Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[ahill1]

Can I have numbers for these guys?

SSJ Trunks
-- 25th TB: 108,000,000,000
-- Post RoSaT: 150,000,000,000

SSJ Goten
-- 25th TB: 112,500,000,000
-- Post RoSaT: 150,000,000,000

Piccolo
-- Start of the Buu arc: 30,000,000,000
-- 25th TB: 30,000,000,000

Goten stronger than Trunks?

[Khin]

Since were discussing what form did Gohan used against Dabra in the other thread.Where do you guys put these characters at ?

SSJ Gohan :

Dabra :

Perfect Cell :

Spoiler:

SSJ Gohan : 3,600,000,000
-- ''Not angry enough'' SSJ2 : 5,400,000,000

Dabra : 5,200,000,000

Perfect Cell : 4,000,000,000

[DBZAOTA482]

Since were discussing what form did Gohan used against Dabra in the other thread.Where do you guys put these characters at ?

SSJ Gohan :

Dabra :

Perfect Cell :

Which Cell is it?

[Khin]

Which Cell is it?

Perfect Cell,not the ''Super'' Perfect one.

[DBZAOTA482]

Which Cell is it?

Perfect Cell,not the ''Super'' Perfect one.

Is it the Cell that fought Gohan?

[Khin]

Which Cell is it?

Perfect Cell,not the ''Super'' Perfect one.

Is it the Cell that fought Gohan?

Full Power.

[ZombieVito]

Since were discussing what form did Gohan used against Dabra in the other thread.Where do you guys put these characters at ?

SSJ Gohan : 3,100,000,000

Dabra : 5,600,000,000

Perfect Cell : 4,800,000,000

[Saiga]

Can I have numbers for these guys?

SSJ Trunks
-- Start of the Buu arc:
-- 25th TB:
-- Post RoSaT:

SSJ Goten
-- Start of the Buu arc:
-- 25th TB:
-- Post RoSaT:

Piccolo
-- Start of the Buu arc:
-- 25th TB:

I don't distinguish between Start of Boo / 25th TB for me. I don't think there was a massive room for growth in that month.

Goten - 1,500,000,000
Trunks - 1,550,000,000
Piccolo - 1,000,000,000

At the moment I think I may rate Goten and Trunks too low compared to the adult Saiyans (SS Goku being 4,000,000,000) and don't really have post-RoSaT figures because I don't see any noticeable improvement from them after that point.

[DanielSSJ]

Can I have numbers for these guys?

SS Trunks
-- Start of the Boo arc: 1,000,000,000
-- 25th TB: 1,300,000,000
-- Post RoSaT: 1,800,000,000

SS Goten
-- Start of the Boo arc: 900,000,000
-- 25th TB: 1,200,000,000
-- Post RoSaT: 1,800,000,000

Piccolo
-- Start of the Boo arc: 1,750,000,000
-- 25th TB: 1,800,000,000

And for context...
SS Goku: 4,500,000,000

SS Vegeta: 3,800,000,000

SS Gohan
-- Start of the Boo arc: 3,000,000,000
-- 25th TB: 3,600,000,000

[apex_pretador]

What gap do you guys have between Vegeta SSJ (Androids saga) and Trunks SSJ (Androids saga)?

vegeta is 120 % of trunks i.e. 20% higher.

IF vegeta is 6, trunks is 5. Vegeta can one-shot him with a galick gun or BBA.

This Gap decreases to about 5%-10% after 1st rosat, and ~0% after second rosat.

I think a 20% gap is way too much...


Chapter: 355 (DBZ 161), P8.3-4
Tenshinhan: “Th-this is the man who took down Freeza…And he was helpless before these androids…I’ll be frank…! No matter how strong Goku may be, he shouldn’t be that different from Trunks or Vegeta…”


Accroding to Tenshinhan, the three SSJ are on the same range of power.

I won't take tien's comment to face value. Given how manga implies that vegeta is significantly more powerful than trunks pre rosat, post rosat he's still more powerful but not significantly, and post 2nd rosat, he's equal to trunks.

The same guy was shitting himself at sick SS goku, and given how it is implied that Freeza is weaker than only super saiyans, not piccolo, and he sensed yadrat goku & SS future trunks 3 yrs back. Piccolo flat-out stated that FP goku >>> Sick goku.

Trunks was incredibly impressed by vegeta's performance against #18, and implied that he can't put anything even close to that against even future androids. Vegeta lol'd at the thought of trunks & piccolo facing these androids.

