Thoughts on Cell arc

[ABED]

I don't think the divisions are horrible, they aren't arcs, but it helps me when I think of the series to think of broken down the way funimation does.

I also do see these big arcs having multiple parts, but not the Funamation way.

Sure, like the Ginyu Force is a mini arc. It's part of a bigger arc, but still has a clear beginning, middle, and end.

They are ridiculous. Trunks and the Androids all lead up to Cell as the "big bad". Treating Trunks and the Androids as their own "sagas" when there's no way they can be self-contained is an idiotic way to divide up the show.

Not what I was getting at. Besides, an arc doesn't have to be self contained, and can lead up to something bigger. A number of arcs lead directly into the next one.

[Kuririn Fan]

I don't think the divisions are horrible, they aren't arcs, but it helps me when I think of the series to think of broken down the way funimation does.

I also do see these big arcs having multiple parts, but not the Funamation way.

Sure, like the Ginyu Force is a mini arc. It's part of a bigger arc, but still has a clear beginning, middle, and end.

Yes, and Uranai Baba is a part of the Red Ribbon Army Arc. It's clearly 1 arc, all the 10 arcs have clear beginnings, middles and endings.

[ABED]

Yes, and Uranai Baba is a part of the Red Ribbon Army Arc. It's clearly 1 arc, all the 10 arcs have clear beginnings, middles and endings.

But it's not really resolving the Red Ribbon story, it's resolving the issue of bringing Bora back to life. Baba has ZERO connection to the Red Ribbon Army.

[z_cherub]

Yes, and Uranai Baba is a part of the Red Ribbon Army Arc. It's clearly 1 arc, all the 10 arcs have clear beginnings, middles and endings.

But it's not really resolving the Red Ribbon story, it's resolving the issue of bringing Bora back to life. Baba has ZERO connection to the Red Ribbon Army.

By that logic, every episode could be an "arc" or "saga" as long as something, no matter how minute, is "resolved".

[ABED]

Yes, and Uranai Baba is a part of the Red Ribbon Army Arc. It's clearly 1 arc, all the 10 arcs have clear beginnings, middles and endings.

But it's not really resolving the Red Ribbon story, it's resolving the issue of bringing Bora back to life. Baba has ZERO connection to the Red Ribbon Army.

By that logic, every episode could be an "arc" or "saga" as long as something, no matter how minute, is "resolved".

No the main narrative is over. Goku destroyed the Red Ribbon Army. Baba's tournament doesn't qualify as a denouement. It resolves A thread from that arc, but not the main one. Baba has NOTHING to do with the RRA. I'm not sure how you reached the conclusion that by my logic, every episode is an arc.

[Gaffer Tape]

Sure, like the Ginyu Force is a mini arc. It's part of a bigger arc, but still has a clear beginning, middle, and end.

In general, I can get behind you on the idea that arcs can be further subdivided into different beats or sections or whatever. I can't really get behind the Ginyu division, though, at least not how FUNimation did it. If it had started at the arrival of the Ginyu, the part of the story where they become a threat, and Vegeta teams up with the good guys, that would make sense. But since FUNimation only made that division where season 3 began, it means the "Ginyu Saga" begins somewhere in the middle of Goku's fight with Jheese and Butta. So if you consider "Ginyu" to be referring to the team, it makes no sense because two of them are already out of commission. If you consider "Ginyu" to be referring only to the specific character, it still makes no sense because it starts in the middle of a fight he's not involved with.

[Kuririn Fan]

Yes, and Uranai Baba is a part of the Red Ribbon Army Arc. It's clearly 1 arc, all the 10 arcs have clear beginnings, middles and endings.

But it's not really resolving the Red Ribbon story, it's resolving the issue of bringing Bora back to life. Baba has ZERO connection to the Red Ribbon Army.

Just call it Second Hunt for the Dbs and problem solved. Or, watch senpai Gaffer Tape/ Mistare Fusion and get enlightened.

