Do you wish the multiplier system was never introduced?

[ABED]

know for sure it had to be at least 41x base since it was at least twice as strong as 50% Freeza who was about equal to the Kaioken x20.

I don't think that's how it works. Goku at his strongest may have been whatever number PL was given, but before he turned SSJ, he was drained and hurt. I imagine that it took him all of his power just to keep himself standing.

[Skar]

know for sure it had to be at least 41x base since it was at least twice as strong as 50% Freeza who was about equal to the Kaioken x20.

I don't think that's how it works. Goku at his strongest may have been whatever number PL was given, but before he turned SSJ, he was drained and hurt. I imagine that it took him all of his power just to keep himself standing.

That's true but if Goku was almost completely drained of energy then 50x almost nothing is still pretty low. I don't know how SSJ was supposed to work since he was barely able to stand after the Spirit Bomb but didn't seem to have any trouble maintaining SSJ throughout the battle. Are you saying that it's not a multiplier or that the transformation restored some of his base energy?

[ABED]

know for sure it had to be at least 41x base since it was at least twice as strong as 50% Freeza who was about equal to the Kaioken x20.

I don't think that's how it works. Goku at his strongest may have been whatever number PL was given, but before he turned SSJ, he was drained and hurt. I imagine that it took him all of his power just to keep himself standing.

That's true but if Goku was almost completely drained of energy then 50x almost nothing is still pretty low. I don't know how SSJ was supposed to work since he was barely able to stand after the Spirit Bomb but didn't seem to have any trouble maintaining SSJ throughout the battle. Are you saying that it's not a multiplier or that the transformation restored some of his base energy?

I think you are confused. Yes, multiplying his low power by 50 wouldn't have amounted to much because of how drained he was, hence what I wrote. I don't think it's a multiplier, I simply think that just unlocked a lot of power and may have even had some sort of healing effect on him.

[Skar]

I think you are confused. Yes, multiplying his low power by 50 wouldn't have amounted to much because of how drained he was, hence what I wrote. I don't think it's a multiplier, I simply think that just unlocked a lot of power and may have even had some sort of healing effect on him.

Oh sorry I see what you're saying now. I know some fans like to think of it as a set boost or tier that brings their power up to a certain level. When I said it had to be at least 41x base I didn't mean it necessarily had to be a multiplier just that whatever the boost was had to be at least greater than a hypothetical 40x Kaioken. It could be a set boost of +100 million or something else. I don't mind either way since the manga never specified and my point was that I think it would've been better off if no numbers were used at all.

[ABED]

With battle powers, sure, but the Kaio-ken thing is perfectly fine. One of the things I like about it is that the boosts are transient and they have a cost.

[Desassina]

They could be multipliers with different effects in order to be sustained more or less than the others. Here's an example:

SSJ - Power: 50 | Strength: 10 | Agility: 10 | Energy: 2

These are the hypothetical multipliers for their stats, and their relationship is explained by power as the end result of strength and agility multiplied by each other, and energy divided. Now, compare them to the gains of Kaioken x20, and its energy multiplier:

Kaioken x20 - Power: 20 | Strength: 20 | Agility: 20 | Energy: 20

Goku's stats get multiplied by the same amount, which includes energy consumption being much higher, but leading to a faster and stronger attack. It's just one example, and what matters is the meaning that we assign both the transformation and the technique, but the multipliers (50x, 100x, etc.) are here to stay.

[Draconic]

In my opinion, the moment power levels were introduced it was bound that part of the fanbase will come up with fan numbers for all later arcs, even after they were dropped. The fact that someone took time to at least provide a basis to start from shouldn't be condemned. What should is when people find problems with the actual shows the moment the writers decide not to adhere to them. If you don't find that part of the series intresting, you can always avoid it, but to people who do enjoy it I think it's fine to give them something to base it on. Hell, I'm not too big on the stuff myself, but sometimes (as I have recently in the Super section) it's fun to disscus such things.

[Bulma's Foot Masseur]

By the way, I like your username . I imagine Bulma has as assistant who does that for her in her office.

Haha, thanks! I like to think Jaco does it, whether he wants to or not.

[Kunzait_83]

In my opinion, the moment power levels were introduced it was bound that part of the fanbase will come up with fan numbers for all later arcs, even after they were dropped.

For the most part, prior to the Saban/FUNimation dub at least, almost NOBODY in the English speaking fan community gave the slightest ounce of a crap about Battle Powers/Power Levels. Not at all or in any way. It just WASN'T any kind of a hot button topic whatsoever, and at the very most I can count (from distant memory mind you) maybe one or two major discussions online where they were any kind of a relevant factor at all: and even then it was only in a fairly small, small way. If anything, I think that the reason why those discussions still stick out in my mind all these years later is due to how UNCOMMON the topic was at the time.

It wasn't until the dub came along, brought in newer (and much younger) fans, started more or less right smack in the most Battle Power-centric storyline of the series and then just reran that arc over and over and over and over again for several years ad nauseam: THAT'S when all of a sudden, seemingly overnight, "Power Levels" suddenly became this huge, huge, inescapable part of Dragon Ball discussions.

Had the series' English dub gone through all of the original series first beforehand, and furthermore if it didn't constantly circle its wagons around the Saiya-jin and early Freeza arcs so repeatedly for so long (thus hammering this Power Levels/numbers concept into the heads of its audience repeatedly and incessantly for so long), I can almost guarantee that Power Levels would be nowhere even VAGUELY as close to as big of a part of fandom as they've become. I certainly do not think that the concept is somehow so compelling and central to the series that it's now overly-gigantic role in fan culture and discussion was any kind of an "inevitability".

In the grand scheme of the overall series, they just aren't a factor for very long, nor is their impact really all that significant. All they ultimately end up doing is giving our overmatched heroes somewhat of a slight edge to use against their enemies for about a story arc and a half or so. Its the smallest, most detail-oriented of a plot device for what amounts to maybe like 15/20% of the whole series.

Short answer: if the series' release history in the U.S. wasn't so screwed up, its very likely that almost no one would care that much about Power Levels. That the fanbase today does, that it STILL cares about them all these years later is only but one of many testaments to how fucked up the series' entire presentation in the mainstream U.S. ultimately was.

[DBZAOTA482]

No, that'd confuse things.