Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[ahill1]

Son Goku arc

Bear Bandit 32

Kuririn 35

Yamcha 45
~ Rogafufuken 52.5

Son Goku 50

Gyumao 93

Muten Roshi 148


21st Budokai

Orin Temple Bullies 45

Yamcha 60
~ Rogafufuken 70

Giran 80

Kuririn 100

Namu 145

Muten Roshi 148

Son Goku ( W/o Tail ) 110
~ W/ Tal 150


Red Ribbon Army Part 1

Colonel Silver 50

Ninja Murasaki 93

Sergeant Metallic 125

Son Goku 150


Red Ribbon Army Part 2

Kuririn 100

Pirate Robot 120

General Blue 135

Son Goku 168.75

Tao Pai Pai 370

Son Goku ( Post Karin ) 420

Karin 960


Uranai Baba

Dracula Man 53

Invisible Man 55

Yamcha 60
~ Rogafufuken 70

Kuririn 100

Mummy 170

Akkuman 255

Son Gohan 406

Son Goku 420


22nd Budokai

Chapa-o 420

Chaozu 470

Yamcha 485

Kuririn 500

Tsuru 625

Muten Roshi ( Vs Ten ) 666
~ Full Power ( Unseen ) 750

Tenshinhan 980

Son Goku ( Initial ) 504
~ Little more serious 625
~ Full Match Level 800
~ Full Power 1,000


Flashback

Tsuru ( Young ) 860

Roshi ( Young ) 870

Mutaito 950


Piccolo Daimao

Kuririn 500

Cymbal 562.5

Tambourine 800

Yajirobe 888

Karin 960

Tenshinhan 980

Son Goku 1,000

Piccolo Daimao Old ( Initial ) 950
~ 40% 2,000
~ 100% ( Unseen ) 5,000

Drum 1,600

Piccolo Daimao Young ( Initial ) 6,667
~ Full Power 9,750

Son Goku ( Post Sacred Water ) 10,000

Mr. Popo 18,000

Kami 36,000


23rd Budokai

Chapa-o 562.5

Chaozu 4,166

Yajirobe 4,667

Chi Chi 5,000

Cyborg Tao Pai Pai 6,667

Yamcha 8,200

Kuririn 8,500

Tenshinhan 12,000

Kami 36,000
~ Shen 32,400

Piccolo Jr. ( Initial ) 9,000
~ Powered Up ( Vs Kuririn ) 10,200
~ Powered Up ( Vs Shen ) 36,000
~ Warm Up ( Vs Goku ) 36,000
~ Full Power 60,000

Son Goku ( Weighted )
------------------------speed 10,000
------------------------strength 12,500
~ W/o Weights ( Vs Ten ) 18,000
~ Tenshinhan's estimation 27,000
~ Warm Up ( Vs Piccolo ) 36,000
~ Full Power 61,000

[Noah]

Spoiler:

Piccolo Jr. ( Initial ) 9,000
~ Powered Up ( Vs Kuririn ) 10,200
~ Powered Up ( Vs Shen ) 36,000
~ Warm Up ( Vs Goku ) 36,000
~ Full Power 60,000

Son Goku ( Weighted )
------------------------speed 10,000
------------------------strength 12,500
~ W/o Weights ( Vs Ten ) 18,000
~ Tenshinhan's estimation 27,000
~ Warm Up ( Vs Piccolo ) 36,000
~ Full Power 61,000

And considering that your BP list fully fits in the manga/anime context, like 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai Goku having 61,000 BP and Piccolo 60,000, why the f*** they struggle against Raditz officially stated to have 1,200 to 1,500 BP?

[DanielSSJ]

Spoiler:

Piccolo Jr. ( Initial ) 9,000
~ Powered Up ( Vs Kuririn ) 10,200
~ Powered Up ( Vs Shen ) 36,000
~ Warm Up ( Vs Goku ) 36,000
~ Full Power 60,000

Son Goku ( Weighted )
------------------------speed 10,000
------------------------strength 12,500
~ W/o Weights ( Vs Ten ) 18,000
~ Tenshinhan's estimation 27,000
~ Warm Up ( Vs Piccolo ) 36,000
~ Full Power 61,000

And considering that your BP list fully fits in the manga/anime context, like 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai Goku having 61,000 BP and Piccolo 60,000, why the f*** they struggle against Raditz officially stated to have 1,200 to 1,500 BP?

