Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[HeroR]

Power scaling aside, I am not sure why people here think Freeza is only as strong as one of the Buu forms based. Beerus was able to beat Super Saiyan 3 Goku in two hits. When Goku lost his god power, he took several hits from Beerus in the movie and bust an energy ball with his bare hands in Super. To say that Goku's base is suddenly only as strong as Super Saiyan 3 makes no sense since Super Saiyan 3 powered Goku would be killed Beerus. Even assuming that base Goku is only an one of the god scale, that one is far above anyone from Buu Saga.

As for turning god powers on and off, nothing like that has been shown. It seems to me that Goku kept the power of godhood, but didn't keep the god ki, which is why everyone felt Goku when he lost his Super Saiyan God form, but was still able to mix it with Beerus. Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is Goku merging his god ki with Super Saiyan, creating a new form of Super Saiyan God, which is why his power can't be felt.

Seems like you guys are trying to make things needlessly complicated.

[Chiki]

It seems to me that Goku kept the power of godhood, but didn't keep the god ki,

Power of godhood = god ki. There is no difference between them, so saying that he kept one but lost the other makes no sense.

[Hugo Boss]

I don't think Freeza's final form really matters now. He never had a golden form beforehand. He was surpassed by Goku in Namek, a long story has passed since then, and in 4 months he was able to surpass Goku. Even with decades ahead of more special training and Super Saiyan God, Goku was still behind him. That's very impressive. The difference in this arc is that while Goku focused on gaining power in his base form, Freeza relied on his golden form. That might explain why their warm-up level was more or less even.

[buutenks]

Whis states base saiyans are far below beerus. Also considering this statement cqme after bog arc, goku keeping up with beerus was more of a temporary thing

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

It seems to me that Goku kept the power of godhood, but didn't keep the god ki,

Power of godhood = god ki. There is no difference between them, so saying that he kept one but lost the other makes no sense.

Unless I'm wrong, didn't Goku still have the "power of godhood" when he fought Beerus as a Super Saiyan, but not necessarily full-blown godly ki, as the rest of the Dragon Team could sense his ki after he lost the Super Saiyan God transformation?

[Bullza]

Training doesn't account for it. Frieza got much, much more out of training than Goku did, so the gap should have still existed. Frieza is not only a bigger prodigy than Goku, he's also never trained in his life. So the gap should have been much, much bigger, when in reality, Goku has the edge. The answer to this must be god ki. There's just no way around it.

There's always the possibility that Goku did get more out of it, he trained for much longer with a stronger sparring partner and with a master who is the strongest there is.

Like I said if Piccolo got stronger than Frieza then how farfetched can it be for Goku and Vegeta to have as well?

If God Ki was involved then it must be a small portion whereas it's all brought out for SSJB.

The two base theory was just that, it was only thought up in the first place to try and make sense for why Piccolo was seemingly God tier and that's about it. However now we know that Super Saiyan Blue is God tier, Super Saiyan ain't nowhere close to God tier and base is 1/50th of that.

So it's evident now that Piccolo isn't remotely close to God tier or Botamo, Magetta, Frost or Cabba. So there isn't much need for a two base theory which was pushing it anyway because it's just overcomplicating matters in a kids show.

[apex_pretador]

So question, how are we all rectifying the statement that not only will Goku and Vegeta not surpass Beerus but they won't even close to it when we already established in BOG that Goku had gotten to a level of over half Beerus power. If you want to use super content then how do you rectify that with Beerus Enraged Vegeta comment of 10%?

I don't see the statement putting vegeta near 10% beerus, do you?
The statement doesn't even necessarily mean that he had to use 10% of his power to beat vegeta, does it?

• He says he hasn't used 10% of his power in a long time.
• He might've meant that he just hasn't used 10% in a long time.
• He might've powered up to 10% AFTER he defeated vegeta.
• He might've become interested in vegeta seeing his power spike up many times and had powered up just for fun, without ever needing it.

[namekiansaiyan]

Why are you people still saying God Ki can be turned on or off, there is still no evidence, how long until you understand that.
Just accept that characters are stronger than others or close to some. It is just ridiculous how many of you are making stuff up, I thought we don't mislead people here or do you guys want to this website to replicate all the lies on a clickbait website.
Do not tell me that you are making theories, becacuse a lot of people on this website are taking these theories as fact.

Forget about the God Ki and just see Super Saiyan and Saiyan Super Blue as two different transfromation and that Super Saiyan Blue is basically Super Saiyan 2. If you do that everyone's power level falls easily in place.

The most difficult one for everyone is Piccolo he is close to Final Form Frost in my opinion, forget Goku's idiotic words and use the action that happened.

[Lord Beerus]

Why are you people still saying God Ki can be turned on or off, there is still no evidence, how long until you understand that.

