Constructing the ULTIMATE Dragon Ball BGM collection

[Ryuman]

Hey all! Now, this has probably been a question that has been brought up every couple years or so, but I thought I'd ask away.

So, what exactly would it take to create the most complete collection of music for the series? Be it insert songs, image songs, themes or just plain old background music?
I'm talking Dragon Ball, through Z and into GT making sure all tracks possible be included. Though, in the case of GT, I guess it's all bit up in the air and crazy (With only the 10th anniversary movie soundtrack and whatnot to work with, unfortunately).
Maybe this question is more simple than I imagine, or perhaps it is ridiculously convoluted (As it usually is with this series). So..... what'cha got?

[Kojiro Sasaki]

For me, "ULTIMATE Dragon Ball BGM collection" will be something like this:

CD1 - Dragon Ball TV series BGM Part 1 (A, B, C, D, F, G, H, I, J, M1x)
CD2 - Dragon Ball TV series BGM Part 2 (M20's, M100's, M300's, M500's)
CD3 - Dragon Ball Theatrical Movies 1-3 (M200’s, M400’s and M600’s)
CD4 - Dragon Ball Z TV Series BGM (M700’s and M1700’s)
CD5 - Dragon Ball Z Theatrical Movies 1-3 (M800’s, M900’s and M1000’s)
CD6 - Dragon Ball Z Theatrical Movies 4-6 (M1100’s, M1200’s and M1300’s)
CD7 - Dragon Ball Z Theatrical Movies 7-9 (M1400’s, M1500’s and M1600’s)
CD8 - Dragon Ball Z Theatrical Movies 10-11 (M1800’s and M1900’s)
CD9 - Dragon Ball Z Theatrical Movies 12-13 (M2000’s and M2100’s)

Tracks placed chronologically (by numbers). All mixed in stereo with superb quality, as on "BGM Collection" (It has almost no dynamic range compression - probably the best audio release of 2000's in terms of quality). About vocal tracks: they were released bazillion times - now it's time for BGM.
In my opinion, this music is one of the greatest recordings in the history of audio engineering. It's a shame that some tracks are available only in anime series. Quality of optical track on photographic film is worse than Lo-Fi from early 50's. This music has to be fully released someday. Keeping such an well known epic masterpiece in the basement it's crime against culture.

[Duo]

This music has to be fully released someday. Keeping such an well known epic masterpiece in the basement it's crime against culture.

This. SOOOO this. The lack of recognition for this material physically pains me.

[Ryuman]

This music has to be fully released someday. Keeping such an well known epic masterpiece in the basement it's crime against culture.

This. SOOOO this. The lack of recognition for this material physically pains me.

Yes, I agree. However, Toei's poor storage of things has most likely led to many problems with a full release. Another problem could also be just plain remembering to include everything, as I imagine they'd skip over some pieces by pure accident.

[Kojiro Sasaki]

I'm 100% sure that Nippon Columbia still has original multitrack recordings. I asked them few weeks ago about "possibility to release full DB BGM" and "why some tracks were mixed in mono" - they answered that they will take my suggestions into consideration for their future releases. About mono tracks: When they produced music, two sets of masters were created - one in mono, second in stereo. But due to the fact that only mono masters were needed for TV, some of music pieces were mixed in mono only (series of pieces, to be exact). Probably there was no plans for soundtrack release at the time.

Secondly, I sent another bigger message in which i explained how epic is this music and how important is to release it fully . They answered that they will "charge my suggestion as a demand".

I think, that there is need to keep spamming at them. If they will see that this music is popular - maybe they will do something. In big corporations, only money counts. There was possibility to release half of music - there is possibility to release the rest of it. As i said in some topic before: One thing is certain - if we will be just sitting and crying - we will never see full release of this super epic masterpiece.

About aging of magnetic tapes - listen to the new remasters of Elvis or The Beatles

About "remembering to include everything" - they can always ask us for help

[kenisu3000]

This. SOOOO this. The lack of recognition for this material physically pains me.

You've no idea how satisfying it is to finally read my exact thoughts from others.

One thing is certain - if we will be just sitting and crying - we will never see full release of this super epic masterpiece.

Kojiro speaks the truth! That's really all we (or at least most of us) have been doing, all these years, is sitting and crying about the lack of satisfactory releases. For my part, I've wanted to email Columbia the whole time, but never known how exactly to go about it - plus there was sort of a psychological thing going on there, my thoughts that "oh, what's the point, they're not going to listen to just one measly fan". Well, it's time those thoughts ended.

