Lack of tension in Dragonball?

[gogeta1231]

So recently I have been introducing my friend to Dragonball, I of course started with the first Dragonball, now that he is found out about how humans can be revived by the Dragonballs, he is finding it really boring. I really thought Krillin's death near the end of Dragonball would get him at least somewhat emotional and interested in Dragonball. Although he didn't, he said it was quite predictable he would be revived. So what do you guys think, do you think reviving people with the Dragonball has made Dragonball less interesting and predictable? Do you think it would have been better without it?

[Wezenheim]

The dragon balls have always been a double edged sword in my eyes. Yes, they do tend to take away from the danger a bit. However they can be a great way of "killing" a member of the main cast to establish the danger/strength of a villain. A good example of this is when Nappa killed almost every Z warrior. Sure, they were revived in the end and you kind of figured that they would be, but I was wondering how in the world Goku was going to fight people who were that strong. That doesn't really apply anymore since Goku's on a whole other level now, but knowing that Nappa was so strong and that Vegeta was even stronger still added to the tension, at least to me. Plus it can be used so that a main character can "lose" without being written out of the story. It depends on how the arc is told.

[Cipher]

I think you have to find the series charming for other reasons to come in and be really enthralled by it as an adult.

But anyway, wait until Piccolo kills Shen-Long. I think certain portions of the series manage to feel quite tense regardless of the outs the characters have--the Boo arc especially.

[B]

As Cipher said, your friend has to get to the part where Piccolo literally kills Shenlong. Unless he's vaguely familiar with Dragon Ball as a whole and knows Kuririn makes it to the end, that should be a powerful moment. I'd argue even with that knowledge it doesn't take away from the show's direction or dramatic framing.

Dragon Ball "lacking tension" always seemed like such a nebulous complaint. If literally everybody is killed, as in, also Piccolo, the DBs won't work and there wouldn't be anyone around to find them anyway if they did. I blame the anime portraying Heaven and Hell like a hang-out spot, and possibly even the dub not 100% explaining that the vast majority of people do not keep their bodies after they die.

[TheUltimateVegito]

As Cipher said, your friend has to get to the part where Piccolo literally kills Shenlong. Unless he's vaguely familiar with Dragon Ball as a whole and knows Kuririn makes it to the end, that should be a powerful moment. I'd argue even with that knowledge it doesn't take away from the show's direction or dramatic framing.

Dragon Ball "lacking tension" always seemed like such a nebulous complaint. If literally everybody is killed, as in, also Piccolo, the DBs won't work and there wouldn't be anyone around to find them anyway if they did. I blame the anime portraying Heaven and Hell like a hang-out spot, and possibly even the dub not 100% explaining that the vast majority of people do not keep their bodies after they die.

This.

The tension was still there despite the Dragon Balls looming (Although the Dragon Balls can be destroyed or powerless). Sure death wasn't the deathiest death in all of deathdoom but it didn't detract from the storytelling as a whole. It can easily be written where a powerful force destroys souls too or something similar to limbo and boom death is the same as any other (Actually limbo would be worse than dying when you think about it), but that won't make the storytelling itself any better. There are also other great stories out there where death isn't part of the story. So when you look at it from that perspective, why is death in Dragon Ball a complaint when it added its own unique flavour to its story? Does that mean every great story needs that dire of a consequence to be the best it can be? I think not.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

I've grown to see it this way: there are many entertainments across all media that "play if safe"; no lead character is going to die, no great disaster is going to actually rend the world, etc. Dragon Ball is only different for coming out and saying it. It sort of asks the viewer/reader to walk- however briefly- into this strange overlap between looking at the fiction logistically and critically, and simply enjoying the story.

I too will plug Buu. Toonami, 2002, I went into the Buu knowing that Goku could IT to New Namek, Dende was the new guardian so Piccolo could enter the fray without risking the Dragon Balls, a vague description of what Buu was and how he changed as a his moral makeup did, and that "Goku eventually killed him", the latter two thanks to glorious janky Pojo magazine summaries circa 2001. Yet I kept watching week-to-week, because I was intrigued by Buu's hyperbolic character shifts, his turning every little mistake the heroes made into a major advantage, his (metaphorically) eating Vegeta's resolute suicide, his killing the entire supporting cast in an instant, etc. Not once did my mind go back to New Namek prior to its being brought up in the story itself: I was having too much fun watching characters I had seen on and off for the past four years meeting their reckoning.

[KameRule]

When I'm watching or reading Dragon Ball, I never find myself thinking too hard about these kinds of things anyway. Like how, in the struggle between Cell and Gohan, Cell destroying the planet feels like a real threat because, if everyone is killed, who's going to wish everything back to normal again?

When you step back and realise that any of the fighters could use Kaio to contact New Namek and ask them to fix everything, it does soften the impact of the struggle a little bit. But I don't just pause the episode during the Kamehameha clash and declare stuff like that in the middle of watching it. One, because I'm emotionally invested enough that I don't think about stuff like that, and two, because I'd feel like an asshole if I did.

[Cetra]

I watch every typical good vs evil story even though I know the outcome of 98% of those stories: The good ones win.

It is about how it happens and how it is presented.

Take Fukkatsu no F for example. I would have preferred Freeza to win instead of this. He in the end could still have ultimately lost after a good writen saga but for that time he could have had his victory.

[Doctor.]

Like I've stated a few times, Dragon Ball's tension comes from the question "will we be able to revive them?" rather than the question "will anyone die?" like in other series. There's a significant loss of tension, yes, when we know that there are multiple ways to undo what the villains did (two sets of DBs and, more recently, Whis' time travel), but arcs can still be tense as long as you take those ways out of the picture or at least make them very difficult to use (like in the Saiyan and Namek arcs).