Except in last weeks episode Vegeta turns into a SSJB while he was a SSJ. That pretty much confirms Goku and Vegeta can tap into God Ki at will, and it also kills the whole Base/SSJ = SSJG theory. You either have to believe that or that the gap in strength between SSJG and SSJB is huge.

[TheMikado]

So question, how are we all rectifying the statement that not only will Goku and Vegeta not surpass Beerus but they won't even close to it when we already established in BOG that Goku had gotten to a level of over half Beerus power. If you want to use super content then how do you rectify that with Beerus Enraged Vegeta comment of 10%?

I don't see the statement putting vegeta near 10% beerus, do you?
The statement doesn't even necessarily mean that he had to use 10% of his power to beat vegeta, does it?

• He says he hasn't used 10% of his power in a long time.
• He might've meant that he just hasn't used 10% in a long time.
• He might've powered up to 10% AFTER he defeated vegeta.
• He might've become interested in vegeta seeing his power spike up many times and had powered up just for fun, without ever needing it.

Why even say or mention it then??? Every time we have had a villain or hero state a percentage or number we take them at face value. Why is this time suddenly different?

[Birusu16]

The tapping into god power at will theory gained more ground after the last episode to be honest. I mean Vegeta as a SSJ couldn't one-shot Cabba (even when Cabba was in base) yet as a SSJB he easily one-shot Cabba as a SSJ, so unless you're of the belief that SSJB is massively stronger than SSJG then Goku and Vegeta can tap into their god power at will.

[TheMikado]

The tapping into god power at will theory gained more ground after the last episode to be honest. I mean Vegeta as a SSJ couldn't one-shot Cabba (even when Cabba was in base) yet as a SSJB he easily one-shot Cabba as a SSJ, so unless you're of the belief that SSJB is massively stronger than SSJG then Goku and Vegeta can tap into their god power at will.

This is all fine and dandy, but why go SSB at all if you were specifically trying to hid it from Hit? Why not just go SSG-Base? That should have been more than enough to handle Cabba unless Cabba was at God Tier levels.

[Birusu16]

The tapping into god power at will theory gained more ground after the last episode to be honest. I mean Vegeta as a SSJ couldn't one-shot Cabba (even when Cabba was in base) yet as a SSJB he easily one-shot Cabba as a SSJ, so unless you're of the belief that SSJB is massively stronger than SSJG then Goku and Vegeta can tap into their god power at will.

This is all fine and dandy, but why go SSB at all if you were specifically trying to hid it from Hit? Why not just go SSG-Base? That should have been more than enough to handle Cabba unless Cabba was at God Tier levels.

That's made abundantly clear in the episode. Vegeta even states why. It was to show Cabba the type of power he could potentially gain if he continued training.

[namekiansaiyan]

Why are you people still saying God Ki can be turned on or off, there is still no evidence, how long until you understand that.

Except in last weeks episode Vegeta turns into a SSJB while he was a SSJ. That pretty much confirms Goku and Vegeta can tap into God Ki at will, and it also kills the whole Base/SSJ = SSJG theory. You either have to believe that or that the gap in strength between SSJG and SSJB is huge.

Why Can't there be a huge difference. God ki allows you to have the power of a God and because you have that power you can obtain a new transformation that is Super Saiyan Blue and are still able able to go normal Super Saiyan. So a Saiyan with God Ki transformation order is:
Base
Super Saiyan
Super Saiyan Blue

Every transformation has God Ki but Super Saiyan Blue has more than others.

Can Beerus amd Champa turn off God Ki?

[buutenks]

Judging from the last episode if vegeta or goku uses god ki and go ssj their hair turn blue and gain a massive boost in power.

Also i see no reason why goku or vegeta can use god k in their base form, there is no evidance to support that. Even when goku fought freeza, everyone was able to sense goku's ki. Saying well why cant goku go ssg in base form, he cannot, if he could he would have done so. The fact that he never did means that to tap into the ssg power he must use super saiyan.

Plus goku even exaplins what ssj blue is, it is a ssj with the power of a super saiyan god.but nothing is mentioned of this saiyan beyond god thing.

Then we also have whis' statement that base saiyans are vastly inferior to beerus.

So to me its clear as day that base goku is much weaker than ssj and ssj blue is in a whole different realm of power compared to ssj.

[LightBing]

Why are you people still saying God Ki can be turned on or off, there is still no evidence, how long until you understand that.

Except in last weeks episode Vegeta turns into a SSJB while he was a SSJ. That pretty much confirms Goku and Vegeta can tap into God Ki at will, and it also kills the whole Base/SSJ = SSJG theory. You either have to believe that or that the gap in strength between SSJG and SSJB is huge.

Why Can't there be a huge difference. God ki allows you to have the power of a God and because you have that power you can obtain a new transformation that is Super Saiyan Blue and are still able able to go normal Super Saiyan. So a Saiyan with God Ki transformation order is:
Base
Super Saiyan
Super Saiyan Blue

Every transformation has God Ki but Super Saiyan Blue has more than others.