I don't think his list is supposed to be on the same scale as the Scouter numbers.

[Blackstripe]

And considering that your BP list fully fits in the manga/anime context, like 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai Goku having 61,000 BP and Piccolo 60,000, why the f*** they struggle against Raditz officially stated to have 1,200 to 1,500 BP?

I'm pretty sure his list is supposed to be one of those "taking all Dragon Ball statements literally and ignore inconsistencies created by Z" lists. Some people do those. They can be interesting.

I can't believe this is still a thing.

We have a stronger character saying that a weaker one is faster.

A 10 in strength does not warrantied a 10 in speed. PERIOD.

And I point out immediately that Ginyu seems to ultimately have no trouble keeping up with Gokuu and felt confident in his victory until he used Kaioken. Even if there was a meaningful difference in speed, clearly this isn't something to be overly concerned about. 90,000 can't defeat 120,000.

You're arguing that Tenshinhan can somehow be weaker than King Piccolo, yet so fast that he could plausibly beat a Gokuu that, even with weights on, is even stronger now than when he defeated King Piccolo!

You would rather portray Ten as an idiot (when evidence shows he's anything but that), than contradict the Daizenshuu (which is becoming ever more irrelevant anyhow).

He felt confident in beating Gokuu. If all he had was "speed", it wouldn't be enough to make him feel like he could plausibly win. That's why Gokuu used Kaioken against Ginyu, because he knew it wouldn't matter even if he was a bit lighter on his feet.

Power levels are rather linear. 6 beats 5 which beats 4. Don't try and pretend there's something deeper to it.

[DanielSSJ]

And considering that your BP list fully fits in the manga/anime context, like 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai Goku having 61,000 BP and Piccolo 60,000, why the f*** they struggle against Raditz officially stated to have 1,200 to 1,500 BP?

I'm pretty sure his list is supposed to be one of those "taking all Dragon Ball statements literally and ignore inconsistencies created by Z" lists. Some people do those. They can be interesting.

I can't believe this is still a thing.

We have a stronger character saying that a weaker one is faster.

A 10 in strength does not warrantied a 10 in speed. PERIOD.

And I point out immediately that Ginyu seems to ultimately have no trouble keeping up with Gokuu and felt confident in his victory until he used Kaioken. Even if there was a meaningful difference in speed, clearly this isn't something to be overly concerned about. 90,000 can't defeat 120,000.

You're arguing that Tenshinhan can somehow be weaker than King Piccolo, yet so fast that he could plausibly beat a Gokuu that, even with weights on, is even stronger now than when he defeated King Piccolo!

You would rather portray Ten as an idiot (when evidence shows he's anything but that), than contradict the Daizenshuu (which is becoming ever more irrelevant anyhow).

He felt confident in beating Gokuu. If all he had was "speed", it wouldn't be enough to make him feel like he could plausibly win. That's why Gokuu used Kaioken against Ginyu, because he knew it wouldn't matter even if he was a bit lighter on his feet.

Power levels are rather linear. 6 beats 5 which beats 4. Don't try and pretend there's something deeper to it.

Why don't you two just agree to disagree?

[Truhan]

As promised, I'm going to make a battle power list (yes, I know. Another one...), but this time following some rules. They'll start at Namek with the Freeza battle, and move towards the Cell saga, ending with Babidi as a revision of everything before it. The increases will consist of 1.25 and 1.6 times their battle power, or 2 times (which is the same as 1.25 times 1.6), with the reason being: SSJ is 1.25 times a hypothetical Kaioken x40, which in turn is 2 times Kaioken x20. If we multiply SSJ by 1.6 (which is the next in line), we have 80, as four times the last Kaioken we saw from Goku.