[Ryuman]

This. SOOOO this. The lack of recognition for this material physically pains me.

You've no idea how satisfying it is to finally read my exact thoughts from others.

One thing is certain - if we will be just sitting and crying - we will never see full release of this super epic masterpiece.

Kojiro speaks the truth! That's really all we (or at least most of us) have been doing, all these years, is sitting and crying about the lack of satisfactory releases. For my part, I've wanted to email Columbia the whole time, but never known how exactly to go about it - plus there was sort of a psychological thing going on there, my thoughts that "oh, what's the point, they're not going to listen to just one measly fan". Well, it's time those thoughts ended.

Rejoice! Let us all march up to Columbia with money in-hand.

Nah, but seriously, I'm glad we've all made you feel like you're not the only one who thinks like this. As someone who's only been with the Japanese version for about a year (Wow, it feels so weird now....), I found one of the main things to catch my attention to be the amazing music. As time went on I got more and and more appreciative of it. I'd just like a nice way to build a collection from what has been released at the moment, or even better, somehow get a complete release.

Also, I'm not sure if Kojiro will mind me saying, but he sent me a PM showing a response he got from Nippon Columbia about a full release of the music and mono-only masters. I'll let him post it if he wants to.

[Kojiro Sasaki]

I'm sending this link and message to everyone who spoke something about BGM Most of them responded positively. My second message to Columbia was "charged as a demand", so if they will be getting 20 questions per month (It all depends on us - send this link to everyone you know ) - I see possibility that they will consider full release.

I'm thinking about sending big letter to Columbia/Toei and explaining exactly "What we want". Starting with: "every single piece must be present and mixed in stereo", ending with technical terms as for example: No dynamic range compression (It's big part of great sounding of this music). I prepared "catalog" of music pieces (series) which needs to be remixed. They are cheap - we have to make this as much easy for them as we can.

If someone is more interested in this case (BGM, Columbia, Holders of the rights, all this "sounding", dynamic compression and why music must be mixed in stereo) - PM me.
Something about "Loudness War": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ
If they will do such thing to DB BGM...

[Commander_Red]

Do you think they'd respond to a collection of signatures of people wanting such a release?

[Kojiro Sasaki]

If they will see that this music is popular - why not? It's all only about money.

[dbboxkaifan]

Unreleased soundtracks can be downloaded somewhere from the internet, of course not all of them are really worthy of having their own physical hard copy talking about the games' scores as for the series it definitely should.

Though, because of Kenji Yamamoto's scandal it wouldn't feature Battle Power Unlimited so in a way even if they released all of it, it still would be incomplete. Unless the buyer purchased an old out of print copy. Oh and for Kai music (Volume 4) better think of it as it never happened.

I'd really love to hear the instrumental of Gohan SSJ2's Kai clean without any noise from the episode's characters' voices or screams. Closest thing that exists is Kei17's version but it isn't perfect.

[Kojiro Sasaki]

We are concentrating mostly on BGM composed by Shunsuke Kikuchi for TV series and movies from 1986 to 1995 (including some other compositions recorded by orchestra at the time, arranged probably by Shunsuke Kikuchi).

Rips from Laserdisc have horrible quality. All tracks in mono, they were equalised and compressed for movies. Such an epic orchestral masterpiece must be presented in good quality stereo.

[linkdude20002001]

Basically, I want what Kojiro Sasaki described. I've yet to buy any of the BGM collections aside from the DB & DBZ Daizenshū. The releases are just too incomplete for me, and I'd prefer a more chronological order than the medleys we've been getting for all these years.

[El Diabeetus]

If an actual petition styled endeavour gets started, I'd gladly sign. As far as Kikuchi BGM goes, alk I own is the 3-Disc BGM collection. Not a bad collection considering it wasn't all too pricey.

Have we ever got the DB (Pre-Z) BGM properly released before?

[kenisu3000]

Have we ever got the DB (Pre-Z) BGM properly released before?

