Dragon Ball Super ROF arc - Your thoughts?!

[coola]

Watched some bits, really disliked they gave Chi Chi Z level of bi.ch again, also, both in BOG and here, they really love to include over the top dramatic effects (Bulma getting slapped, Piccolo death, and now characters getting engulfed in flames as Earth explode)

[Ssgvegito30]

Rof arc started OK than after the tagoma/ginyu fight became pathetic lots of unnecessary gag scenes during the fight with goku & frieza the art and animation also wasn't on par the bgm sucked ass in most of the scenes, fight choreography sucked balls tohe only decent fight was in episode 26 the vegeta vs frieza fight was the best thing of Rof arc the only thing saved this arc was the way it ended I would rate this arc 5/10......

[Cetra]

I do not know why this saga had to exist. And while people keep ranting about Super 17, Super 17 at least had a decent final battle with Goku and 17 (at least I feel like that). I feel the Goku VS Freeza battle reflected much of how people for some reason feel about GT battles.

[FortuneSSJ]

Unlike BOG arc, which I think blew its Movie counterpart out the water, ROF arc was just a little better than the Movie and Toei didn't do everything they could do.

First off, let's start with my main issues with the Movie:
- No mention at all about Freeza's training.
- The cliche and awful Freeza's death
- vegeta vs Freeza couldn't bee any shorter.
- Bring Roshi to the frontlines and leave Yamcha behind.

First one - Freeza's training.

Now I know Freeza tortured Tagoma for 4 months, and in order to not kill him Freeza had to control his Ki, which led up to his power up.
He stating that he wanted to torture Goku's as much as possible before killing him was beautiful.

Much better than the movie. Its better than nothing but was it enough?! The answer is no.
I usually don't pay much attention to power levels, but I can't ignore the fact that Freeza went from SSJ Level to SSB level.

Freeza is a OP Mutant that bornt with all that power he had on Namek, without trainning once in his life. But that's not convicing enough. The 4 months time gap is also
questionable, but everything could be clarified if they just gave more details.

Examples:
- Freeza/Tagoma trained in a planet with high gravity.
- Freeza/Tagoma trained in a special place like the Time Chamber/Whis staff, and those 4 months in reality were much more than that.

Simple and perfectly acceptable. It would also help to justify Tagoma's power up.
It's incredible how these little details can make everything much better.

But like a said before, something is better than nothing. They at least bother give us explanation.


Second one - The cliche and awful Freeza's death

I'm not a Vegeta fanboy, but what happened in the Movie wasa dick move. Goku had his chance and he blew it.
Vegeta should get the honor and Freeza become his first major kill, how perfect it would be. If anything, they at least both kill him together.

But the best ending would be Freeza surviving. You don't revive a old villain just kill him rigth away, without do anything interesting with him. That's bad writting.
Hopefully this can still lead to two interesting things:
- Gohan will finally get his shit together, so he can be ready to protect his family next time.
- Freeza guy from U6 will be the rival that Goku was expecitng Freeza to be, if he wasn't to evil.


Third one - Vegeta vs Freeza

Surprisingly enough, much better than the Movie version. It was longer and consequently more satisfying. Should be a entire episode though.
Still, I take my hat off to Toei. I wasn't expecting this quality. Thank you.

Fourth one- Bring Roshi to the frontlines and leave Yamcha behind
I don't know what to say about this one.

Basically Toei kinda fixed two of my main issues, but didn't do nothing about the other two.


Overall, things that Super did better than the Movie:

- Freeza and Tagoma characters. Not even joking. Tagoma was a joke in the Movie. A character that was in the movie poster, died right away in the beginning... WTF?! He's so much better here. Its ridiculous. Its like in the Movie we only got a cameo. And Freeza, While I didn't have any problem with his portrayal in the Movie, Super Version makes his
Movie counterpart almost look like a saint. Freeza in Super couldn't be any better. Pure Savage!

- Goten and Trunks join the battlefield and finally interacted with Freeza. I've been waiting this for too long.

- Goku's/Vegeta's training and SSB foreshadowing. If there's something I'm loving in Super, is the writting. I'm a sucker for foreshadowing. One of my favourite writting devices.

