Thoughts on SSJ2 Teen Gohan

[ekrolo2]

As for Gohan being unlikable well I'd argue everyone but FT is a completely unlikable shit head in the Cell Saga who deserved to get whatever fate they sowed for themselves by not killing Gero like Bulma told them to. Gohan intentionally keeping Cell alive only to torture and humiliate him instead of just killing him during their first Kamehameha clash is just the latest of these Cell Saga related instances.

You know to be fair, Trunks seems fully aware of the Dragon Balls and the ability to locate them, so there was nothing stopping him from enacting that plan himself. So you might have to add him to that list of unlikable heroes as well.

Did Trunks do it because of stupid Saiyan logic with a large dose of selfishness? No just out of sheer stupidity, something he actively tries to work against when he tries preventing Cell reaching his perfect form and urges Krillin to give Goku a Senzu so he can take out the weakened Cell. Hell, Trunks even feels ashamed for how royally he messed up by trying to use Grade 3 to defeat Cell which is more than I can say for the others. Everyone else is just thinking & acting like Vegeta and Goku because stupid Saiyan logic trumps all now, putting their own selfishness (Goku, Vegeta, Krillin) or stupid honor system (everyone) for no discernable reason.

And when FT comes back to his own time, he doesn't take any chances. He doesn't let 17 and 18 live just for the thrill of Cell absorbing them just for a challenge, he wipes out all of Gero's remaining Androids with ruthless effeciency.

[Doctor.]

The only thing I blame Trunks on is trusting Goku. But that's sheer naivety rather than stupidity or selfishness.

[Lord Beerus]

I hated SSJ2 Kid Gohan, mainly due to the fact the build up to the moment is so contrived. If Toriyama spent more time developing #16's character and building a more believable relationship between Gohan and #16, the moment Gohan became a SSJ2 for the first time would have been perfect. I also don't like how Gohan fans interpret SSJ2 Kid Gohan as his "true" character and how he regressed after that because he never acted like how was as a SSJ2 at the Cell Games after that point in the sotry. Gohan being a SSJ2 at the Cell Games was the first time he was OOC. You're not supposed to impressed by what has happened, you're supposed to be frightened as what Gohan could do next. The entire point of the transformation goes over so many fans heads.

[LuckyCat]

I also don't like how Gohan fans interpret SSJ2 Kid Gohan as his "true" character and how he regressed after that because he never acted like how was as a SSJ2 at the Cell Games after that point in the sotry. Gohan being a SSJ2 at the Cell Games was the first time he was OOC. You're not supposed to impressed by what has happened, you're supposed to be frightened as what Gohan could do next. The entire point of the transformation goes over so many fans heads.

Wow, do Gohan fans really say that? I guess you could argue that the Cell games were sort of a coming of age story for Gohan, but him going SSJ2 was indeed supposed to be terrifying. If anything, the "coming of age" for Gohan should be after his father dies and coaches him into using his crazy power with adult-like responsibility.

[Kuririn Fan]

I absolutely despise Gohan, his ssj2 form was a culmination of that hatred. The only time i kinda liked him was as a Great Saiyaman. He's the only thing i'll forever hate about Dragon Ball, thank Kami he didn't became protagonist, i honestly have no idea what was Toriyama thinking with all of this.

[Lord Beerus]

I also don't like how Gohan fans interpret SSJ2 Kid Gohan as his "true" character and how he regressed after that because he never acted like how was as a SSJ2 at the Cell Games after that point in the sotry. Gohan being a SSJ2 at the Cell Games was the first time he was OOC. You're not supposed to impressed by what has happened, you're supposed to be frightened as what Gohan could do next. The entire point of the transformation goes over so many fans heads.

Wow, do Gohan fans really say that?

All the time. It's one of, if not the biggest complaint, that Gohan fanboys make about the character. That his SSJ2 Cell Games incarnation is how he should have been, or at the very least, he should have returned to that characterisation in the Majin Boo arc and beyond and stayed that way forever. It's all because in their eyes, him as SSJ2 at the Cell Games was the "badass" moment for him and the fact he decided to act like a normal kid and teenager after that was Toriyama "dropping the ball".

[Lunatic Fringe]

One problem is the dub music makes them out to be BADASS scenes. Kikuchi uses a scarier track for the transformations. Then dub people get all offended when told that they completely missed the point.