I also have trunks 25% higher than piccolo pre merging. Post merging, piccolo is freaking 60% higher than trunks and about 33% higher than vegeta/goku.

Can I have numbers for these guys?

SSJ Trunks
-- Start of the Buu arc: 580
-- 25th TB: 620
-- Post RoSaT: 640

SSJ Goten
-- Start of the Buu arc: 550 = cell jr
-- 25th TB: 600
-- Post RoSaT: 630

Piccolo
-- Start of the Buu arc: between 600 and 750
-- 25th TB: ~= SS gohan (25th TB) = 750

^^^^
in millions
and for reference , goku SS ~= 1050 million at 25th TB , and 800 million at cell games

.Where do you guys put these characters at ?

SSJ Gohan : 750

Dabra : 1300

Perfect Cell : 1200 The first being in the manga to break 1 billion barier, and exactly 10 times of fully powered freeza

Semi-SS2 gohan - 1200 million

In millions, and I have perfect cell exactly 10 times stronger than FP freeza, and kid buu around 9-10x cell.

[Khin]

I don't think we can use the same boost for piccolo & Nailccolo. Nail-piccolo in android arc was one million times stronger than Kami. I think the closer the powers, the bigger the boost.
Goku-gohan potara merging was implied to be about 2x boost. He was said to "MAY not need super saiyan where gohan was about 2-3 thousand times stronger than base goku, and kibitoshin seems like 2-3x boost.

Also, if you use 2x, then you must use it on BoZ piccolo, who was below 1000, which will result in below 2000 power level for son of kataz. Even better, use the 2x for DAIMAO and Kami. Daimao was like what? 200 in young age, and kami was close to 300 when he trained goku. I think at best, kami can be about 500 or so in his young age.
At best that would put him at 1400 in that case, around raditz level. I don't think that counts as being able to handle saiyans. Same for namek arc kamiccolo. I think 4x boost works better for saiyan & namek arcs.
(2600 + 300) x 4 = 11,600
(150,000 + 300) x 4 = 601,200
However, android arc is different case, due to nail's presence and power gap:
(100 M) x 2 = 200 M or wherever your numbers put him at.

Kaioshin was about 80x stronger than Kibito at best.So by using your logic.Namek Arc Piccolo and Kami who's the gap is more than 1,000 times and being a 2x boost will work as well.Guru states that Katatz's child shouldn't be defeated by a Saiyan and assume a Super Saiyan killed him.So Katatz's child should be way stronger than any regular Saiyan.Which range from around 1,000 to 30,000. Vegeta who's power level was around 30,000 didn't think he was a Super Saiyan until he received another zenkai.The strongest guy we got who is assumed to be a Super Saiyan is the 60,000 Goku that fought Recoome/Burta/Jheese.So Katatz's child should be around 50,000.

But nappa was never pushed to limits against Z fighters:

• Gohan - He got kicked around ONCE when he was off-guard. He just punched away the strongest blast from gohan at 2800 by a mere punch, and his hand only slightly stung.
• Piccolo - The strategist of U7 found him open to attacks when he's off-guard, and punched him when he was focused on someone else. Later, he uses almost all his ki in a last-ditch effort in a blast on nappa, and it barely burnt his back slightly. Got OH-KO'd by nappa.
• GOKU : At first, goku makes him look like fool, but later, nappa manages to get calm and serious, and get a close fight out of goku. He also worried him with his full-powered attack.

I hate this Nappa debate because how inconsistent his power is,but.

1. The ki blast that Piccolo fired to Nappa actually hurt him and make him mad.It should be noted that Nappa's can't raise nor lower his ki unlike the earthlings.2nd Form Freeza who was more than 2x stronger than Vegeta was unfazed by Vegeta's blast when he wasn't looking at him.If Nappa's 7,000 right off the bat.He should be able to do the same,but he didn't.So Piccolo being 2,500 and Nappa being 4,000 works fine.

2.Goku absolutely destroys Nappa and says he's nothing special.Why would he say that if Nappa is close to him ? Goku can sense ki,so he should know it.

3. Nappa was scared by Goku's 5,000 Battle Power.You might argue that Nappa thinks that Goku's ki is suppressed.But remember that Nappa who saw how Raditz was killed thought that the suppressed Battle Power for Piccolo,Vegeta and Gohan was their full power.