[ABED]

Sure, like the Ginyu Force is a mini arc. It's part of a bigger arc, but still has a clear beginning, middle, and end.

In general, I can get behind you on the idea that arcs can be further subdivided into different beats or sections or whatever. I can't really get behind the Ginyu division, though, at least not how FUNimation did it. If it had started at the arrival of the Ginyu, the part of the story where they become a threat, and Vegeta teams up with the good guys, that would make sense. But since FUNimation only made that division where season 3 began, it means the "Ginyu Saga" begins somewhere in the middle of Goku's fight with Jheese and Butta. So if you consider "Ginyu" to be referring to the team, it makes no sense because two of them are already out of commission. If you consider "Ginyu" to be referring only to the specific character, it still makes no sense because it starts in the middle of a fight he's not involved with.

I didn't mean it that way. Clearly the Ginyu "sub arc" occured before FUNi's designation.

[Kuririn Fan]

Sure, like the Ginyu Force is a mini arc. It's part of a bigger arc, but still has a clear beginning, middle, and end.

In general, I can get behind you on the idea that arcs can be further subdivided into different beats or sections or whatever. I can't really get behind the Ginyu division, though, at least not how FUNimation did it. If it had started at the arrival of the Ginyu, the part of the story where they become a threat, and Vegeta teams up with the good guys, that would make sense. But since FUNimation only made that division where season 3 began, it means the "Ginyu Saga" begins somewhere in the middle of Goku's fight with Jheese and Butta. So if you consider "Ginyu" to be referring to the team, it makes no sense because two of them are already out of commission. If you consider "Ginyu" to be referring only to the specific character, it still makes no sense because it starts in the middle of a fight he's not involved with.

Freeza arc could be divided into 3 parts.
1. Cui - Dodoria - Zarbon manhunt (242-270)
2. Ginyu Tokusentai (271-290)
3. Freeza (291-329)
RRA could be divided into 4 parts, Cell into 3 and Boo into 3.
Funimation did it stupidly.

[Captain Strawberry]

The Cell arc is really when the saga starts picking up

You mean it started to get good with Cell's introduction?
Saga is a whole thing - Dragon Ball saga and arc is a part of that saga. Funimation fucked up once again and you said it weirdly.

well yeah. When Cell shows up

I don't think the Cell is his own saga...? I thought it's like for example The Artificial Human Saga and since a saga is a long story of a hero then an arc would be part of the saga so the Cell arc.

[Kuririn Fan]

The Cell arc is really when the saga starts picking up

You mean it started to get good with Cell's introduction?
Saga is a whole thing - Dragon Ball saga and arc is a part of that saga. Funimation fucked up once again and you said it weirdly.

well yeah. When Cell shows up

I don't think the Cell is his own saga...? I thought it's like for example The Artificial Human Saga and since a saga is a long story of a hero then an arc would be part of the saga so the Cell arc.

I have no idea what youre saying...

[ABED]

To take an example of what I'm talking about, I'll use Supernatural as an example. It's first 5 seasons are all one big story, but there are smaller arcs within that. The first two seasons were about the Winchesters hunting the thing that killed their mother. The consequences directly lead into the next big bad, and so did the consequences from that big bad. I would still consider those arcs distinct.

[Kuririn Fan]

To take an example of what I'm talking about, I'll use Supernatural as an example. It's first 5 seasons are all one big story, but there are smaller arcs within that. The first two seasons were about the Winchesters hunting the thing that killed their mother. The consequences directly lead into the next big bad, and so did the consequences from that big bad. I would still consider those arcs distinct.

Dragon Ball Manga has 10 arcs.

[ABED]

To take an example of what I'm talking about, I'll use Supernatural as an example. It's first 5 seasons are all one big story, but there are smaller arcs within that. The first two seasons were about the Winchesters hunting the thing that killed their mother. The consequences directly lead into the next big bad, and so did the consequences from that big bad. I would still consider those arcs distinct.

Dragon Ball Manga has 10 arcs.

That's your view and I'm fine with that.