- Champa/vados build up behind the scenes. New characters doing new stuff, do I need to say more?! We didn't have this villain build up since RRA arc with Commander red/General
Black. After that, Toriyama would always come up with new villains from nowhere. But not in Super!

- Tension. Like I said Freeza is in shape in Super. Not only bullied Krillin, but also killed Piccolo and tortured Gohan. All this tension, gave me Piccolo Daimao/Saiyan/Freeza
arc vibes, where I awaited Goku's arrival to turn the situation around.

- The tranformations. All of them. It happened in BOG arc, and now happened again in ROF. All the transformations were better than their Movie counterparts.

- Th ending. That's how you end a arc. The Movie version felt so rushed. I loved how Gohan gone hug his family and promised to go back to training. Trunks saying if Freeza ever
comes back, he will cut him two was brilliant. Once again Super strongest point is obvious. Whis/Beerus were hilarious and damn Goku/Vegeta became great bros.


Things that the Movie did better:

- Gohan was portrayed as the nerd he is, but not humiliated. Toei went too far in Super. There wass no need to all of that.
- Z Fighters vs Freeza soldiers had the perfect length. In Super it was too short.
- Goku vs Freeza was much better. In Super there is a lot of talk and its always showing other scenes, which makes hard to enjoy the fight.
- Bruce Lee One Inch Punch. Unbeatable!

Comparing soundtracks, ROF arc blows out the Movie. No contest. Sumitomo did a great job in BOG Movie, but he dropped the ball in this one.
Besides F song, Goku's Anger and Pledge of Z, the Movie didn't have anything memorable.

ROF arc in other hand:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kHtMyx ... 8&index=19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4pM9st ... B7R5EpNtZ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsGWcrB ... 8&index=21
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aH_GxUw ... B7R5EpNtZ8


Top Episodes:

Best Episodes: 18, 27
Worst Episodes: 23, 24

Pacing:

I feel like ROF arc was rushed and should have 4 more episodes:
- Two of them between Freeza's training and his arrival on earth.
- One more with Z Fighters vs Freeza Soldiers. Jaco would fight too.
- An entire episode with Vegeta vs Freeza.

I hope the best for Universe 6 arc. It's the first time since Toriyama came back, that he's writting with a TV series in mind. Hopefully nothing will feel rushed.

[Basaku]

Badly executed expansion of a poorly wirtten movie plot. Unless something pops about the Freeza-race guy in U6 team that retroactively makes the entire F arc idea mean something, it really seems like a big waste of time.

[ZombieVito]

I would add episode 22 on the best episodes pile. That episode quickly became one of my favorites of the entire Dragon Ball series.

[sintzu]

I do not know why this saga had to exist.

Vegeta getting the final battle and defeating a main villain is more then enough to justify it's existence.

[Basaku]

I do not know why this saga had to exist.

Vegeta getting the final battle and defeating a main villain is more then enough to justify it's existence.

But urhm, he didn't

[sintzu]

I do not know why this saga had to exist.

Vegeta getting the final battle and defeating a main villain is more then enough to justify it's existence.

But urhm, he didn't

He didn't kill him but he definitely defeated him.

[dbzfan7]

I do not know why this saga had to exist.

Vegeta getting the final battle and defeating a main villain is more then enough to justify it's existence.

But urhm, he didn't

Dude don't even start. That's an argument that went in the movie thread for some time back when F came out. Some people including myself believe he completely lost and botched himself horribly, as well as lamely beating up a weakened opponent that couldn't harm Goku anymore. Others believe he won before being killed by Freeza.

[Basaku]

He didn't kill him but he definitely defeated him.

And on the score-card the kill goes to Goku, complete with "thank you Goku you saved Earth again!" from Bulma and the rest... Trust me, I don't like it either but that's the mentality of Toei/Toriyama atm

Dude don't even start. That's an argument that went in the movie thread for some time back when F came out. Some people including myself believe he completely lost and botched himself horribly, as well as lamely beating up a weakened opponent that couldn't harm Goku anymore. Others believe he won before being killed by Freeza.

