New "Remastered Box Set" Information

nathantheguitarist · Post by **nathantheguitarist** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:36 am

Basicallly everything I want to say has been said.

These sets will rules.... except the fact that they cropped it.

The only way I see myself getting it, is if I can find it for 20 bucks or less, otherwise I'm affraid I'll be saving up for better things.

So besides the bitching, has anyone any info on what FUNi's booklet thing is about? I know it's going to be no where near the DragonBooks that come in the 1337 DragonBoxes, but I'm still interested if it's anything worth a look.

SonGokuGT · Post by **SonGokuGT** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:49 am

nathantheguitarist wrote:Basicallly everything I want to say has been said.

These sets will rules.... except the fact that they cropped it.

The only way I see myself getting it, is if I can find it for 20 bucks or less, otherwise I'm affraid I'll be saving up for better things.

So besides the bitching, has anyone any info on what FUNi's booklet thing is about? I know it's going to be no where near the DragonBooks that come in the 1337 DragonBoxes, but I'm still interested if it's anything worth a look.

I'm pretty sure they'll be along the lines of what was included with the Fullmetal Alchemist DVDs.

nathantheguitarist · Post by **nathantheguitarist** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:59 am

I hate to sound like a complete dumbass, but I haven't gotten a single FMA dvd.

I'd like to, but I'm forced to spend what little money I have on other things.

SonGokuGT · Post by **SonGokuGT** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:11 am

nathantheguitarist wrote:I hate to sound like a complete dumbass, but I haven't gotten a single FMA dvd.

I'd like to, but I'm forced to spend what little money I have on other things.

Just to clarify, they are just booklets about the series and characters and include character design sketches and promotional art. I didn't own any myself, but I've heard that FUNimation had some nice booklets for their Limited Edition "Samurai 7" sets.

Pieter · Post by **Pieter** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:13 am

About the colors of the dragon box remastered episodes: Nobody seems to complain about them, but I was watching the Saiyan Saga and I noticed the pictures all look very light and the colors are weak. People always said this was because it didn't have saturation, but adding saturation only made it worse for me.

Now I'm watching the episodes with a gamma setting of like 0.70/0.80 and some added contrast. Things look way better.

If you check it out, simply look at black hair. It's supposed to be black and not some greyish dark color.

ect5150 · Post by **ect5150** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:03 pm

Pieter wrote:About the colors of the dragon box remastered episodes: Nobody seems to complain about them, but I was watching the Saiyan Saga and I noticed the pictures all look very light and the colors are weak. People always said this was because it didn't have saturation, but adding saturation only made it worse for me.

Now I'm watching the episodes with a gamma setting of like 0.70/0.80 and some added contrast. Things look way better.

If you check it out, simply look at black hair. It's supposed to be black and not some greyish dark color.

I used to take this standpoint about the colors on Dragon Box as well. Then someone posted some scans of the original animation cells and I compared them to the single disc of the Dragon Box releases that I owned (disc 6, the end of the Saiyan arc).

But when I saw the original animation cells, I realized how off Funi's colors were and how close the DragonBox are... esp. so for the movies DragonBox.

Its tough to find a link as searching for "cell" with the words "Dragon Ball" always bring up a green guy with black spots

Pieter · Post by **Pieter** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:12 pm

ect5150 wrote:
Pieter wrote:About the colors of the dragon box remastered episodes: Nobody seems to complain about them, but I was watching the Saiyan Saga and I noticed the pictures all look very light and the colors are weak. People always said this was because it didn't have saturation, but adding saturation only made it worse for me.

Now I'm watching the episodes with a gamma setting of like 0.70/0.80 and some added contrast. Things look way better.

If you check it out, simply look at black hair. It's supposed to be black and not some greyish dark color.
I used to take this standpoint about the colors on Dragon Box as well. Then someone posted some scans of the original animation cells and I compared them to the single disc of the Dragon Box releases that I owned (disc 6, the end of the Saiyan arc).

But when I saw the original animation cells, I realized how off Funi's colors were and how close the DragonBox are... esp. so for the movies DragonBox.

Its tough to find a link as searching for "cell" with the words "Dragon Ball" always bring up a green guy with black spots

Well yea, but funimation's images are a lot different even when you mess with the contrast. It's just that black hair should really be black, and white eyes should really be white. We don't know much about cells do we? We don't know if the colors were final or if the samples we've seen are genuine. It doesn't really matter what's original though, it matters whats best for the eye. I can see for myself that colors of the remastered episodes aren't well calibrated. I admit though, I've often switched back and forth to see what's best.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:13 pm

If you check it out, simply look at black hair. It's supposed to be black and not some greyish dark color.