What about people who have the manga version of the scene in mind? Can't really say that there's music to tell them what they "should" be experiencing.

[Kamiccolo9]

One problem is the dub music makes them out to be BADASS scenes. Kikuchi uses a scarier track for the transformations. Then dub people get all offended when told that they completely missed the point.

What about people who have the manga version of the scene in mind? Can't really say that there's music to tell them what they "should" be experiencing.

No, they just missed the point.

[MozillaVulpix]

One problem is the dub music makes them out to be BADASS scenes. Kikuchi uses a scarier track for the transformations. Then dub people get all offended when told that they completely missed the point.

Unmei no Hi isn't particularly scary. Although the Kikuchi track for Goku going Super Saiyan is.

The actual initial transformation in the anime is supposed to be kind of inspiring. Hence the insert song about overcoming your limits and fulfilling your destiny. It's only once Gohan starts literally cutting up the Cell Jrs into pieces (something which the anime censored, for some reason) that you realise it might not be such a good thing.

[Vijay]

It was badass like for what? 2 episodes at most?

It got monotonous after a point. (You give stern look evrn after crushin Cell Jr's body parts, after Cell powering-up to 100%, AFTER crushing FP Cell with 2 hits, AFTER counter-attack Solar KHH. Like Dude!!! Give me a break)

I felt his overall ineffective nature is to be blamed.

He never had legitimate skills, prowess or commanding presence as Goku/Veggie/Piccolo to be imposing in da 1st place

[KentalSSJ6]

One problem is the dub music makes them out to be BADASS scenes. Kikuchi uses a scarier track for the transformations. Then dub people get all offended when told that they completely missed the point.

Well for Gohan the Japanese dub had Kageyama's Tamashi VS Tamashi song play and I would hardly call that a scary music track. Perhaps in the following episode/episodes the Kikuchi tracks added the darker tone but for his initial transformation, it was a inspirational Jpop/rock song.

[Metalwario64]

Vegeta himself said that SSJ made him more on the edge.

A line that was omitted from the original Z dub in place of a generic "robot = toaster" one liner.

Also, pet peeve. OP, you acknowledge that Gohan is "9 or 11." So why call him "teen" Gohan?

That's what's used in the games. For some reason, there's a portion of the fanbase that insists on using all of the terminology from the games religiously, and I don't get it. I'm not pointing fingers at the original poster, it's a pretty broad statement.

[Khin]

Whether he is 9 or 11,fans calling him as ''Teen'' Gohan and calling the Buu Saga Gohan as ''Adult'' Gohan bugs me.

I hated SSJ2 Kid Gohan, mainly due to the fact the build up to the moment is so contrived. If Toriyama spent more time developing #16's character and building a more believable relationship between Gohan and #16, the moment Gohan became a SSJ2 for the first time would have been perfect. I also don't like how Gohan fans interpret SSJ2 Kid Gohan as his "true" character and how he regressed after that because he never acted like how was as a SSJ2 at the Cell Games after that point in the sotry. Gohan being a SSJ2 at the Cell Games was the first time he was OOC. You're not supposed to impressed by what has happened, you're supposed to be frightened as what Gohan could do next. The entire point of the transformation goes over so many fans heads.

You nailed it,this is also the main reason why i hate SSj2 Kid Gohan.About the fans,majority of the fanbase seem to like any character that his ''badass'' no matter if they're OOC or have almost no character at all.Which is why guys like Broli is so popular.

[NitroEX]

I hated SSJ2 Kid Gohan, mainly due to the fact the build up to the moment is so contrived. If Toriyama spent more time developing #16's character and building a more believable relationship between Gohan and #16, the moment Gohan became a SSJ2 for the first time would have been perfect.

I keep seeing this argument come up but you're basically grasping at straws here, the moment isn't any more contrived than anything else in Dragonball. There doesn't need to be a relationship between 16 and Gohan for his death to have an impact. From an audience perspective we know 16 is kind and gentle and this makes us feel sadness and compassion for him. From Gohan's perspective he sees a life being snuffed out in front of him which is an unjust and cruel act. He feels compassion for 16 not only because of the speech (which is as much bonding as you need between the two) but also because he's the type of character that clearly cares for all living things, Android or not.

It amazes me how people can find all sorts of rationalisations for why Gohan shouldn't have mystic (or even SS2 for that matter...) and yet at the same time they find flaws in moments like this. it speaks volumes how strong of a bias people have against the character.