[Freeza Battle]

SSJ Goku - 150'000k
100% Freeza - 120'000k

[Future Trunks Arrival]

SSJ Goku - 240'000k
SSJ Trunks - 187'500k
Mecha Freeza - 150'000k

[Androids Show Up]

SSJ Vegeta - 300'000k
SSJ Trunks - 300'000k
Piccolo - 240'000k
Android 17 (100%) - 480'000k

[Cell Transforms]

Piccolo - 480'000k
Imperfect Cell - 600'000k
Semi-Perfect Cell - 750'000k
Grade II SSJ Vegeta - 960'000k (Strength and Speed)
Grade III SSJ Trunks - 1'200'000k (Strength)

[Cell Games]

Piccolo - 960'000k
Perfect Cell - 1'500'000k
SSJ Goku - 1'200'000k (Full Power)
SSJ Gohan - 1'500'000k (Full Power)
SSJ2 Gohan - 3'000'000k
Super Perfect Cell - 2'400'000k

[Babidi's Ship]

SSJ Goku - 1'920'000k
SSJ Gohan - 1'875'000k
SSJ2 Goku - 3'840'000k
Majin Vegeta - 3'840'000k
SSJ Goten - 187'500k
SSJ Trunks - 192'000k

---

I'm tired now, but the exercise was fun, and I think the numbers are faithful without being 100% accurate, because I set some rules for myself. If you're interested in my Buu saga numbers, I'll continue, although they are based on transformation multipliers, rather than small increases. Interesting enough, Goku is 38'400k at base, which is still lower than Freeza. Goten and Trunks are fighting capable as SSJ against Namek Freeza.

[Noah]

Spoiler:

Super Perfect Cell - 2'400'000k

[Babidi's Ship]

SSJ Goku - 2'400'000k
SSJ Gohan - 1'875'000k
SSJ2 Vegeta - 3'840'000k
SSJ2 Goku - 4'800'000k
Majin Vegeta - 4'800'000k
SSJ Goten - 187'500k
SSJ Trunks - 192'000k

I think the gap between SPC and SSJ2 Goku, Majin Vegeta is way to big, IMHO

[Truhan]

Ok, I've corrected them. Are they better? The problem is one implication that Vegeta didn't gain strength from his Majin seal. It's a small trade off for more consistent numbers.

[ahill1]

Spoiler:

Piccolo Jr. ( Initial ) 9,000
~ Powered Up ( Vs Kuririn ) 10,200
~ Powered Up ( Vs Shen ) 36,000
~ Warm Up ( Vs Goku ) 36,000
~ Full Power 60,000

Son Goku ( Weighted )
------------------------speed 10,000
------------------------strength 12,500
~ W/o Weights ( Vs Ten ) 18,000
~ Tenshinhan's estimation 27,000
~ Warm Up ( Vs Piccolo ) 36,000
~ Full Power 61,000

And considering that your BP list fully fits in the manga/anime context, like 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai Goku having 61,000 BP and Piccolo 60,000, why the f*** they struggle against Raditz officially stated to have 1,200 to 1,500 BP?

I don't follow scouter numbers while doing Dragon Ball battle powers since I don't they are accurate.

[Doctor.]

Don't you think you're being very pretentious with that way of thinking?

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

I don't think so. It's his own fan-made scale, I don't see it as any different than writing a fan-fiction or anything as long as one doesn't treat their battle powers as fact.

[Doctor.]

But he said he thinks they're inaccurate. He said he thinks that something stated in the series, something factual, something canon, is not accurate.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Whoops, didn't see that. I also find them a bit odd, Roshi being over 1/3rd of Goku's strength? But I am forced accept them nonetheless.

[DanielSSJ]

Whoops, didn't see that. I also find them a bit odd, Roshi being over 1/3rd of Goku's strength? But I am forced accept them nonetheless.

As far as Roshi being 1/3 of Goku's strength, it's possible that 416 wasn't Goku's full power. Just an "at rest" power. His true strength could be closer to his 942 "Kamehameha" power level. This is all conjecture ofcourse.

[Kaboom]

You can't really blame the official pre-Raditz numbers for being what they are, since Toriyama kind of imposed an absolute maximum for them with Goku and Piccolo's 300-400 range scouter readings. It's really difficult if not impossible to take every power or performance statement in the early story literally and still end up with numbers below 400. If Goku and Piccolo's powers were just a little higher, at like 600 or something, it might be a different story, but alas. So what else could the staff at Shueisha really do but pick some numbers that were fairly well-spaced?