Until we get Cell-like defeat by a character not-named Goku, without "thank you Goku you did it all again, full credit!" then the storyline really doesn't grant other character a 'win' no matter how much we want it to be...

[ekrolo2]

A piece of total shit. Best thing about it is that this is the last of F we'll ever have to deal with. Took a goddamn year for its reign of terror to end but its finally over.

[sintzu]

Trust me, I don't like it either but that's the mentality of Toei/Toriyama atm

It doesn't bother me like the movie cause Freeza beat the hell out of Goku and put his plan into action before Goku could do anything so him getting the kill didn't feel like he got too much cause Vegeta actually got to fight and was the only one who beat Freeza unlike the movie.

[pacz360]

Literally one of the worst arc of the franchise! Seriously it was practically the super 17 arc of super. It was poor adaption of a shit movie that had no reason to exist whatsoever I thank god we're free from this shit

[Bullza]

The arc was only 12 episodes it could have used at least another 3 episodes.

The whole Tagoma/Ginyu thing was pretty pointless as well, I'd bet the only reason they even did that was to extend the fighting prior to Frieza getting involved. The people behind Super are obviously too cheap and talentless to animate a decent Z Fighters vs Frieza henchmen fight so they cut that short to have Tagoma's scenes instead.

[ZombieVito]

The arc was only 12 episodes it could have used at least another 3 episodes.

The whole Tagoma/Ginyu thing was pretty pointless as well, I'd bet the only reason they even did that was to extend the fighting prior to Freeza getting involved. The people behind Super are obviously too cheap and talentless to animate a decent Z Fighters vs Freeza henchmen fight so they cut that short to have Tagoma's scenes instead.

I really can't blame them with the budget they have. Besides the fight makes more sense in Super.

[DHM211]

Same as I thought of the BOG ark: Pretty much a vastly inferior(in terms of art,animation,music,visual effects, sound effect, etc...) retelling(and unnecessary altering) of a great movie and canon.
Honestly, The only thing I liked about Super so far is that it linked the BOG and ROF Super arcs together. However, that no way outweighs the negatives that plagued the rest of the two arcs. In fact, if the gap between the two movies bothers anyone, I would just recommend watching BOG, then Super episodes 15-18, then ROF.

I'm just hoping the Champa arc is better than these two. I'll probably like it more than these two anyway, since I haven't already seen a superior version of it(as opposed to the BOG AND ROF Super arcs).

[DragonBoxZTheMovies]

I said something similar on Twitter a couple of weeks ago, but I'll add to it here:
At the end of the day, stretching out a 90 minute movie, that was already thin on substance, into 15-odd episodes was never really going to work- unless they made some substantial additions. While they did make some changes, pretty much all of them ended up being inconsequential to the way the arc played out. Tagoma's larger role was a nice thought, but ultimately poor execution in the end. I could rant on and on about every little detail in this arc, but I'll save that for another time. What it comes down to, is that the original movies were written to be an hour and a half of fun and not a whole lot more. Making full story arcs out of them was a real stretch (literally!).

I did enjoy episode 18, though.

[SansrivaaL]

Dude don't even start. That's an argument that went in the movie thread for some time back when F came out. Some people including myself believe he completely lost and botched himself horribly, as well as lamely beating up a weakened opponent that couldn't harm Goku anymore. Others believe he won before being killed by Freeza.

Ah yes, those were the days, must have been a big disappointment for Vegeta fans since they were almost so sure Vegeta was gonna beat and kill Freeza. Still F is horrible despite how the outcome may have come out, U6 arc is the only saving grace for dragon ball now, because if its even worst than *F* then God help us all.

[Cetra]

I do not know why this saga had to exist.

Vegeta getting the final battle and defeating a main villain is more then enough to justify it's existence.

1. He did not get a final battle. Even Roshi had more of a fight. Or in Super maybe equally. But calling it a final battle just because it is by definition the last one ...
2. That is just what you think. Just bringing in Vegeta for the sake of bringing him in does not solve all problems and definitely is not enough justification for all people so F can exist.