[fadeddreams5]

I'd never start with the first series if I was introducing someone to Dragon Ball. =P

[DoomieDoomie911]

I'd never start with the first series if I was introducing someone to Dragon Ball. =P

Why? It's the best way to get to know the characters and settings. It's much easier to start watching something from the very beginning than it is to start in the middle (which is basically what you're doing when you start from Z).

[Hellspawn28]

You should always start with the first series first. Like starting with the Phantom Blood arc first before watching the later JoJo stuff.

[Soppa Saia People]

I'd never start with the first series if I was introducing someone to Dragon Ball. =P

Why ? It tells you about the characters and who they are, why Piccolo is a threat and why it's a shock when you find out Goku is a saiyan.

[dbzfan7]

Without a doubt. Though tension has still been placed by rules such as "Can't be revived more than once". The Namek balls after their inception were also taken away to an unknown area for some time, but then turns out didn't take too long to be found. The worst thing is when the balls became super balls. Now the Namek Balls can bring back as many people with no limits, and undo any problem. So all tension is pretty much lost. "Everyone dies?" Have Kaio contact the nameks and now everyone can come back without any limits. Whis' ability only adds yet another safety net. I'm also unaware how they can bring back big populations like in ROF when everyone on earth died when Boo blew it up. So that means bringing back anyone afterwards shouldn't really be possible unless they're newborn or something.

[fadeddreams5]

Why? It's the best way to get to know the characters and settings. It's much easier to start watching something from the very beginning than it is to start in the middle (which is basically what you're doing when you start from Z).

Why ? It tells you about the characters and who they are, why Piccolo is a threat and why it's a shock when you find out Goku is a saiyan.

Blunt answer? Because the Dragon Ball anime is pretty dull, especially by today's standards. I assume reading the manga is a lot more enjoyable. If TC was talking about the manga in the first place, disregard what I've said.

It's preferable to start with the first series when you're a kid. I think irreality mentioned to me that a lot of countries besides Japan broadcasted this series in chronological order, resulting in the same level of success as in the US, and that makes sense. But if you're a fan introducing it to a dude who I assume is either a teenager or young adult, you kind of want to hook him immediately because people of that age have less of an attention span or patience to follow shows. DBZ does that better. Then, he'd likely watch Dragon Ball on his own accord.

[ShadowDude112]

I'd never start with the first series if I was introducing someone to Dragon Ball. =P

I started with the beginning when I introduced my friend to the series through the manga. She ended up loving it and she loved Kid Goku and Krillin. It helps since I started her at the beginning of the series and not when Raditz showed up.

[ekrolo2]

The original DB anime is pretty boring but the manga is pretty good. If I was giving it to a kid I'd probably show them DB first but for someone older I'd let them start with Z.

[Doctor.]

Why? It's the best way to get to know the characters and settings. It's much easier to start watching something from the very beginning than it is to start in the middle (which is basically what you're doing when you start from Z).

Why ? It tells you about the characters and who they are, why Piccolo is a threat and why it's a shock when you find out Goku is a saiyan.

Blunt answer? Because the Dragon Ball anime is pretty dull, especially by today's standards. I assume reading the manga is a lot more enjoyable. If TC was talking about the manga in the first place, disregard what I've said.

It's preferable to start with the first series when you're a kid. I think irreality mentioned to me that a lot of countries besides Japan broadcasted this series in chronological order, resulting in the same level of success as in the US, and that makes sense. But if you're a fan introducing it to a dude who I assume is either a teenager or young adult, you kind of want to hook him immediately because people of that age have less of an attention span or patience to follow shows. DBZ does that better. Then, he'd likely watch Dragon Ball on his own accord.

Z is even worse. Start him off with Kai.

[fadeddreams5]

Why? It's the best way to get to know the characters and settings. It's much easier to start watching something from the very beginning than it is to start in the middle (which is basically what you're doing when you start from Z).

Why ? It tells you about the characters and who they are, why Piccolo is a threat and why it's a shock when you find out Goku is a saiyan.

Blunt answer? Because the Dragon Ball anime is pretty dull, especially by today's standards. I assume reading the manga is a lot more enjoyable. If TC was talking about the manga in the first place, disregard what I've said.

It's preferable to start with the first series when you're a kid. I think irreality mentioned to me that a lot of countries besides Japan broadcasted this series in chronological order, resulting in the same level of success as in the US, and that makes sense. But if you're a fan introducing it to a dude who I assume is either a teenager or young adult, you kind of want to hook him immediately because people of that age have less of an attention span or patience to follow shows. DBZ does that better. Then, he'd likely watch Dragon Ball on his own accord.

Z is even worse. Start him off with Kai.

Eh. He can start with either. Just have to tell him which filler episodes to skip from DBZ. lol.

[DoomieDoomie911]

Why? It's the best way to get to know the characters and settings. It's much easier to start watching something from the very beginning than it is to start in the middle (which is basically what you're doing when you start from Z).

Why ? It tells you about the characters and who they are, why Piccolo is a threat and why it's a shock when you find out Goku is a saiyan.

Blunt answer? Because the Dragon Ball anime is pretty dull, especially by today's standards. I assume reading the manga is a lot more enjoyable. If TC was talking about the manga in the first place, disregard what I've said.

It's preferable to start with the first series when you're a kid. I think irreality mentioned to me that a lot of countries besides Japan broadcasted this series in chronological order, resulting in the same level of success as in the US, and that makes sense. But if you're a fan introducing it to a dude who I assume is either a teenager or young adult, you kind of want to hook him immediately because people of that age have less of an attention span or patience to follow shows. DBZ does that better. Then, he'd likely watch Dragon Ball on his own accord.

I didn't realize you were talking about the anime. I thought you meant starting with Z in general (manga or anime).