Your monitor/TV isn't adjusted properly. Snag a calibration disc (Digital Video Essentials and GetGray are the two I've used) and some THX gels and calibrate your system. Things will look 100x better, and you'll know why I say FUNi's colors burn my retinas. As an added bonus, everything else will look better too.

Its tough to find a link as searching for "cell" with the words "Dragon Ball" always bring up a green guy with black spots

True...though technically it's "Cel" instead of "Cell" ;p

-Corey

ect5150 · Post by **ect5150** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:26 pm

Pieter wrote:It doesn't really matter what's original though, it matters whats best for the eye.

I'm going to say I don't agree here and let others chime in as well. If you don't care, then you'll have no preference in any picture quality concerns.

Pieter wrote:We don't know much about cells do we? We don't know if the colors were final or if the samples we've seen are genuine.

Why would the colors on the original animation cels not be final or correct (assuming no physical damage)? These are what was used to actually make the show.

EDIT: Found the post, check this link ... the post at the top of the screen has the shots from the original cels from the extras out of the DragonBox

Maphisto86 · Post by **Maphisto86** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:17 pm

Ignoring my earlier comments born out of frustration over FUNImation's decisions I may get this set after all. It's as cheap as it is going to get and it's practically an entire saga on DVD. Considering that unlike many of you I don't have many Dragonball episodes I might just buy this one. I only have one of the Dragonball movies ("Cooler Returns" EDITED) which isin't even mine to begin with plus some random episodes from the Freeza saga. All of these being dubbed and on VHS. Though I'm a fan of the FUNI dub cast I also like having the Japanese audio and in DVD format.

The only contention I have with these episodes is the same as the majority of the fan base.... WIDESCREEN. I also don't want to be screwed by buying this and having this set canceled and the ideal, fullscreen format come out (or even the mighty Dragonbox dubbed here in North America). Yet since many of you have bought episodes over and over again while I haven't, I might as well get this set and see what happens. My only worry now is that I will be part of a sales figure that will cause FUNImation to not take our demands seriously.

Pieter · Post by **Pieter** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:21 pm

MajinVejitaXV wrote:
If you check it out, simply look at black hair. It's supposed to be black and not some greyish dark color.
Your monitor/TV isn't adjusted properly. Snag a calibration disc (Digital Video Essentials and GetGray are the two I've used) and some THX gels and calibrate your system. Things will look 100x better, and you'll know why I say FUNi's colors burn my retinas. As an added bonus, everything else will look better too.

Thanks for the tip. I've tried calibrating my monitor with adobe gamma. I'm afraid I don't know what 'THX gels' are though (neither does google).

I'm curious what you will find of the following snapshots I took. The right hand side shows what it's like after I messed with media player:

http://members.rott.chello.nl/j.brouwera/remastered.jpg
http://members.rott.chello.nl/j.brouwer ... tered2.jpg
http://members.rott.chello.nl/j.brouwer ... tered3.jpg
http://members.rott.chello.nl/j.brouwer ... tered4.jpg

In remastered3.jpg Tenshinan has dirty teeth on the left side, on my monitor that is. I'm curious how these compare for you.

Since all of you like comparing with Funi: http://members.rott.chello.nl/j.brouwer ... 912985.png
I'm not sure if funimation is responsible for this, this is from the ocean 1-53 episodes I happen to have on my computer. It amazes me how they succeeded in completely changing the colors, because I can only come close to this when I mess with RGB settings (in every scene). I don't strife for having the same colors though (!!).

ect5150 · Post by **ect5150** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:38 pm

Pieter wrote: http://members.rott.chello.nl/j.brouwera/remastered.jpg
http://members.rott.chello.nl/j.brouwer ... tered2.jpg
http://members.rott.chello.nl/j.brouwer ... tered3.jpg
http://members.rott.chello.nl/j.brouwer ... tered4.jpg

These look like bootleg images to me though (i.e. those AHQ videos that are out there. You can tell from the colors, the subtitle text via image 4 and the resolution, full DVD images 720 x 480 or 640 x 480 for aspect correction). I've a few of those eps on my hard drive as well as I buy the real versions, but they don't make well for comparing the real thing as those eps have had the colors altered before they encoded them.

The actual DVDs look like the 16mm scans DBW posted in the post I linked to earlier.