In all.Nappa was 4,000 against the Z Fighters and 1st half of his fight with Goku.But for some reason,he suddenly becomes in the same realm as Goku.Vegeta made a big deal about him being to control his power and brag it to Kewi so Nappa shouldn't be able to raise his ki.To clear this mess.I need to follow Toriyama's interview years ago.About saiyans getting rapidly stronger as they fight strong opponents.

[dbgtFO]

I hate this Nappa debate because how inconsistent his power is,but.

1. The ki blast that Piccolo fired to Nappa actually hurt him and make him mad.It should be noted that Nappa's can't raise nor lower his ki unlike the earthlings.

Of course he can, we see him power up like any other in the series. The fact that Vegeta's later comments imply they weren't changing their battle powers on Earth at all is a silly retcon, that has no bearing on what we actually saw in the Saiyan Arc. The whole concept is poorly explained and you're better off not trying to apply some limitation to Nappa that didn't exist originally and only comes about because with the advent of the new arc, anything prior is diminished and nerfed to make the new seem better.

2.Goku absolutely destroys Nappa and says he's nothing special.Why would he say that if Nappa is close to him ? Goku can sense ki,so he should know it.

Indeed he does, but he changes his opinion, once Nappa gets serious.

In all.Nappa was 4,000 against the Z Fighters and 1st half of his fight with Goku.But for some reason,he suddenly becomes in the same realm as Goku.Vegeta made a big deal about him being to control his power and brag it to Kewi so Nappa shouldn't be able to raise his ki.To clear this mess.I need to follow Toriyama's interview years ago.About saiyans getting rapidly stronger as they fight strong opponents.

Then Vegeta shouldn't have acted like he knew all along that Nappa could take Goku, if it's just newly acquired strength.

[Khin]

Of course he can, we see him power up like any other in the series. The fact that Vegeta's later comments imply they weren't changing their battle powers on Earth at all is a silly retcon, that has no bearing on what we actually saw in the Saiyan Arc. The whole concept is poorly explained and you're better off not trying to apply some limitation to Nappa that didn't exist originally and only comes about because with the advent of the new arc, anything prior is diminished and nerfed to make the new seem better.
- Indeed he does, but he changes his opinion, once Nappa gets serious.

- He can't.When he charge his ki,Tenshinhan only noted that the earth is trembling.No his ki got bigger whatsoever that is always present everytime someone is powering up.Vegeta states he learned to control his Ki after his battle on earth.And there's so many implication that says they can't change their ki at will.

• Chapter: 248 (DBZ 54), P14.2-5
  Context: More of Kui mistakenly thinking Vegeta’s power has declined.
  Kui: “Looks like you’ve gotten worse. With that battle power, you have no chance of winning.”
  Vegeta: “Did you call us rivals? Kukkukkuku…Well then, I’ll show you something…An interesting thing that I learned from the locals when I went to Earth…[ ] How to control my battle power!”

• Chapter: 214 (DBZ 20), P4.3-5
  Nappa: “981... 1,220... 1,083... Idiots! Do you really plan on defying us with that level of battle power...?!"
  Vegeta: “These people change their battle power in response to the fight. Those figures can't be relied upon any more.”

- Like i stated before.Nappa got stronger.And Goku's not a dumb guy who can't sense ki.

[apex_pretador]

Kaioshin was about 80x stronger than Kibito at best.So by using your logic.Namek Arc Piccolo and Kami who's the gap is more than 1,000 times and being a 2x boost will work as well.Guru states that Katatz's child shouldn't be defeated by a Saiyan and assume a Super Saiyan killed him.So Katatz's child should be way stronger than any regular Saiyan.Which range from around 1,000 to 30,000. Vegeta who's power level was around 30,000 didn't think he was a Super Saiyan until he received another zenkai.The strongest guy we got who is assumed to be a Super Saiyan is the 60,000 Goku that fought Recoome/Burta/Jheese.So Katatz's child should be around 50,000.

I'm not equating potara to remerging. Goku was million times strogner than satan, & it was implied that potara will not give him any noticeable boost.
Piccolo was million times stronger than kami, and he got over 2x boost.

Re-merging is better than potara IMO. Gohan was thousand times stronger than goku (base) and 2x boost was implied. A thousand times gap should give him 4x boost by similar logic, good enough to take out first form freeza, especially with his skill of a warrior namek.

On son of katatz, if we give him the same boost as vegetto got, then he comes out to be stronger than any saiyan not called a super saiyan. (only on daimao and kami, not ma jr & Kami)

1. The ki blast that Piccolo fired to Nappa actually hurt him and make him mad.It should be noted that Nappa's can't raise nor lower his ki unlike the earthlings.2nd Form Freeza who was more than 2x stronger than Vegeta was unfazed by Vegeta's blast when he wasn't looking at him.If Nappa's 7,000 right off the bat.He should be able to do the same,but he didn't.So Piccolo being 2,500 and Nappa being 4,000 works fine.