I also don't like how Gohan fans interpret SSJ2 Kid Gohan as his "true" character and how he regressed after that because he never acted like how was as a SSJ2 at the Cell Games after that point in the sotry. Gohan being a SSJ2 at the Cell Games was the first time he was OOC. You're not supposed to impressed by what has happened, you're supposed to be frightened as what Gohan could do next. The entire point of the transformation goes over so many fans heads.

You're exaggerating. I frequently participate in Gohan threads on this forum and nobody is saying the things that you're saying, in fact, what I mostly see are Gohan haters-

I absolutely despise Gohan

(Much like this one...)

who'll basically find any excuse to shit on the character. The type of fans you're describing might exist in places like Youtube but that's like going to a garbage dump and not expecting to see flies.

[Kuririn Fan]

Hate is a strong word, i just disliked the whole "passing the torch" bullshit, ii was forced and stupid and didnt felt right at all.

[90sDBZ]

I actually like Gohan for pretty much the whole series, although I'd still say his best moments were against Cell and Super Buu, and maybe some of the movies. I wouldn't want him acting like he did against Cell all the time, but it was appropriate for that part of the series, and was honestly kind of badass. And I think people also like Cell Games Gohan for his more serious exterior, rather than just his arrogant attitude. A good example is Movie 9, where he's still a badass, but gets right down to business in wasting the bad guys.

I don't see why we can't have it both ways. Why can't Gohan be a bookworm in his spare time, while still being a force to be reckoned with on the battlefield when it's required?

[Lord Beerus]

I keep seeing this argument come up but you're basically grasping at straws here, the moment isn't any more contrived than anything else in Dragonball. There doesn't need to be a relationship between 16 and Gohan for his death to have an impact. From an audience perspective we know 16 is kind and gentle and this makes us feel sadness and compassion for him. From Gohan's perspective he sees a life being snuffed out in front of him which is an unjust and cruel act. He feels compassion for 16 not only because of the speech (which is as much bonding as you need between the two) but also because he's the type of character that clearly cares for all living things, Android or not.

It amazes me how people can find all sorts of rationalisations for why Gohan shouldn't have mystic (or even SS2 for that matter...) and yet at the same time they find flaws in moments like this. it speaks volumes how strong of a bias people have against the character.

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy any of that. The Z-Fighters also were willing to throw their lives on the because they gave a shit about the everything and everyone on Earth. Remember Gohan's reaction after Piccolo died saving his life? That was emotional because Gohan at least got the chance to build a relationship with Piccolo to make the moment he died feel more relatable, genuine and powerful. Gohan was watching his family and friends he trained and grew up with getting beaten to death and it doesn't affect him other than making him gritting his teeth harder. Yet a random Android that Gohan doesn't know on any other level, other than he cares for all living beings on life, a viewpoint all of the Z-Fighters excluding Vegeta at that time also shared, and suddenly that makes Gohan snap and go over the edge? Nah. That's not good enough for me. I always feel that proper relationship needed to be built between the two characters to justify Gohan reacting the way he did when #16 was killed. It just helps the moment feel more raw and believable. Like when Goku became SSJ for the first time. To me, it just felt like Toriyama needed an excuse for Gohan to become a SSJ2 and he threw in that speech from #16 just so that the moment could happen. All we knew about #16 prior to moment is that kinda liked birds. That's it. Hell, didn't #16 state he would still kill Goku if they were successful in defeating Cell? So that whole "#16 cares about all living things" characteristic kinda feel even more contrived. It's just all one big, fat mess, in my opinion.

You're exaggerating. I frequently participate in Gohan threads on this forum and nobody is saying the things that you're saying, in fact, what I mostly see are Gohan haters.

It's not this forum in particular I'm talking about. It's an opinion I've seen many other different forums all over the internet for years.

[EXBadguy]

*long SSJ2 ain't justifiable rant*.

Maybe Gohan transforming cuz of 16 is contrived, but what about Gohan just hating seeing people die? Don't forget, he really hates fighting and killing whenever he's conscious and not angry. It's just more of Cell pushing more buttons.

[Doctor.]

He hates killing people, yet he killed one of Freeza's soldiers on Namek. Yeah, that makes sense.

[EXBadguy]

When he's conscious, he hates killing.