EDIT:

I know bootleg discussions really are supposed to appear here, but here is the bootleg version of the KamehameHa Goku is charging from the Saiyan fight from the popular bootlegs out there, and then I'm posting the same shot from the DragonBox. You can tell they altered the colors.

Sorry i didn't bother to change the aspect on my DragonBox image, but its because I yanked it a while back. Notice the red on Goku's chest. There are better examples in other scenes though, esp. looking at Piccolo in some of the earlier eps.

Pieter · Post by **Pieter** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:40 pm

Yes they are, that's no secret. I never would have guessed they changed the colors in the process though. I'll check it out.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:46 pm

Pieter wrote:Thanks for the tip. I've tried calibrating my monitor with adobe gamma. I'm afraid I don't know what 'THX gels' are though (neither does google).

Well, first of all I should have said THX filter gels, I'm just used to calling them gels because...well, that's what I'm used to people calling them. My bad.

As for the screens and so on, I'm at work and this monitor sucks, plus I can't draw judgement because JPG's are lossy and the first thing to go out on the window on compression is color and brightness/contrast. The PNG is useless too (no offense), because that color difference is the result of a damaged master and bad MPEG-2 compression.

It comes down to this: If you're going by 'what is best for the eye', FUNi/Toei would have to produce customized discs for each person buying them. That's why reference levels exist, so everyone is looking at the same image in terms of color, clarity and contrast. Personally, on my calibrated Pioneer television, I think the DragonBoxes look great. YMMV as always.

-Corey

ect5150 · Post by **ect5150** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:49 pm

Pieter wrote:Yes they are, that's no secret. I never would have guessed they changed the colors in the process though. I'll check it out.

See my post above for images because it was an edit.

The people that made them didn't know 100% what they were doing. They even decided to inverse telecine the video (to get rid of the interlacing), but DragonBox's were encoded as progressive images. All they did was actually introduce some interlacing where the filter they used was imperfect! Oh well.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:52 pm

ect5150 wrote:The people that made them didn't know 100% what they were doing. They even decided to inverse telecine the video (to get rid of the interlacing), but DragonBox's were encoded as progressive images. All they did was actually introduce some interlacing where the filter they used was imperfect! Oh well.

Yeah, they also applied a shitty 'blur' filter to eliminate the slight texture/grain the original has. They also seemingly pushed the reds, which is where the color difference comes from I *think*, never seen them personally.

They were probably following a 'how-to' guide, since most have you inverse telecine the MPEG-2 streams to get rid of interlacing (though most also tell you to run the VOB's thru MPEG2AVI to see the FPS and whether it's Progressive/Film or Interlaced first).

-Corey

ect5150 · Post by **ect5150** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:55 pm

I should also mention some Media Players use video overlay to display videos, and different video cards implementations of the overlay colors are altered by default. I'd check your video card settings as well. Its a small difference, but I can remember seeing where some NVidia drivers once had the default settings WAY off. Or you can grab a good media player (I'd recommend Media Player Classic) and tell it to use VRM9 instead of overlay.

Gokuden553 · Post by **Gokuden553** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:59 pm

I can see the difference in quality.

Pieter · Post by **Pieter** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:09 pm

ect5150 wrote:I should also mention some Media Players use video overlay to display videos, and different video cards implementations of the overlay colors are altered by default. I'd check your video card settings as well. Its a small difference, but I can remember seeing where some NVidia drivers once had the default settings WAY off. Or you can grab a good media player (I'd recommend Media Player Classic) and tell it to use VRM9 instead of overlay.

Thanks, I kinda found this out myself now. My NVidia overlay settings have a default contrast of 90%. It looks a lot better when I set it to 101% (I can't set it to 100% exactly... frustrating). All the renderers seem to do well, except VRM9 though, this one gives me lowered contrast.

Since fixing this the episodes look way better, without having to adjust contrast myself. The Nappa episodes is where I started complaining, these seem to have a lower contrast than my other episodes for some reason.

Akira · Post by **Akira** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:47 pm

Hey, thanks for the info on that THX Filter glasses link. I had no idea anything like that existed. I had a poor man's method that I have used for years to get the color/hue/sharpness/brightness just right.

I'd connect my Dreamcast with Component Cables, put in Sonic, and go to the character select screen. Knuckles is supposed to be Red, and Sonic Blue. If Sonic looks turquoise or Knuckles even the slightest bit Pink or Purple, I'd know something was off. I'd play with the controls until I got the Hue looking just right with the colors for two distinct definates like those two characters. Then I'd play a level of the game to make sure everything else looked correct.

That was the best way I knew to do it until I read about that. Thanks again for the info.