAT. He's always been firmly somewhere between base and SS.

In the Cell arc, Cell makes no mention of him doing well vs the Cell Jrs, only Vegeta and Trunks who are half as strong as Goku is.
In the Boo arc he gets left behind and turned to stone. He's later shocked by SS Goten and Trunks. Boo does gain his appearance so maybe he's stronger than them, but it should only be a bit. He's also way beneath Shin, who some guidebooks place him at CG SS Goku level.
In RoF he stalemates Shisami who's one shot by a very rusty SS Gohan.
In U6 he can barely handle a very weakened Frost and claims he'd stand no chance. Frost of course is one shot by SS Vegeta and SS Goku plays with him.
In the ToP anime he does overpower SS2 Gohan, that's the first time we ever see him go beyond the base Saiyan tier. But in Superhero he's back to being relative to another rusty SS Gohan.

ToP and beyond his strength is arguable but beforehand he's always been beneath the Super Saiyans. While he should at the very least be 40-60% of the SSs, and not just base tier, Piccolo doing nothing is unfortunately par for the course.

Alright, that adds up except the being way beneath Shin part... how come Shin was nowhere near the action if he was so much stronger and the saiyans were pinned down and electrocuted several times? they were needing actual reinforcements (and they got them in the form of Kadan) and only got the weakest of the group to aid them?*
Before writing it off as bad writing, I'd reconsider his standing next to Shin, who has been portrayed much weaker than initially thought.

*The more I recall that episode, the more I feel it's like the storming of Naboo but with Nahare (Amidala) hiding instead of entering the castle.

[Yuji]

Even if Shin were the weakest fighter there, he's still a fighter. There's no reason he should be hiding that way. It's just nobody cares for the character unfortunately.

[Thani]

Which is, honestly, a shame. I really like Shin, from his design to his initial characterization at the tournament. Wish he had a bigger role to play.

[picc]

Piccolo's not SSJ level in the buu saga but he's still way above base. Daima got that one wrong.

He's also much stronger than Shin, who only intimidated him because of his divine aura.

[QuakingStar]

Gohan had been training since the Goku Black Saga, his fighting SENSES were still rusty since he hadn't actually been fighting. But his power was still higher than it was in the Buu Saga barring his Ultimate State. Piccolo still low diffed that SS2 Gohan which is the same Gohan who as a SS was sparring evenly with SS Goku beforehand. Piccolo in base by the time of the ToP was at the high end of the ToP SS2 tier.

[ZombieVito]

Gohan had been training since the Goku Black Saga, his fighting SENSES were still rusty since he hadn't actually been fighting. But his power was still higher than it was in the Buu Saga barring his Ultimate State. Piccolo still low diffed that SS2 Gohan which is the same Gohan who as a SS was sparring evenly with SS Goku beforehand. Piccolo in base by the time of the ToP was at the high end of the ToP SS2 tier.

He wasn't.

Piccolo was only SS2 tier from the Boo arc. The current base tier demolishes the Boo arc SS3 tier. After training with Gohan for those 2 days he surpasses Gotenks.

Base Goku > Base Vegeta > Base Gohan > Piccolo > SS3 Gotenks.

[picc]

Also, by the time Vegeta trashed Frost, he had already had two extended battles with Goku and Piccolo. It wasn't exactly fresh on fresh.

U6 tournament Piccolo wasn't on the SSJ's level but was right below. How strong the SSJs were at that point compared to Z is up for debate.

[Hugo Boss]

On another note, what's up with Piccolo being on par with the saiyans' base forms? I was hoping to see him do better than the saiyans in base, but that didn't happen.

Are their base forms stronger than we thought or is Piccolo not SS level anymore? could this be due to the wish? it shouldn't, I know, but still.

Dragon Ball Super has consistently portrayed Piccolo as weaker than SS1. His struggles against Shisami, Tagoma, and Frost all suggested he wasn’t quite on that level. The outlier was his training victories over SS1 and SS2 Gohan, but that likely resulted from narrative convenience. Outside of that, he was often grouped with Base Gohan, and his strongest showings relied on the Special Beam Cannon. Super Hero reinforced this by paralleling his forms with Gohan’s, with a clear gap between them (Beast > Orange > Ultimate > Awakened > SS1 > Piccolo > Base). Daima #15 likely just nerfed everyone to make King Kadan’s entrance more impactful.

[Yuji]

Huh, Piccolo knocks out Degesu in one hit and those Wafer stickers have Shin and Degesu at the same power level.

Maybe it's time to reevaluate Shin after all.

[dbgtFO]

Huh, Piccolo knocks out Degesu in one hit and those Wafer stickers have Shin and Degesu at the same power level.

Maybe it's time to reevaluate Shin after all.

He was already looking very questionable in the Buu Arc, being impressed by base Vegeta and everything, so not too big a deal for me. Just means Toriyama changed his mind fairly quickly and material since then just further corroborates that change in power placement.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

To be fair, Degesu was off-guard and got chopped in the throat.

That's bound to hurt like hell to anyone.

[Koitsukai]

I'm not sure how strong Degesu is, what's the standard level for Glinds, if they get some type of power up after becoming gods or even if they undergo any training like the Hakaishin do.

If they are somewhat all the same, then yeah, chibi Piccolo could never KO a Glind like that if he was so much weaker. The towel thrown in the Tenkaichi Budokai is starting to seem more and more like it was due to hierarchy instead of power level.

There's probably decent evidence for both interpretations, but the feeling I've been getting lately about Shin is that he is weaker than initially conceived.

[Hugo Boss]

As I mentioned in the Daima Strength Discussion Thread, Shin’s power is tricky to evaluate because his confidence in defeating Freeza may have been based on his divine status and magical abilities rather than raw power alone. Piccolo knocking out Degesu in one chop reinforces this standing, as whenever Shin’s pure power was put to test, he never was a threat to even Base Saiyans, being knocked out by a shockwave that Goku withstood.

[QuakingStar]

How do we know that Shin ever knew Frieza's actual full power? For all we know Shin never sensed Frieza's full power and only knew of his 1st forms power. Beerus himself likely made Frieza show him his full power at some point in the past.

[Hugo Boss]

How do we know that Shin ever knew Frieza's actual full power? For all we know Shin never sensed Frieza's full power and only knew of his 1st forms power. Beerus himself likely made Frieza show him his full power at some point in the past.

I agree. It’s strongly implied that few people knew about Freeza’s transformations. Shin’s lack of knowledge about Cell, and likely the events on Namek, supports this. Shin’s confidence might’ve been based on reputation rather than firsthand knowledge of Freeza’s max power. And given Beerus’s tendency to assess the strongest fighters himself, he’d have a clearer picture of his full might than Shin ever did.