Not really. There are some 400+ BGM cues in DragonBall, and only something like 1/4 of that has been released. There was a vinyl back in 1986 (later re-released as a CD) that contained 12 medley tracks, although each medley consisted of crossfading the cues together (which means you can't get a perfectly clean rip if you want to separate them for your own playlist, as you'd be able to if they had placed a short blank space between each cue). This was the DragonBall Ongakushu - details seen here (scroll down). Then, several years later when the 5-disc Daizenshu set was produced, they carried these tracks over onto Disc 2 of that set, crossfading and all. Then they threw together an additional 13 medley tracks (without crossfading) for that disc, plus another 3 on Disc 5 for the movies. Phew! Does that make sense?

The really horrible thing about it is, if you listen to the Ongakushu tracks, they sound WAY better (if you can ignore the crossfading) and much more in-your-face than the rest of the Daizenshu box. They obviously used their best-sounding stereo masters for the '80s album. Of course, the fact that THAT album was produced when the series was absolutely brand new might have had something to do with the great sound...

[Kojiro Sasaki]

The really horrible thing about it is, if you listen to the Ongakushu tracks, they sound WAY better (if you can ignore the crossfading) and much more in-your-face than the rest of the Daizenshu box. They obviously used their best-sounding stereo masters for the '80s album. Of course, the fact that THAT album was produced when the series was absolutely brand new might have had something to do with the great sound...

Tracks on Ongakushū sounds way better because they are presented as they were recorded - in stereo. Orchestral music needs stereo presentation more than any other kind. I cannot fully explain it, because it is too complicated for my English
I will try my best: Basically, two channel recording gives many possibilities, such as:
1. Scene - you can localize every instrument.
2. Echoes, delays which creates illusion that sound is everywhere.

That's why we have two ears - it gives to thinking. When record is presented in mono, many important informations ale lost. It's even worse, when original material recorded in stereo is downmixed to mono. Diffraction and interference of various frequencies which are recorded in different phases gives total mess. That's why mono pieces on soundtrack releases sounds much worse.
So, in overall: Two speakers are delivering to our two ears +- the same information about sound as performance of the real orchestra. Mono playback isn't natural.

If original multitrack recordings still exist - there is no problem with making great-sounding stereo mixes. Look at how many music albums from 60's-80's are now released in digital formats.

About great sounding of old records - watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ

[screamingtrees]

Can we redirect the conversation back to how to contact Nippon Columbia/Toei/Akira Toriyama? I only mention the latter two because they've been the most present force in releasing new material for the series since...you know, Movie 13? Maybe they could have something to do with the release of a new soundtrack too, if prodded. The only contact I could find doing a quick, English language google search was Toei's twitter page... Kojiro, does one need to be able to speak Japanese to contact Nippon Columbia?

[DB1984]

Has it ever been established why Toei and Columbia refuse to release ALL of Kikuchi's DB/DBZ BGM on CD?

It can't be "from a business standpoint", I don't buy that excuse at all.

[Kojiro Sasaki]

Can we redirect the conversation back to how to contact Nippon Columbia/Toei/Akira Toriyama? I only mention the latter two because they've been the most present force in releasing new material for the series since...you know, Movie 13? Maybe they could have something to do with the release of a new soundtrack too, if prodded. The only contact I could find doing a quick, English language google search was Toei's twitter page... Kojiro, does one need to be able to speak Japanese to contact Nippon Columbia?

Toei Animation:
eng https://reg18.smp.ne.jp/regist/is?SMPFO ... 5a5b4831f0
jpn https://reg18.smp.ne.jp/regist/is?SMPFO ... 0f658aabed

Nippon Columbia
https://form.columbia.jp/company/ir/ (I used broken English and they responded)

As for now, I am working on the letter about BGM and Blu-ray release of the series. It looks like this:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

[DB1984]

Can we redirect the conversation back to how to contact Nippon Columbia/Toei/Akira Toriyama? I only mention the latter two because they've been the most present force in releasing new material for the series since...you know, Movie 13? Maybe they could have something to do with the release of a new soundtrack too, if prodded. The only contact I could find doing a quick, English language google search was Toei's twitter page... Kojiro, does one need to be able to speak Japanese to contact Nippon Columbia?

Toei Animation:
eng https://reg18.smp.ne.jp/regist/is?SMPFO ... 5a5b4831f0
jpn https://reg18.smp.ne.jp/regist/is?SMPFO ... 0f658aabed

Nippon Columbia
https://form.columbia.jp/company/ir/ (I used broken English and they responded)

As for now, I am working on the letter about BGM and Blu-ray release of the series. It looks like this:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

I wish you could enlarge these photos, so everyone can see them.