Fortunately, "power level" wasn't the be-all, end-all factor in fights for most of that part of the story, and there's stuff like drastic ki manipulation blurring the lines between "normal" and "full" power, and so on... so there's various ways of working with those numbers if you want to.

[Noah]

Don't you have a DB BP list, Kaboom?

[ekrolo2]

Well, guess it's time for my own WFHC (worthless fucking headcannon) power level list, I won't bother with the pre-Android stuff since everyone and their mom knows it up until the end of the Cell stuff. I'll work do Boo once I figure out what to do about Gotenks.

Spoiler:

FUTURE TRUNKS SAGA:

Trunks - 3,000,000
Super Saiyan - 150,000,000

Mecha-Freeza - 4,000,000
Unseen max power - 150,000,000

King Cold - 5,000,000
Unseen max power - 100,000,000

Goku - 3,400,000
Super Saiyan - 170,000,000

Vegeta - 3,000,000

Piccolo - 2,800,000

Tien - 70,000

Krillin - 80,000

Yamcha - 50,000

Chiaotzu - no one cares, no one


ANDROID SAGA:

Goku - 4,500,000
Super Saiyan - 225,000,000
Dying - rapidly draining
Near death - 500,000 and dropping until he gets the cure

Vegeta - 4,600,000
Super Saiyan - 230,000,000

Piccolo - 10,000,000
Max power - 200,000,000

Gohan - 3,000,000

Krillin - 900,000

Tien - 800,000

Yamcha - 600,000

Android 19 - 160,000,000

Android 20 - 160,000,000

Android 17 - 400,000,000

Android 18 - 390,000,000
Against Vegeta - 250,000,000

Android 16 - 450,000,000

CELL SAGA: PART ONE

Kamiccolo - 350,000,000
Max power, against 17 - 400,000,000

Imperfect Cell - 360,000,000
Against Android 16 - 450,000,000

Semi-Perfect Cell - 850,000,000

Tien's Shin Kikoho - incalculable, seriously, this one's a logistical nightmare to figure out

Vegeta - 13,000,000
Super Saiyan - 650,000,000
Grade 2 - 975,000,000 (base x75)
Final Flash - 1,100,000,000

Trunks - 12,500,000
Super Saiyan - 625,000,000
Grade 2 - 937,500,000
Grade 3 - 1,200,000,000 - 1,500,000,000 (this one just increases power the more you focus, there is no set multiplier)

Perfect Cell - 1,100,000,000
Buff - 1,800,000,000

CELL SAGA PART DEUX: CELL GAMES

Goku - 50,000,000
Relaxed MSSJ - 1,500,000,000
Max power - 2,500,000,000

Vegeta - 32,000,000
Super Saiyan - 1,600,000,000
Trunks rage out - same as his SSJ, Vegeta hasn't stolen Gohan's rage boost yet

Trunks - 31,000,000
Super Saiyan - 1,550,000,000

Piccolo - 1,400,000,000

The humans - same as before

Gohan - 65,000,000
Relaxed MSSJ - 2,000,000,000
Max MSSJ - 3,250,000,000
Rage boost SSJ2 - 7,500,000,000

Cell Jrs - Varying between 1,500,000,000 to 2,000,000,000 depending on their mood for any given enemy.

Cell - 1,500,000,000
Against Goku - 2,600,000,000
Initially against Gohan - 3,250,000,000
Max power - 3,750,000,000
Buff form - 4,500,000,000
Upon blowing up - 300,000,000

Super Perfect Cell - 7,500,000,000
Against Gohan & Goku's Kamehameha - 8,000,000,000

Injured Gohan - 5,000,000,000
Father & son Kamehameha - 7,500,000,000

[ZombieVito]

King Cold - 5,000,000
Unseen max power - 170,000,000

Freeza was confirmed to be stronger than his father.

Chiaotzu - no one cares, no one

Raises hand.

[ekrolo2]

King Cold - 5,000,000
Unseen max power - 170,000,000

Freeza was confirmed to be stronger than his father.

Was he? I remember the Kai dubbing having stated that his power was greater than Freeza's but that must've been in their relaxed states only.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

I don't think Trunks and Mecha Freeza should be equals.

Chapter: 331 (DBZ 137), P9.1
Context: challenging Freeza and Cold
Trunks: “Come at me at full power right from the start. I’m not soft like Son Goku…”