I don't think nappa was ever 4000. He thought that others could help 5000+ goku to beat him, so he must be closer to 6000 than 7000.
The ki blast did no damage at all. It just barely hurt him, more like a bad irritation. Nappa also tanked a full powered kikoho from tien. He punched away full powered (Masenko?) from gohan, with his arm just stung a little.
Freeza has more durable skin than saiyans, so the blast from vegeta didn't burn his back a little.
NOTE: I ALSO HAVE HIM 3x VEGETA (400,000 TO 1,200,000

2.Goku absolutely destroys Nappa and says he's nothing special.Why would he say that if Nappa is close to him ? Goku can sense ki,so he should know it.

When nappa wasn't fighting properly with his mind. When nappa got calmed down, he got better performance. Also, goku vs "mad" nappa is something possible with a 6000 vs 8000 easily.

3. Nappa was scared by Goku's 5,000 Battle Power.You might argue that Nappa thinks that Goku's ki is suppressed.But remember that Nappa who saw how Raditz was killed thought that the suppressed Battle Power for Piccolo,Vegeta and Gohan was their full power.

Nappa was "shocked" at 5000 goku just like vegeta was at 8000 goku, unless you believe that vegeta was scared of 8000 as well. Nappa & vegeta thought that three guys below 3000 can help a 5000+ goku to win, which isn't possible against vegeta. So, it is implied that they could help goku against nappa to win maybe. So, nappa is somewhat superior to 5000.

In all.Nappa was 4,000 against the Z Fighters and 1st half of his fight with Goku.But for some reason,he suddenly becomes in the same realm as Goku.Vegeta made a big deal about him being to control his power and brag it to Kewi so Nappa shouldn't be able to raise his ki.To clear this mess.I need to follow Toriyama's interview years ago.About saiyans getting rapidly stronger as they fight strong opponents.

The only "low showing" of nappa was getting his back burnt a bit by the last ditch effort of the strongest member of the team, and getting irritated, while he was not even trying in the entire fight and wasn't serious.

In first half fight against goku, he got stomped, but it doesn't need to be a 2x gap because a 25% gap works fine. Even in second half against goku, he only worried him with his best attack, like cui worried vegeta ("See there - lord freeza"
"My speed increased as well, I dodged it")

[Khin]

I'm not equating potara to remerging. Goku was million times strogner than satan, & it was implied that potara will not give him any noticeable boost.
Piccolo was million times stronger than kami, and he got over 2x boost.

Re-merging is better than potara IMO. Gohan was thousand times stronger than goku (base) and 2x boost was implied. A thousand times gap should give him 4x boost by similar logic, good enough to take out first form freeza, especially with his skill of a warrior namek.

On son of katatz, if we give him the same boost as vegetto got, then he comes out to be stronger than any saiyan not called a super saiyan. (only on daimao and kami, not ma jr & Kami)

What are you trying to say here ? What's the difference between the two.Does my theory contradict your theory ?

- I don't think nappa was ever 4000. He thought that others could help 5000+ goku to beat him, so he must be closer to 6000 than 7000.
The ki blast did no damage at all. It just barely hurt him, more like a bad irritation. Nappa also tanked a full powered kikoho from tien. He punched away full powered (Masenko?) from gohan, with his arm just stung a little.

No.Nappa clearly shitted his pants when he heard the power level.Vegeta was aware that Goku's 5,000 BP is not his true power so it makes sense for him to be cautious.While it was never shown that Nappa is.Vegeta only warned Nappa that Goku will turn the tables if arrives after Nappa was shown to be scared of the Power Level.And why does tanking the Kikoho a good feat ? All was implied that the kikoho managed to scare Nappa a little.And Nappa having smoke in his hand after swatting Gohan's 2,800 BP really shows the gap between the two is not absurdly large.Unless you think 60,000 BP Goku's hands will stung if he swat the 40,000 BP Recoome,Jheese,Burta.

Freeza has more durable skin than saiyans, so the blast from vegeta didn't burn his back a little.

When was this stated ? Saiyans in general have a very tough body.Kid Goku who was only about twice stronger than an average human can take a gun bullet and broke axe with his head.