Can Beerus amd Champa turn off God Ki?

You had an identical post some time ago, were I pointed out with a quote, how Goku hadn't God Ki in base during the RoF arc. You even kinda of agreed. Goku and Vegeta never; I repeat never, have been shown to have God Ki in Base or SSJ. The one who lacks evidence is you.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I don't understand why people keep talking about battle powers in Super being a mess & about retcons.

• We know that Whis is a 15, Beerus is a 10, and SSG Goku is a 6. Beerus was fighting at 70%, so it was a 7 vs a 6, and Goku couldn't scratch him, so yes, at full power, Beerus really is a mountain in front of Goku.
• We know that Goku's power only decreased slightly when he went from SSG back to base.
• We know that SS made him as strong as SSG instead of making x50 stronger.
• We know from the video-games that Goku can turn off the SSG power in his base form (why would they create a transformation that doesn't exist for video-games?!), and that in his base form with SSG powers, FnF Goku has surpassed SSG Goku from BoG.
• We know that SSB is a form that surpasses SSG, but still doesn't bring Goku & Vegeta above Beerus, though if they were to fight together, they could rival him.
• We know that while the difference is big, there isn't a monstrous difference between SSB & base with SSG power, otherwise base Vegeta, who was weaker than tired Golden Freeza, wouldn't have been able to deflect Freeza's full-power ki blast like that.
• We saw in Champa arc that SS makes Goku & Vegeta x50 stronger once again, and that Piccolo is stronger than base Goku & Vegeta, but weaker than Majin Boo, which proves that the people that made the video-games are not crazy & Goku and Vegeta really can turn the SSG power on & off.
• We know that Goku & Vegeta can no longer make huge gains through training, which is why they are still weaker than Beerus.

So no, Piccolo, Botamo, Frost, Magetta, Cabba, base/SS Goku, and base/SS Vegeta in the tournament are not god tier, and we've seen that Goku & Vegeta can turn on & off the SSG power in their base forms.

[Chiki]

here's always the possibility that Goku did get more out of it, he trained for much longer with a stronger sparring partner and with a master who is the strongest there is.

Like I said if Piccolo got stronger than Frieza then how farfetched can it be for Goku and Vegeta to have as well?

If God Ki was involved then it must be a small portion whereas it's all brought out for SSJB.

The two base theory was just that, it was only thought up in the first place to try and make sense for why Piccolo was seemingly God tier and that's about it. However now we know that Super Saiyan Blue is God tier, Super Saiyan ain't nowhere close to God tier and base is 1/50th of that.

So it's evident now that Piccolo isn't remotely close to God tier or Botamo, Magetta, Frost or Cabba. So there isn't much need for a two base theory which was pushing it anyway because it's just overcomplicating matters in a kids show.

Actually this has already been stated in both RoF and Super to be false. Frieza came as soon as he got his Golden form (Vegeta says so), that's why he lost to Goku to begin with. He did most of his training in his first or Final form. So Frieza did get a lot more out of training than Goku ever did.

According to my theory, Piccolo did not get stronger than Frieza though. That's what I like the most about my theory.

We do need the two base theory. If base is 1/50th of SS tier which isn't anywhere near close to God tier, how was Base post-God Goku >>>>>>>>. SSJ3 Goku in BoG? That makes no sense.

Why are you people still saying God Ki can be turned on or off, there is still no evidence, how long until you understand that.

Yes there is, I've given plenty of evidence in favor of my arguments, so why don't you address them?

Also i see no reason why goku or vegeta can use god k in their base form, there is no evidance to support that

Yes there is. How were they able to compete with Final Form Frieza without god ki?

Goku and Vegeta never; I repeat never, have been shown to have God Ki in Base or SSJ

Yes they have, they were able to compete with Final Form Frieza.

You guys were all fine and dandy about Goku being able to use god ki in Base when RoF first came out. Why not now?

[Lord Beerus]

[*]We know from the video-games that Goku can turn off the SSG power in his base form (why would they create a transformation that doesn't exist for video-games?!), and that in his base form with SSG powers, FnF Goku has surpassed SSG Goku from BoG.

I would very careful in regard to using the video games to fill the blanks in regards to what happens in the main story. I mean, if we're going to take what happens in the video games literally, then Bardock really did become a Super Saiyan and GT takes place in an alternate timeline.

[pacz360]

You had an identical post some time ago, were I pointed out with a quote, how Goku hadn't God Ki in base during the RoF arc. You even kinda of agreed. Goku and Vegeta never; I repeat never, have been shown to have God Ki in Base or SSJ. The one who lacks evidence is you.

goku was sensed by the others during his fight with beerus the second time see no reason to think base goku let alone his ssj form of that time being inferior to anyone in buu saga let alone from previous sagas.