[Captain Strawberry]

To take an example of what I'm talking about, I'll use Supernatural as an example. It's first 5 seasons are all one big story, but there are smaller arcs within that. The first two seasons were about the Winchesters hunting the thing that killed their mother. The consequences directly lead into the next big bad, and so did the consequences from that big bad. I would still consider those arcs distinct.

Dragon Ball Manga has 10 arcs.

That's your view and I'm fine with that.

That was mature

[ABED]

Yay me, I'm 30 and I'm just now growing up

[Draconic]

Yes, and Uranai Baba is a part of the Red Ribbon Army Arc. It's clearly 1 arc, all the 10 arcs have clear beginnings, middles and endings.

But it's not really resolving the Red Ribbon story, it's resolving the issue of bringing Bora back to life. Baba has ZERO connection to the Red Ribbon Army.

Just call it Second Hunt for the Dbs and problem solved. Or, watch senpai Gaffer Tape/ Mistare Fusion and get enlightened.

I'd much rather call it the Grandpa Gohan arc, since the whole point of it is Goku looking for the 4-Star Ball (which he literally thinks is his grandpa), which in turn gets him in the way of the RRA which leads to Bora's death, which leads to the Baba tournament which is resolved with Goku finally reunited with Gohan.

[Gorou]

I think people often persists way too on this alleged "excessive stupidity" of the characters. I already talked about, this is the only arc, together with the Boo's arc, where such decisions are made motivated by the author. And no one has yet been able to give me a compelling explanation. On the other hand Mirai Trunks is perhaps the character that acting with greater discernment in all the manga. I think some have misread, or if they remember very little, and i don't understand what that means "aged horribly"..is still appreciated today. Paradoxically, I almost feel that there is some sort of "feud" between those who prefer Boo's arch and those who prefer this. I guess that I'm the only one to love them both.

All in all, it has its obvious flaws:-non-clash between Cell and Gohan (best in the anime);
-the entire final part of the Cell Games since Cell vomits 18 (forcing and objective and undeniable inconsistencies);
-lack of clarity about the apocalyptic future of Trunks;
-wasted potential on many factors (Togashi made me realize how it could have been even more fantastic a character like Cell).

Then, all'arcs have inconsistencies here and there, because Toriyama is a particularly not much careless author and, often, very forgetful.

However, I think that deserve all the popularity that holds, and the merits are: Mirai Trunks, Satan, Cell (specially imperfect),cyborg's humanity (this deserve more deepening) unpredictability and numerous twists and turns, Cell vs Goku, ndroid 16, partial use of nearly all the characters in the cast.

3. When Vegeta wanted to let Cell absorb #18, Trunks could've easily swooped in and destroyed #18 within seconds. Yes, it would be a somewhat cruel thing to do, but it would stop Cell from absorbing her, and he'd be easy pickings for the Saiyans. And to think Trunks was among the Z Warriors who had the most common sense.

This only in the anime, where Trunks has had several good opportunities to do this. In the manga he did not even the time to hit Cell: first Vegeta pushes him away with a kick, and after Cell blinds him with taiyoken. All this happens in a moment. In the manga, the arch have much more sense.

[TheUltimateVegito]

This arc is a freakin' masterpiece I'd say. Best arc of all time in my book. Here are various posts I've made about why it's the best:

Review
Why Super Saiyan isn't the End
Why it's the perfect ending
Duality Between Goku and Dr. Gero

EDIT:

Cell Character Analysis
Trunks Character Analysis
Why Gohan was fantasic writing.

Oh and there's not much plotholes in the saga if you ask me. The timeline stuff was clever and great writing too, especially when you think about how the timelines were connected.

[Gorou]

@ TheUltimateVegito
I find your analysis very good, especially the one on far too mistreated Gohan; bind very well to the events of the manga. Anyway, I'm still convinced that the story had even more untapped potential, beginning with the final battle between Cell and Gohan. Toei's transposition stretched the ritm and this make it seem certain situations more foolish, but I must admit that it has been able to drastically improve that battle.