When nappa wasn't fighting properly with his mind. When nappa got calmed down, he got better performance. Also, goku vs "mad" nappa is something possible with a 6000 vs 8000 easily.

That's a 25% gap.And that's way too huge.That's bigger than the gap between Monster Zarbon and pre zenkai Vegeta.

Nappa was "shocked" at 5000 goku just like vegeta was at 8000 goku, unless you believe that vegeta was scared of 8000 as well. Nappa & vegeta thought that three guys below 3000 can help a 5000+ goku to win, which isn't possible against vegeta. So, it is implied that they could help goku against nappa to win maybe. So, nappa is somewhat superior to 5000.

Posted my point above for this.

The only "low showing" of nappa was getting his back burnt a bit by the last ditch effort of the strongest member of the team, and getting irritated, while he was not even trying in the entire fight and wasn't serious.

In first half fight against goku, he got stomped, but it doesn't need to be a 2x gap because a 25% gap works fine.

He didn't get irritated.He got hurt.His expression says it all.Goku says Nappa is nothing special.That explains the power gap between them.Nappa can't be 6,000/7,000 right off the bat.

Goku : 8,100

Nappa : 4,000
-- Calmed Down : 7,000

[dbgtFO]

- He can't.When he charge his ki,Tenshinhan only noted that the earth is trembling.No his ki got bigger whatsoever that is always present everytime someone is powering up.Vegeta states he learned to control his Ki after his battle on earth.And there's so many implication that says they can't change their ki at will.

You remembered Tenshinhan's line, but not Piccolo's?

Chapter: 216 (DBZ 22), P12.2, P13.2-6
Context: after Kuririn’s ki blast doesn’t faze Nappa or Vegeta
Tenshinhan: “The ground!!! The ground’s shaking!!!”
Chaozu: “Ten!!! My powers don’t work!!!”
Piccolo: “I never thought it would be so much!!!”

That's not even going into the fact we see Nappa visually power up with aura and lightning and all.

They change their ki just fine. Everyone starts out believing a full power strike from Krillin is enough to defeat them, but both tank that shit and power up even more. Even Goku first thought Vegeta would be a piece of cake, until the little runt blew up Nappa, demonstrating his power and later on too.
We even have Vegeta charging his Galick Gun like Goku charges his Kamehameha and it's very hard to believe that wouldn't make his battle power rise above 18,000, like it should, when he's doing the exact same thing Goku and Piccolo demonstrated against Raditz and Gohan did against Nappa.

Raditz is actually the only one, who is not shown to power up, via ki blasts or normally, but Nappa and Vegeta definitely did.

- Like i stated before.Nappa got stronger.And Goku's not a dumb guy who can't sense ki.

But how exactly does Vegeta know Nappa got stronger? He says Nappa could take Goku, if he calmed down, thus leading to Nappa powering up again. It just means that he wasn't fully powered up in round 1 against Goku, thus Goku can conclude round 1 Nappa is nothing special, whereas it's not the same case with calm Nappa.

[Khin]

That's not even going into the fact we see Nappa visually power up with aura and lightning and all.

What does lighting and aura have to do with anything ? Recoome does the same thing and he was never implied to be able to do it.And Piccolo's line could be interpreted as he doesn't expect them to be strong.

A major plot point on Namek Arc was that Vegeta learned how to control his ki on earth.

Chapter: 248 (DBZ 54), P14.2-5
Context: More of Kui mistakenly thinking Vegeta’s power has declined.
Kui: “Looks like you’ve gotten worse. With that battle power, you have no chance of winning.”
Vegeta: “Did you call us rivals? Kukkukkuku…Well then, I’ll show you something…An interesting thing that I learned from the locals when I went to Earth…[ ] How to control my battle power!”

They change their ki just fine. Everyone starts out believing a full power strike from Krillin is enough to defeat them, but both tank that shit and power up even more. Even Goku first thought Vegeta would be a piece of cake, until the little runt blew up Nappa, demonstrating his power and later on too.

This is really just the same as Vegeta thinking he was able to do some serious damage to 2nd Form Freeza even though he's way weaker than him.And no one made a comment that Nappa and Vegeta's ki had risen up.

We even have Vegeta charging his Galick Gun like Goku charges his Kamehameha and it's very hard to believe that wouldn't make his battle power rise above 18,000, like it should, when he's doing the exact same thing Goku and Piccolo demonstrated against Raditz and Gohan did against Nappa.

Recoome does the same thing and was never implied to be able to control his power.And when Goku fired his kamehameha.He was already strained,that's why he can't push the kameameha enough to overpower Vegeta forcing him to go x4.


Raditz is actually the only one, who is not shown to power up, via ki blasts or normally, but Nappa and Vegeta definitely did.

But how exactly does Vegeta know Nappa got stronger? He says Nappa could take Goku, if he calmed down, thus leading to Nappa powering up again. It just means that he wasn't fully powered up in round 1 against Goku, thus Goku can conclude round 1 Nappa is nothing special, whereas it's not the same case with calm Nappa.

Then why would Goku said that Nappa is nothing special ? I already posted my point on my Nappa can't change his ki..

[Draconic]

Maybe the saiyans could raise their battle power to a peak, but can't lower it and hide it. They don't supress their power, it is just their natural one, but, if fighting with a clear mind they can concentrate and raise it. So Nappa was 4000 while fighting the humans, then 7000 at his maximum vs Goku. Then Vegeta, who was always more collected than Nappa, could use his max 18000 power level. And that's why Cui is impressed by Vegeta on Namek, because he knew he can't decrease his power level, but just increase it to his max 18000. When Vegeta proved he had achieved a level higher than that and supressed it at will, Cui was shocked.

[Khin]

Maybe the saiyans could raise their battle power to a peak, but can't lower it and hide it. They don't supress their power, it is just their natural one, but, if fighting with a clear mind they can concentrate and raise it. So Nappa was 4000 while fighting the humans, then 7000 at his maximum vs Goku. Then Vegeta, who was always more collected than Nappa, could use his max 18000 power level. And that's why Cui is impressed by Vegeta on Namek, because he knew he can't decrease his power level, but just increase it to his max 18000. When Vegeta proved he had achieved a level higher than that and supressed it at will, Cui was shocked.

This is a good theory.What also comes to my mind was that Nappa probably learned how to control ki after he fought the humans.The same as how Vegeta learned it after he fought Goku.

On the other hand.Any feedbacks for these numbers ?

Spoiler:

Vegeta [Arrivial on Namek] : 15,000
-- Full Power : 24,000
-- Post Zenkai : 28,750

[Kewi who have no idea Vegeta knew how to control his ki thought Vegeta got worse than before.So his suppressed state should be weaker than his Saiyan Arc self.And about Post Zenkai Vegeta.I know you would say Vegeta was 30,000 after zenkai.But it was only stated that his Power Level risen up close to 30,000.Unless of course,you follow the guidebooks.]

Chapter: 275 (DBZ 81), P4.2
Context: Vegeta powers up to fight Recoome.
Jheese: "Hey, hey, Vegeta's battle power has risen up close to 20,000!" [original line]
Jheese: "Hey, hey, Vegeta's battle power has risen up close to 30,000!" [Kanzenban line

Kewi : 18,000
Dodoria : 22,000

Zarbon : 23,000
-- Transformed : 28,750.

Recoome : 38,000
Burta : 38,000
Jheese : 40,000

[apex_pretador]

I'm not equating potara to remerging. Goku was million times strogner than satan, & it was implied that potara will not give him any noticeable boost.
Piccolo was million times stronger than kami, and he got over 2x boost.

Re-merging is better than potara IMO. Gohan was thousand times stronger than goku (base) and 2x boost was implied. A thousand times gap should give him 4x boost by similar logic, good enough to take out first form freeza, especially with his skill of a warrior namek.

On son of katatz, if we give him the same boost as vegetto got, then he comes out to be stronger than any saiyan not called a super saiyan. (only on daimao and kami, not ma jr & Kami)

What are you trying to say here ? What's the difference between the two.Does my theory contradict your theory ?

I'm just saying that we must not apply the same 2x boost to pre-nail piccolo & pre-kami piccolo for remerging because pre-nail piccolo can't be that close to first form freeza.

(Also, nappa discussion is boring)

On the other hand.Where do you guys put these people at ?

Vegeta [Arrivial on Namek] : 16,000 Cui thought he was a joke to his 18,000 and vegeta implied that pre-saiyan saga vegeta was weaker than cui's 18,000
-- Full Power : 24000 obviously
-- Post Zenkai : 29,600

Kewi : 18,200
Dodoria : 21,000 , he didn't feel surpassed till vegeta rose above 22,000

Zarbon : 22,600 , significantly above dodoria, good enough to put a fight against vegeta but ultimately die
-- Transformed : 29,500 , weaker than post zenkai vegeta, but very close.

Recoome : 39,800
Burta : 39,800
Jheese : 39,800